.45 Load

[pitweiler]

I decided that occasionally, in certain areas I hunt, I'm going to only take my 45 so I can carry more camera gear. Right now I'm loaded with 230gr Golden Saber that I recorded at 800fps from my pistol. I also have some 230gr PDX1, which is a bonded bullet, that I recorded at 825fps from my pistol. I'm also thinking about 200 or 230r XTP at +P velocity, and 230gr Federal HST. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

 

Thanks. 

Edited October 4, 2018 by pitweiler

[Rattler]

Stay away from hollow points.  You need penetration on deer.  A friend of mine use to hunt with his .45 ACP using some 200 gr jacketed soft points.  He usually kept his shots under 25 yards too.  None of his rounds ever went completely through the deer, but did get into the boiler room without fail.

 

[rob-c]

Google 45 acp  hunting rounds, you’ll find a bunch of em. Don’t use self defense rounds to hunt with ..

[ny hunter]

I would use s solid.. no hollow points...

[pitweiler]

When I google that I find plenty of folks using regular JHPs to hunt deer. I killed one with a 230gr Hydra Shok . Shot it quartering away at 7yds. Bullet didn't exit;  from point of entry it would have needed to penetrate at least 20 inches to exit. It folded the deer right up. I was thinking a bonded 230gr would have a better chance to exit.

[Pygmy]

I admit to having no experience hunting with handguns,  but my experience loading for my rifles I would lean toward the bonded bullet, to get some expansion and hold together, but not OVEREXPAND  so much as to impede penetration, as a hollow point might..

[rob-c]

I like to treat my hand gun hunting like archery I want 2 holes, so I want a bullet that will go through and through . Handguns do not have the velocity like a rifle to cause the shock that a 2000+ FPS rifle bullet has. Can and have deer been killed with Hollow points from pistols yep sure have, but I want to know if things get mucked up by the deer whirling at the shot or I just make a  bad shot , I have  a bullet that will help make up for said circumstances..  

[pitweiler]

What do you use? What kind of handgun?

[rob-c]

I use a super red hawk 44 mag with a 9.5 inch barrel , I load my own  with 21 grains of 2400 under a 260 grain Keith  style hard cast bullet  . I have chronographed this load and I get a consistent  high 1390’s to  low 1400FPS.i used to shoot 240 grain xtp’s ,never recovered a bullet and the deer were always dead after the shot. but after doing some research and reading about guys hitting shoulders with hollow points and it not going well . I decided to go to hard cast  bullets that would penetrate  no matter what . Also switched my wife over to a 158 grain Keith style bullet with a large meplat.. 

[airedale]

Handgun hunting with traditional handguns, the available bullets and calibers in my mind is quite a bit like archery hunting. Get close and shoot when you have a shot you have confidence in making.

There was a time I did quite a bit of hunting with handguns, the two cartridges I used for large game were the 357 mag and the 44 mag. I took several Deer and a couple of Boar mostly with the 44 mag, my favorite bullet was and still is the old Speer half jacket HP, the 44s were 225 gr and the 357s were 146 gr. I hunted with these bullets for several reasons, first there were several gun writers of the day that used them, publishing glowing performance reports on game in their magazine articles, and second they were extremely accurate along with getting good velocity in my S&W and Colt revolvers. My limited experience with these bullets concurred pretty much spot on with what was written about them, they shot good and killed good.

Below is a photo of two Speer 44 225 gr HP bullets recovered from a decent sized Boar much bigger than any Deer I have ever shot, both shots were hits behind the front shoulder at around 40 yards. They went clear through to the opposite side and were found mushroomed nicely under the tough hide, the Boar by the way stumbled around and keeled over within a few feet of the first shot, the second shot was probably not needed but taken just to be sure.

Now the 45 ACP is no 44 mag but I have a 44 Special revolver which ballistically  similar to a 45 ACP, I have handloaded those same Speer 225s to use in that gun. That being said I would not hesitate using that 44 Special to draw down on a Deer that presented a good clear shot and that was close enough.

