nocturnal rutting

[Bionic]

Question, here at home, 5 acres plus sole permission on 80 ish acres attached to it.  There is lots and lots of wooded land up here, sort of a big wood scenario. Across the road is 1800+\- acres of pure woods.  Trying to set a feel for thr land.  Anyways, year after year, the rutting action I catch on camera, seems to be during the night.  I did not go in these woods all spring/summer.  I did set up 2 stands in mid September I believe it was.  I started placing cameras around the same time in spots that I could check to/from stands.  No bucks at all until November, and the legal bucks(AR zone), are always during the late night, sometimes a few hours prior to sun rise.  I was seeing a few spikes during bow, and a 4 pointer, but they would just wander on through.    I would think these legal bucks would almost be a bit more laxed to stroll in daylight since they are born in an AR zone, I would think deer who could legally be killed in a non AR zone would be more skittish.  I just don't understand this property.  I have a lot of common sense, but when it comes to hunting I tend to overlook, or some details never cross my mind.  This is western Sullivan County....3K

any thoughts on this? Its been this way year after year here.  My other spot in 3M I get good bucks photo'd, but their deer density is through the sky compared to here.

also, I do routinely see 5-8 does where I am hunting, while I hunt they routinely pass by....I would think at some point a buck of any caliber  would walk through.

sorry for the book, I am just stumped again.

[Jeremy K]

That's a lousy buck to doe ratio , i've been hunting a place like that for the lat 12 years.

[Bionic]

Just now, Jeremy K said:

That's a lousy buck to doe ratio , i've been hunting a place like that for the lat 12 years.

I am afraid to kill a coupl doe with my either or tags because sightings are so few, I feel like there the only deer here! Sounds funny maybe, but I am serious.  Its so laxed here as far as hunyimg pressure goes, I feel like this should be a gold mine for hunting success.  I have not shot a deer here since 2014 gun opener.  Passed a good 7 the following year(bad idea), and had no other legal buck sightings while hunting, until an 8 was passed 3 weeks ago, due to bad angles, so i passed.

is there a reason these legal bucks tend to move during overnight hours, even when I stay out of there? These does never wind me either, so i feel like I am ok with scent control.

[dlgerow]

Yesterday in 3A I saw 11 does..most single sightings with the exception of 3 together...no bucks around them at all. By now if you see a doe, look closely..not this week. All the does I saw this week were alone as were all the bucks to include the one I shot.

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[Bionic]

3 minutes ago, dlgerow said:

Yesterday in 3A I saw 11 does..most single sightings with the exception of 3 together...no bucks around them at all. By now if you see a doe, look closely..not this week. All the does I saw this week were alone as were all the bucks to include the one I shot.

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You see many bucks?

look closely...as in for a trailing buck? Next week you're thinking more so than this week? Did I read that correctly?

 

[Jeremy K]

10 minutes ago, Bionic said:

I am afraid to kill a coupl doe with my either or tags because sightings are so few, I feel like there the only deer here! Sounds funny maybe, but I am serious.  Its so laxed here as far as hunyimg pressure goes, I feel like this should be a gold mine for hunting success.  I have not shot a deer here since 2014 gun opener.  Passed a good 7 the following year(bad idea), and had no other legal buck sightings while hunting, until an 8 was passed 3 weeks ago, due to bad angles, so i passed.

is there a reason these legal bucks tend to move during overnight hours, even when I stay out of there? These does never wind me either, so i feel like I am ok with scent control.

I hunt 9P ,they have never given out doe tags since ive been hunting there . There is a bunch of camps all over and anything with antlers gets killed ,Every year we start over with baby bucks .

[dlgerow]

You see many bucks?
look closely...as in for a trailing buck? Next week you're thinking more so than this week? Did I read that correctly?
 

I shot an 8 point. Saw only one 5 pt chasing but that was last Thursday. I have seen a 4, 2 spikes and a button buck..all alone and none around a doe.

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[Bionic]

1 minute ago, Jeremy K said:

I hunt 9P ,they have never given out doe tags since ive been hunting there . There is a bunch of camps all over and anything with antlers gets killed ,Every year we start over with baby bucks .

Ok, so then do you tend to see good daytime rutting action?

Here is always at night, as far as 4 cameras go.  I placed 2 cams where rubs are ALWAYS from year to year.  All long after dark.  The other cam is further in where one year had good daytime rut action, and rubs.  The 4th is on the edge of my yard, from time to time over the years, I get a buck on that camera. 

