DEC new Regulations Buck only

[WNYBuckHunter]

I always do. 

That 9000 isnt much if you are looking at statewide numbers, but break it down by zone and the story very well may be different. If they want 400 does taken out of a specific area, but there is an influx of bow/ml hunters that year, and 600 does are taken, that could be a serious problem for that area.

Do you think that bow hunters could increase their percentage by 25%. I know it was just an example but still? I am separating out the ML hunters by the way, I think that they should be included with Regular season numbers as they are guns and therefore much more effective.

Its possible, but even a 10% increase could hurt the herd. Remeber too, crossbows are going to come into the mix, so the archery season is going to become more efficient, and numbers of participants is going to go up.

[steve863]

"Of course Burt might take a shot at us if he sees us, but I am confident enough that he will miss us if he does.  Doe, you can stick your tongue at him to distract him while I get away with the venison.  We'll meet up at the truck!    [img alt=]http://huntingny.com/forums/Smileys/akyhne/smiley.gif[/img] "

Why do I gotta distract him, come on man! I would rather make off with the meat than be the target for him to shoot at. Maybe we can make a card board cut out of us waving at him and put a target right on it for him that way we can both escape unharmed.

I think we have a better chance of escaping unscathed if he actually does aim at us.  No telling where the bullets or arrows might go if he is aiming at something else. 

[Doewhacker]

"Its possible, but even a 10% increase could hurt the herd. Remeber too, crossbows are going to come into the mix, so the archery season is going to become more efficient, and numbers of participants is going to go up."

Ah yes I failed to ponder that part. Damn Crossbows!  haha It could be that thats why they are driving this direction too, I think you are on to some thing there.

[steve863]

Steve and Doe better not be down wind of me after a night of beans and franks, that will kill'em without even shooting. ;D

So are you telling us that you don't wear Scentlok garments like T-Bone on the other thread??

[Doewhacker]

"Of course Burt might take a shot at us if he sees us, but I am confident enough that he will miss us if he does.  Doe, you can stick your tongue at him to distract him while I get away with the venison.  We'll meet up at the truck!    [img alt=]http://huntingny.com/forums/Smileys/akyhne/smiley.gif[/img] "

Why do I gotta distract him, come on man! I would rather make off with the meat than be the target for him to shoot at. Maybe we can make a card board cut out of us waving at him and put a target right on it for him that way we can both escape unharmed.

I think we have a better chance of escaping unscathed if he actually does aim at us.  No telling where the bullets or arrows might go if he is aiming at something else. 

This is true, its a proven fact that guys that pass on deer all the time can't hit squat. Really when I hear a guy say I coulda shot this or that, I chuckle, because while they are passing all of the deer I am shooting them and geting more experience at hitting stuff..lol jk Burt!

[Doewhacker]

Steve and Doe better not be down wind of me after a night of beans and franks, that will kill'em without even shooting. ;D

So are you telling us that you don't wear Scentlok garments like T-Bone on the other thread??

I guess we know what he means when he says "passing" on deer...ewww them are some stinky, tainted deer you got there Burt.

[steve863]

I guess we know what he means when he says "passing" on deer...ewww them are some stinky, tainted deer you got there Burt.

LOL!  That's a good one!  I think this calls for the DEC to set up a special cull season to rid the herd of these tainted deer.  I'm in.  I don't think the meat will be bad at all and perfectly fine to eat.  Sort of like killing a deer that has been partially smoked already!  LOL

[Doewhacker]

Ok Burt steve and I are at your service once again. We are allways willing to help a fellow hunter out of a jam. Usually we just need GPS coordinates and a good stand set up, and maybe some egg sanwhiches in the morning and we will be there. lol

[First-light]

Steve and Doe better not be down wind of me after a night of beans and franks, that will kill'em without even shooting. ;D

So are you telling us that you don't wear Scentlok garments like T-Bone on the other thread??

Too expensive for me. BTW never said I was against shooting does, just pointed out a scenario where you might want to think twice.

That probably went right over your head. ;D

[steve863]

Steve and Doe better not be down wind of me after a night of beans and franks, that will kill'em without even shooting. ;D

So are you telling us that you don't wear Scentlok garments like T-Bone on the other thread??

Too expensive for me. BTW never said I was against shooting does, just pointed out a scenario where you might want to think twice.

That probably went right over your head. ;D

We're just playing with you, Burt!  We've never known you to take things as seriously as some others here.