Todays bullets have come a long ways since my days of fanatical handgun hunting, they hold together much better and expand well. In recent years I have used Hornady XTP hollow points in my black powder rifles for several Deer kills and I could not ask for better performance, I see no reason why they will not work in a handgun loaded properly.

Al

Edited October 4, 2018 by airedale

[pitweiler]

I was thinking about using a 220gr Hornady Critical Duty FTX. I'll probably get 920-950fps and the penetration/expansion of those bullets will be good.

[philoshop]

Like stated earlier, it's a lot like bowhunting, It's up close and personal. 30 yards is pushing the envelope with even a 44 Mag, even though I've taken woodchucks at over 100 yards with it. A .45 ACP is a deadly weapon close in. Keep the range under 20 yards and hit what you aim at it won't likely matter what bullet you're using. Try to push that distance and it won't likely matter what bullet you're using either.

Bottom line is that if you're going to hunt deer with a handgun, make damned sure you're good with that handgun. The nerves and the jitters will crush you when the moment comes along. On the other hand, it's an amazing rush to take a deer with a handgun..

[pitweiler]

I was looking at it the same way. I learned my lesson about over confidence. I am very good with a handgun. I can hit effectively at 60 yards with iron sights. That makes my max range with adrenaline dump 25 yards give or take. The areas I'm thinking of don't offer much over a 60 yard shot anyways. 

[philoshop]

Good thinking. Most of my handgun kills on deer have been in swamps and places like overgrown orchards, literally crawling along the ground,  where a long gun is just a nuisance. The handgun is perfect for that stuff.The deer generally have powder burns on their hides from the shot. ;-) 10 or 12 feet is about average. A .44 Mag at that range? It doesn't really matter what the bullet or load is. And even if the deer get back up they sure don't go far.

I really miss that kind of stuff. It was exciting. Oh, to be young and healthy again.

[rob-c]

1 hour ago, philoshop said:

Like stated earlier, it's a lot like bowhunting, It's up close and personal. 30 yards is pushing the envelope with even a 44 Mag, even though I've taken woodchucks at over 100 yards with it. A .45 ACP is a deadly weapon close in. Keep the range under 20 yards and hit what you aim at it won't likely matter what bullet you're using. Try to push that distance and it won't likely matter what bullet you're using either.

Bottom line is that if you're going to hunt deer with a handgun, make damned sure you're good with that handgun. The nerves and the jitters will crush you when the moment comes along. On the other hand, it's an amazing rush to take a deer with a handgun..

With the correct bullet a 100 yard shot is very doable with a 44 mag. As long as the shooter does their part.. 

[philoshop]

And Fred Bear used to kill animals at over 100 yards with his longbow and cedar arrows. Doesn't mean it's a good thing that Joe Weekend hunter should try.

Like I said, I've killed woodchucks at well over 100 yards with my .44 and often freehand. They're a lot smaller than a deer, BTW . But it doesn't mean I would ever try it with a deer. I'm not sure what your point is. Can it be done? Sure. Should it even be tried by most people? Absolutely not, unless you just don't care about the game animal. Carry on.

[rob-c]

All I was stating is that handguns do not have to be a close encounter firearms. First you know nothing about me and how well I can or can not shoot.second  shooting a deer with a bow at 100 yards is like apples to oranges comparison to firearms. Second you kinda  contradicted yourself,  you assume  I don’t care about the deer  shooting at that range, but you had no problem shooting woodchucks at 100 yards . yes they are vermin but it’s still taking a life. You are / were good enough to hit woodchucks at that range why couldn’t I be good enough to make a clean kill on a deer ?  Not trying to start anything but your comments are a little hostile. 

[philoshop]

My apologies if I came across as hostile. Not my intention. But I don't like seeing people give the impression that a .44 mag handgun is  a 100 yard deer gun. Even in extremely skilled hands with the perfect load and bullet, it's not, and never will be a long range weapon. Don't pretend that it is. And don't give young people on this site the impression that it is. That's what pi**es me off.