 

[Jeremy K]

6 minutes ago, Bionic said:

Ok, so then do you tend to see good daytime rutting action?

Here is always at night, as far as 4 cameras go.  I placed 2 cams where rubs are ALWAYS from year to year.  All long after dark.  The other cam is further in where one year had good daytime rut action, and rubs.  The 4th is on the edge of my yard, from time to time over the years, I get a buck on that camera. 

 

Our typical rutting action is seeing the same 4 point or a spike walking around all day.

[Bionic]

7 minutes ago, dlgerow said:

I shot an 8 point. Saw only one 5 pt chasing but that was last Thursday. I have seen a 4, 2 spikes and a button buck..all alone and none around a doe.

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I saw that, congrats!

still curious why these bigger legal bucks up my way seem to only cruise during the middle of the night 

[Bionic]

Just now, Jeremy K said:

Our typical rutting action is seeing the same 4 point or a spike walking around all day.

Ok, thanks.

do any cams show bigger bucks cruising overnight?

[Jeremy K]

6 minutes ago, Bionic said:

Ok, thanks.

do any cams show bigger bucks cruising overnight?

The only time we see bigger bucks on the cams is during the summer months but it will only be a one time deal ,like they're just passing through. There is some pines next to my buddies house that will get shredded every year , i'm talking some really big trees.  We put cameras down there and never catch the culprit , again ,it's like a one time deal.

[Robhuntandfish]

I've always gotten the biggest bucks moving on cam at night.  They are just more active then cause they are smart and that's why they are big. We had a big boy on our lease we never had a daytime pic of for three years.  We named him " dark Knight".  The big ones only make that one mistake to be shot esp if their isn't a lot of big bucks in the area and your hoping to get a crack at the one or two around. 

Only thing I can think is if you've been in that stand a real lot and they are avoiding it.  Maybe have one stand on the property that you save for late season.  My buck this year was from a late late season stand move cause I wasn't seeing much.  Then shot a doe in it first afternoon and second afternoon a buck.  Maybe blowing out stand by too much use?  

Or try to get closer to bedding area and between food.  Maybe catch one headed back in too late or up early.  

If it's undisturbed land maybe a little rattling one day to try to bring one out. 

I usually have the same issue.  Might be lucky to have one big buck per property and to hunt him down is tough.  Usually it's the 5 point that makes a mistake in daylight trailing does. 

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Robhuntandfish

[Bionic]

Just now, Jeremy K said:

The only time we see bigger bucks on the cams is during the summer months but it will only be a one time deal ,like they're just passing through. There is some pines next to my buddies house that will get shredded every year , i'm talking some really big trees.  We put cameras down there and never catch the culprit , again ,it's like a one time deal.

That sounds a lot like this place...as in if you see him, you will never see him again.  Only once have I seen a deer while hunting, that has been photo'd here. 

I would like to put a plot in, or some apple trees.  The more I think about it, we had more buck sightings when the house up the road had about a dozen or so apple trees, the trees ALL died a few years ago.  This is all clicking now really...

My home is dead center of my 5 acres, so I really do not have much room for a decent sized plot.  50% or so I would say is pines, so the soil is crap, I would think.  I will start reading in the land management section.  Have to chit chat with my boss too, he is very good with grass management, and growing plants.

thanks for the chit chat Jeremy.

[NFA-ADK]

I would try a doe in heat drip.  It can help to lure them out in the day time.   Second rut should be starting this weekend!  Good luck sounds like a low population area, they are hard to hunt! 

[Jeremy K]

7 minutes ago, Bionic said:

That sounds a lot like this place...as in if you see him, you will never see him again.  Only once have I seen a deer while hunting, that has been photo'd here. 

I would like to put a plot in, or some apple trees.  The more I think about it, we had more buck sightings when the house up the road had about a dozen or so apple trees, the trees ALL died a few years ago.  This is all clicking now really...

My home is dead center of my 5 acres, so I really do not have much room for a decent sized plot.  50% or so I would say is pines, so the soil is crap, I would think.  I will start reading in the land management section.  Have to chit chat with my boss too, he is very good with grass management, and growing plants.

thanks for the chit chat Jeremy.