[Doewhacker]

"That probably went right over your head"

Much like your arrows when shooting at a deer,

In our one spot, I would pass on the buck to get a shot at the doe, sort of reverse, but the doe there are alot bigger than the scrubby bucks that are running around. No lie either, I shot a 135 pound doe a couple of years ago there. I would rather shoot the big doe's.

[WNYBuckHunter]

"Its possible, but even a 10% increase could hurt the herd. Remeber too, crossbows are going to come into the mix, so the archery season is going to become more efficient, and numbers of participants is going to go up."

Ah yes I failed to ponder that part. Damn Crossbows!  haha It could be that thats why they are driving this direction too, I think you are on to some thing there.

[First-light]

Steve and Doe better not be down wind of me after a night of beans and franks, that will kill'em without even shooting. ;D

So are you telling us that you don't wear Scentlok garments like T-Bone on the other thread??

Too expensive for me. BTW never said I was against shooting does, just pointed out a scenario where you might want to think twice.

That probably went right over your head. ;D

We're just playing with you, Burt!  We've never known you to take things as seriously as some others here.

I know Steve.  Doe, I do tend to screw up the shot more often with the bow. Odds are in your favor!!

[steve863]

The man isn't kidding.  They don't call him Doewhacker for nothing.  The DEC bestowed that title on him for having reported 152 doe kills over the years, while not having killed a single buck.  Well, he did shoot an antlered deer once, but damned if it didn't turn out to be a doe with horns!  These days he tears the buck tag off as soon as he gets his license and throws it in the trash.  A dedicated doe killer he is! 

[Doewhacker]

Thats right, my brother is the buck killer of the family. He actually shot a doe with the bow a few years ago cause he was afraid of me yelling at him for not killing it. Some one has to put meat in the freezer, I can't do all the work!

Oddly enough that day I got a buck after he got the doe...lol

[Doc]

I hate to be a wet blanket, but some are talking like simply changing everything to a DMP lottery system will be the magic bullet that makes doe control all better. To me that all sounds a bit naive. It's really kind of funny that anyone thinks that the paltry few does killed by bows and muzzleloaders makes the difference between controlling deer herds and not controlling deer herds. If they have areas that are over-harvested, the population will be such that the bowhunters and muzzleloaders will have even less success and consequently even less impact on doe harvests..... automatically even under the current system. I have to ask, has there ever been an area where the herd was decimated and was unable to be brought back through reduction of gun antlerless permits? All of a sudden now the success or failure of harvest planning relies on what happens with bows and ML?? I don't buy it. If that is a provable case, the DEC should be publishing charts and graphs to back up their contention that this action is needed. Well, maybe that is impossible to do because harvest reporting has been reduced a voluntary system that relies on convenience to the hunter instead of an enforced system of mandatory reporting.

[Dave]

leave the bow hunters alone, we don't need no stinkin changes.

Dave

[wdswtr]

I hate to be a wet blanket, but some are talking like simply changing everything to a DMP lottery system will be the magic bullet that makes doe control all better. To me that all sounds a bit naive. It's really kind of funny that anyone thinks that the paltry few does killed by bows and muzzleloaders makes the difference between controlling deer herds and not controlling deer herds. If they have areas that are over-harvested, the population will be such that the bowhunters and muzzleloaders will have even less success and consequently even less impact on doe harvests..... automatically even under the current system. I have to ask, has there ever been an area where the herd was decimated and was unable to be brought back through reduction of gun antlerless permits? All of a sudden now the success or failure of harvest planning relies on what happens with bows and ML?? I don't buy it. If that is a provable case, the DEC should be publishing charts and graphs to back up their contention that this action is needed. Well, maybe that is impossible to do because harvest reporting has been reduced a voluntary system that relies on convenience to the hunter instead of an enforced system of mandatory reporting.

Agreed!! The DEC even states that doe harvest by bowhunters is insignificant. So why take away the either sex tag?

So they can get another 10 bucks out of you.  Its included in the price of your B/M tag currently. This can be debated until the deer come home.  They need the funds we need the deer to keep funding them its a win win.  Think about that a second.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I hate to be a wet blanket, but some are talking like simply changing everything to a DMP lottery system will be the magic bullet that makes doe control all better. To me that all sounds a bit naive. It's really kind of funny that anyone thinks that the paltry few does killed by bows and muzzleloaders makes the difference between controlling deer herds and not controlling deer herds. If they have areas that are over-harvested, the population will be such that the bowhunters and muzzleloaders will have even less success and consequently even less impact on doe harvests..... automatically even under the current system. I have to ask, has there ever been an area where the herd was decimated and was unable to be brought back through reduction of gun antlerless permits? All of a sudden now the success or failure of harvest planning relies on what happens with bows and ML?? I don't buy it. If that is a provable case, the DEC should be publishing charts and graphs to back up their contention that this action is needed. Well, maybe that is impossible to do because harvest reporting has been reduced a voluntary system that relies on convenience to the hunter instead of an enforced system of mandatory reporting.

