i hear the dec is proposing an oct 1st start to the 2012 season

[RangerClay]

This plan looks good for the southern tier.  But look at the next page it really stinks for us northern bow hunters.  As it stands now, if you don't have a bow tag leftover from last year you have to wait until the kids and poachers are done shooting up the woods before we can go bow hunting on a weekend.  > 

[Doc]

Honestly though, if you had put your foot down right off the bat and told the guy that he could not be bringing a bunch of people with him, you probably would not have had the issues.

Yeah, I was young and trusting back then....lol. Even though I did have ample warning from my father's experiences with his property. Once the situation gets out of control on the initial small scale, it escalates and begins to involve people you have never met and/or have no rules setting communications with. Also, there are all kinds of people who feel that just because they received permission once that that is a life-long invite and even when rules change there is no line of communication other than posted signs. This guy that was setting up the drive in front of my house was never really directly invited out and even at that I hadn't seen in several years. And even if he really believed he had some kind of unspoken life-long permission to hunt here and some kind of implied permission to bring carfuls of hunters onto my property, I still don't understand what made him think it was alright to set up a drive right in front of my house, especially without checking in at the house first.

Since then, I find it much less of a hassle to limit the invitees to only those closely screened individuals that I have experience with. Even at that, there are still enough people hunting that acreage so that the hunter density is about at the maximum that I feel is safe and manageable. That doesn't make people that I refuse any happier, but that is just the way it has to be. It may very well happen that they go away muttering about selfishness and deer hoarding and any other negative thing that they may be thinking, but that's only because they don't know the history behind those posted signs and that refusal. And somehow, I don't really believe that I am alone in that history. If my experiences seem a bit much, you should hear some of the horror stories that I have heard from farmers over the years. Cut fences, open livestock gates, rutted up laneways and even rutted up and destroyed crops, garbage bags full of trash, etc., etc. You get the idea. It really is a shame that the bad ones can have such a lasting negative effect for the good ones, but that is just the unfortunate way it usually works out. Somebody is always stuck in the position of trying to maintain control, and in the case of hunting it usually turns out to be the landowner.

[skully]

There giving us oct 1st so we dont cry about early mls and youth hunt in the middle of oct.  I sayforget that. I dont need to be in the woods that early in exchange for that.

[WNYBuckHunter]

There giving us oct 1st so we dont cry about early mls and youth hunt in the middle of oct.  I sayforget that. I dont need to be in the woods that early in exchange for that.

So 7 or 8 days later you want to be in the woods? If you dont want to hunt that early, nobody is going to force you to be in the woods.

[skully]

I wont. Because its not going to happen.

[hunter]

I thought the early mls was always right before gun for a reason, that being once you start shooting up the woods there goes the neighborhood for archers. I don't object to a youth season but if bow is going to be open for Columbus Day weekend that seems like a big one to devote just for youths. A regular weekend like the first one would seem more appropriate. I mean it's alot easier for a kid to bang a Mon. off than an adult who works.

[WNYBuckHunter]

If they took the last week of bow and gave it to gun hunters, what kind of stink would be made over that? Thats pretty much the best week to be in the woods for bowhunters.

skully, isnt that what they said about crossbows becoming legalized? We will have to wait and see what happens, but I see the possibility of the early ML season going through as pretty good. Dont get me wrong, ideally, I dont want it to happen, but Im not going to put on a pair of rose colored glasses and pretend that it couldnt or wouldnt happen. 

[Doc]

Someone on this forum once said something to the effect of guns during the gun part of the season and bows during the bow part of the season. That seems like a lot better thing than jumping back and forth from bow to both gun and bow, to bow, to gun, the back to both bow and gun. Doesn't that all sound just a bit goofey? It actually sounds like they are slowly trying to evolve the bow season into a general, anything goes season by getting us used to and accepting some more gun/bow seasons. What's the real agenda here?

At times, I get the impression that some people and even the DEC have an issue with bow hunting and bow hunters and would like to arrange just about everything that they can to maximize harrassment of bowhunters. Sometimes all this nonsense really makes you wonder.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Someone on this forum once said something to the effect of guns during the gun part of the season and bows during the bow part of the season. That seems like a lot better thing than jumping back and forth from bow to both gun and bow, to bow, to gun, the back to both bow and gun. Doesn't that all sound just a bit goofey? It actually sounds like they are slowly trying to evolve the bow season into a general, anything goes season by getting us used to and accepting some more gun/bow seasons. What's the real agenda here?

At times, I get the impression that some people and even the DEC have an issue with bow hunting and bow hunters and would like to arrange just about everything that they can to maximize harrassment of bowhunters. Sometimes all this nonsense really makes you wonder.

I agree that its pretty goofy, and Id rather not see the early ML happen. The youth season I can see. I dont see them trying to turn bow season into a gun season though. 4 days that are currently closed isnt the end of the world.

[erussell]

With the current direction the DEC seems to be taking with trying to control the deer herds with less hunters every yr I would not suprise me one bit if they were trying to make a use what weapon you want season. When primitive bow and the late primitive muzzleloader seasons were implemented there were few deer and fewer bow hunters to make a dent in the populations. As the Farm lands dissapeared and the reforestation of the southern zone began the deer populations exploded so compounds were allowed and inlines. Now that the population of deer are at an all time high ( or so we are lead to beleive) and the hunter recruitment is at an all time low( or so we are lead to beleive ), I wouldn't be suprised if you didn't see an all weapons season. The gun season has historically always been the population control season with bow and muzzleloader being the season to get a few more deer to reach the DEC's magic number of a population that is sustainable. With lower hunter numbers and higher deer populations there is no longer a need for bow and muzzleloader seasons why not just make it three month's to fill your alloted tags? Besides there would be a general riot and probably a few linchings 

[Doc]

I am getting more and more convinced that the DEC really is working toward more productive seasons at any cost. I also believe that bowseasons are being viewed by the DEC as a very inefficient waste of prime hunting time. I believe that they are trying to manipulate the nature of bowhunting to change that.