One more observation from my end . In years past ,by this time of the season,deer activity is down to zero . I have been still seeing the same groups of doe now that i did during archery . The only major change i have noticed was on the neighboring property ,a couple years ago he logged a section ,now that section is thick with thorns and the deer seem to really enjoy bedding in there .

[Bionic]

4 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

I've always gotten the biggest bucks moving on cam at night.  They are just more active then cause they are smart and that's why they are big. We had a big boy on our lease we never had a daytime pic of for three years.  We named him " dark Knight".  The big ones only make that one mistake to be shot esp if their isn't a lot of big bucks in the area and your hoping to get a crack at the one or two around. 

Only thing I can think is if you've been in that stand a real lot and they are avoiding it.  Maybe have one stand on the property that you save for late season.  My buck this year was from a late late season stand move cause I wasn't seeing much.  Then shot a doe in it first afternoon and second afternoon a buck.  Maybe blowing out stand by too much use?  

Or try to get closer to bedding area and between food.  Maybe catch one headed back in too late or up early.  

If it's undisturbed land maybe a little rattling one day to try to bring one out. 

I usually have the same issue.  Might be lucky to have one big buck per property and to hunt him down is tough.  Usually it's the 5 point that makes a mistake in daylight trailing does. 

 

I do need a few more stands, I have another double person 18' ladder to go up for next year, and I know just the spot.  However, due to the lay of the land, I can only access these stands, from almost the same path.  I will draw a pic to show, and post.  I sat in my "far stand" Saturday, and Sunday since I had left it be for a week.  I have sat in my "skyscraper" Tuesday, Wednesday, and until 11ish this morning, feet were in pain so cold. Monday, I sat in thr far stand for a couple hours, and had to leave unexpectedly, so no hunting that day.  I honestly don't know where there is bedding here, I have suspicions, but when theres snow, I see the melted ovals, and they are just so random, no cover, or anything.  Food? No ag for 10's of miles, only our few yards, and aside from that its just woods, that allllll looks the saaaaame.  I am not seeing any horns at all really now.  Thank you Rob.  I should sneak to my far stand for the afternoon, i typically sit full days, but my feet couldnt do it today.  Oh yeah, by the way, my Skyscraper is only about 200' in from backyard, this is just prior, but within view of that path I get rut action on cam, and rubs, yearly.  The lay of the land makes sense for this stand being so close to the house, sort of a funnel.  Again I need a pic

[Bionic]

5 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

One more observation from my end . In years past ,by this time of the season,deer activity is down to zero . I have been still seeing the same groups of doe now that i did during archery . The only major change i have noticed was on the neighboring property ,a couple years ago he logged a section ,now that section is thick with thorns and the deer seem to really enjoy bedding in there .

Very similar situation, saaaaame doe group allllll season since mid October when I started hunting for the season.  Thanks Jeremy

[jperch]

JeremyK, We hunt in 9P near Ossian.  Things sure have changed over the last few years as far as deer density goes.  I didn't hunt there opening day but two relatives did and saw no deer, amazing as compared to 10 years ago.  The state land gets hit hard with large deer drives, seems like anything brown is down and shot fawns are sometimes left to rot.  The state lands near us are in need of being lumbered, and some are being cut.  I only saw 2 adult deer during archery season there.  I no longer hunt in 9P during gun season, much better hunting locally if you can find a place.  And I no longer have to listen to the deer drives.   jperch

[Bionic]

11 minutes ago, NFA-ADK said:

I would try a doe in heat drip.  It can help to lure them out in the day time.   Second rut should be starting this weekend!  Good luck sounds like a low population area, they are hard to hunt! 

I have been honestly.  I tried a buck bomb in my far stand first ever, had an 8 come in....bad angles, didnt shoot, had to pass.  He paid no attention to where I sprayed the buck bomb, so I don't know of coincidence, but I will try one again in the future.  I tried code blue here, the does were very confused lol, it was almost comical.  They kept circling, huffing, run off, sneak back, circle, etc.  Tinks scent wick has not had much results here.  I take them out with me, but left one in front of my one cam for haha's.

[Jeremy K]

7 minutes ago, jperch said:

JeremyK, We hunt in 9P near Ossian.  Things sure have changed over the last few years as far as deer density goes.  I didn't hunt there opening day but two relatives did and saw no deer, amazing as compared to 10 years ago.  The state land gets hit hard with large deer drives, seems like anything brown is down and shot fawns are sometimes left to rot.  The state lands near us are in need of being lumbered, and some are being cut.  I only saw 2 adult deer during archery season there.  I no longer hunt in 9P during gun season, much better hunting locally if you can find a place.  And I no longer have to listen to the deer drives.   jperch

I'm on a mission to find a closer hunting spot before next year. The 2 hour drive there is getting old.