Not saying its any magic bullet, but it is a step in the right direction.

BTW, they make special underwear for you old guys so you dont have to wet your blankets.  ;)

[growalot]

Let me set up this scenario and tell me ...please.... how this change is really going to help...say you have 8H and it has a high deer number...but 8M shares a large border with it and it has a very low deer number...due to previous over DMP issuance and weather...ppl being what they are like staying close to home and familiar areas from 8m mainly apply for the best area...8-H....what many of them do when receiving their  DMP is stay very close to the 8 M-H border...now this being a lottery lets say a lot of 8M guys got tags....what good does that do in controlling the high doe #'s in the northern part  of 8-H...especially when you have now lost out on those possible bow harvests they would have had with out DMPS?....

[WNYBuckHunter]

Let me set up this scenario and tell me ...please.... how this change is really going to help...say you have 8H and it has a high deer number...but 8M shares a large border with it and it has a very low deer number...due to previous over DMP issuance and weather...ppl being what they are like staying close to home and familiar areas from 8m mainly apply for the best area...8-H....what many of them do when receiving their  DMP is stay very close to the 8 M-H border...now this being a lottery lets say a lot of 8M guys got tags....what good does that do in controlling the high doe #'s in the northern part  of 8-H...especially when you have now lost out on those possible bow harvests they would have had with out DMPS?....

Why would you lose out on bow harvests? They are not saying you cant use the DMPs with your bow. Even the proposed system isnt perfect, and they cant control people hunting the boarder area of a high DMP zone with any feasible system. The only thing they could do would be to break the area off as another zone and allocate DMPs to it.

[Doc]

Not saying its any magic bullet, but it is a step in the right direction.

And of course it's not a magic bullet or a step in the right direction because of the remainder of my reply above.

[Doc]

Let me set up this scenario and tell me ...please.... how this change is really going to help...say you have 8H and it has a high deer number...but 8M shares a large border with it and it has a very low deer number...due to previous over DMP issuance and weather...ppl being what they are like staying close to home and familiar areas from 8m mainly apply for the best area...8-H....what many of them do when receiving their  DMP is stay very close to the 8 M-H border...now this being a lottery lets say a lot of 8M guys got tags....what good does that do in controlling the high doe #'s in the northern part  of 8-H...especially when you have now lost out on those possible bow harvests they would have had with out DMPS?....

I may not be understanding the question very well, but perhaps the answer lies in the theory behind the DMP system. Theoretically WMU 8H with the larger population would be issued more permits and so more hunters would have better odds at successfully being chosen for a permit and result in harvesting more does. 8M on the other hand, with fewer deer would be issued fewer permits and the odds of hunters getting those permits would be smaller. So the area with the thinner herd would have a lower harvest of does. Now what impacts that you might see as you get close to the border may or may not be what the DEC was really after, so the DMP system may not work quite as well in those localities.

I probably missed the question by a mile ..... lol.

[growalot]

What I was saying is ppl that may have hunted the northern part but lost out do to the lottery would with the new system...would now  not have a option of shooting a doe....and Bingo you hit the nail on the head WNYH...for as it stands  now this scenario has already played out over the years....guys that know they have a lower chance of getting tags in the area they normally hunt go for the closest highest chance area...we all do it....then does the DEC take this in to account when estimating #'s across the entire DMU? ...when the hear guys complaining they see no deer area they trying to gather the info to find out if it's a whole unit problem or a border problem?

I believe that before the DEC goes ahead with a implementation of a 5yr plan...they need to figure out how to gather and compile all the needed info much better than they do now...a glaring example of this is the lack of any reasonable harvest info gathering in this new plan.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Not saying its any magic bullet, but it is a step in the right direction.

And of course it's not a magic bullet or a step in the right direction because of the remainder of my reply above.

Well, if you cant understand how the proposed system gains better control over what DMPs get issued where, then I dont know what to tell you.

What I can tell you is it has nothing to do with what implement is more effective.