It's a close-in gun with a hell of a lot of knockdown power. Push the limit and you'll be tracking a deer for a very long time. Do you really want  to argue with me about this?

[rob-c]

26 minutes ago, philoshop said:

My apologies if I came across as hostile. Not my intention. But I don't like seeing people give the impression that a .44 mag handgun is  a 100 yard deer gun. Even in extremely skilled hands with the perfect load and bullet, it's not, and never will be a long range weapon. Don't pretend that it is. And don't give young people on this site the impression that it is. That's what pi**es me off.

It's a close-in gun with a hell of a lot of knockdown power. Push the limit and you'll be tracking a deer for a very long time. Do you really want  to argue with me about this?

You have your opinion and I have mine. We can agree to disagree .. 

[philoshop]

 

12 hours ago, rob-c said:

You have your opinion and I have mine. We can agree to disagree .. 

No problem. Take a tent and sleeping bag and a few days of rations for the trailing process. And it won't matter in the end one bit what bullet or load you're using. Over and out.

[rob-c]

2 hours ago, philoshop said:

 

No problem. Take a tent and sleeping bag and a few days of rations for the trailing process. And it won't matter in the end one bit what bullet or load you're using. Over and out.

I thought with my last post we would just let it go , but I see you can’t. And just a FYI I have shot numerous deer with my 44 out to 100 yards and recovered them with no problems.no tent or sleeping bag needed.. 

Have  good weekend... 

[Rattler]

My brother has taken a lot of deer with his T/C Contender Super 14 in .44 mag with a Leupold 1.5 x 5 scope.  It has a 14 in barrel. Many were between 100 and 125 yards in the field he hunts on his land.  Not sure of the bullet he uses, but believe its just a 240 grain soft point.  None of them ever made it out of the field.

I took a deer at 110 yards with a Marlin 1894 in .44 mag and another at 75 with a Ruger .44 mag carbine.  The cartridge has the energy to do the job at 100 yards.

A .45 ACP in a handgun has a lot less energy at 100 yards and drops more.  Not sure I would shoot over 50 yards with one.

[pitweiler]

Well, for anyone that is still interested, I decided to do some testing. I took out some PDX1 and Golden Saber, my chronograph and a batch of "Super Scientific Ballistic Cardboard".  I cut up a number of boxes and soaked them in water for about 3 hours, creating "Super Scientific Ballistic Cardboard".

I went out to the range and set up my ballistic cardboard and punched a Golden Saber into it. The cardboard was ~16 inces deep and the saber drilled a humongous exit hole through it and into oblivion. I searched and searched and couldn't find the slug. I reconfigured the ballistic cardboard and tried two more times; both pass throughs. I could tell based on the damage through the ballistic card board the bullets were expanding. It was like a cone starting small and ending about 1.25-1.75 inches in diameter at exit. I rolled the ballistic cardboard up and formed it into a 22 inch block. Two more sabers showed approximately 18 inches of penetration and full expansion. I measured one at .751. Both are text book.

The PDX1 was a big disappointment. I fired two rounds into the 22 inch block and both penetrated about 18 inches and failed to expand. One started to open, but never finished. After that I punched the block with two 135gr 9mm +P Critical Duty bullets that expanded text book, but very small. The damage done to the ballistic cardboard by the sabers was intense. Based on this Ultra-Super-Scientific test, I'm going to stick with Golden Saber.

Chrono average on them was 844 fps from my 4 inch. Must have had a bad chrono read, or five slow rounds the last time I tested it.

Edited October 10, 2018 by pitweiler

[Buckmaster7600]

If I was you I would use a 220gn hardcast semi was cutter. Loaded as hot as possible. That load should darn near go need for end of a deer. Don’t take much of what you see on YouTube for fact many of those videos are from down south when deer are half the size of ours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pitweiler]

I don't know. I think that isn't necessary. I've been seeing a lot of deer lately, saw 10 the other night and most of them are pretty small. I think it depends where in NYS you are. Up north they're probably 1.5x the size of the suburban deer in CNY.