[aqua750]

 I have a strange  spin on this  subject,I lived in the boonies most of my life around the deer woods  and I feel that bucks {over 11/2 yrs old} are two different  animals you  can shoot a doe anytime you want. I think that somehow bucks seem to know if they are seen they are dead dont ask me how but if you dont see any good shooter bucks  its not because they are not there its because they  have been patterning  you. smart bucks dont even use the same trails others  use they use the lesser trails that may go un noticed I have 200 acres at my disposal with all my neighbors owning large tracts of land it seems those big woods deer  are more comfortable the majority of times that i put  trail cams on the almost unnoticeable  trails thats when i get  pics of the big boys  and its ALWAYS  late night. I have put in some very serious food plots and a couple of feeders with cameras and they still dont come in but i get pics on the trails going to the plots or in the plots usually after midnights  I just dont know thats why we like the challenge of hunting 

[Bionic]

17 minutes ago, aqua750 said:

 I have a strange  spin on this  subject,I lived in the boonies most of my life around the deer woods  and I feel that bucks {over 11/2 yrs old} are two different  animals you  can shoot a doe anytime you want. I think that somehow bucks seem to know if they are seen they are dead dont ask me how but if you dont see any good shooter bucks  its not because they are not there its because they  have been patterning  you. smart bucks dont even use the same trails others  use they use the lesser trails that may go un noticed I have 200 acres at my disposal with all my neighbors owning large tracts of land it seems those big woods deer  are more comfortable the majority of times that i put  trail cams on the almost unnoticeable  trails thats when i get  pics of the big boys  and its ALWAYS  late night. I have put in some very serious food plots and a couple of feeders with cameras and they still dont come in but i get pics on the trails going to the plots or in the plots usually after midnights  I just dont know thats why we like the challenge of hunting 

Are you in NY?

good info thank you.  I probably have been patterned, but I would think a buck on a daytime journey would eventually show.  Then again, if the doe to buck ratio is way maybe these bucks do not need to travel far, I don't know 

[grampy]

Here in 4-H, it is very seldom that we get mature bucks on camera during daylight hours. Even less seldom, actually seeing them during light of day. That is the nature of the bucks, as they age here, as well as most places it seems. 

What works for me, is getting as close to "known" bedding as possible. And this too changes! As we had happen this year! Deer will change bedding areas for a variety of reasons. Just hug the edge, inside the 'thick nasties' but not enough to disturb the deer bedded in there. This is walking a razors edge, as you need to always have the wind advantage, so you don't blow them out of there!!! And you just can NOT, over hunt any one set up! These spots are left alone until the very end of October/ first of November. Also you need to be very adaptable, to what you are, and are not seeing, while in there! Move if you need to.

At this time bucks will cruise the dowmwind side, scent checking for any receptive doe. And feeling secure in the thick stuff or very close to it. 

Also, being close to bedding, puts you closer late running, (morning) or early rising (late day) bucks.

There really is no one answer, to hunting nocturnal bucks. I have just given one, that has worked for me. Every year situations change. As do the bucks themselves. So we need to learn and change too. I'm still learning. And I am definitely no expert! Just have a few years of mistakes under my belt. And some occasional luck.

Be adaptable. Don't be afraid of making mistakes, but learn from them. 

Bionic, you have the most important tools to get it done. Intelligence, grit and determination! I'll send you some luck.

Sorry for the long post.

[aqua750]

Just now, Bionic said:

Are you in NY?

good info thank you.  I probably have been patterned, but I would think a buck on a daytime journey would eventually show.  Then again, if the doe to buck ratio is way maybe these bucks do not need to travel far, I don't know 

we have all walked within feet of bedded deer without them stirring and never knew they were there when walking slowly but non stop right  NOW try this walk steadily thru the woods hunting as you go , walk about 100 yds  then turn around and go back the way you just came briskly and be on the ready , they are smart enough to let you walk by once  BUT when  you come back purposefully they spook  if  you past one in the rough he wont  let it happen  twice  cause  have broken  the pattern