School me on tractors

[G-Man]

1 hour ago, wolc123 said:

That 8n would be an ok pick for a food plot tractor depending on condition.   It's biggest weakness is the lack of live hydraulics, as explained in my earlier post.  If the clutch is good and it has not been converted to 12 volts and still starts good on 6, then $ 2 k would be a fair price.   The $ 2.4 k asking price seems a bit on the steep side, based on the worn and weather checked rear tires.

Even though it lacks live hydraulics, it will do ok on a 5 foot bush-hog if you add an overrunning coupler on the pto (those are only about $ 75 at Tractor Supply).  The pre-1948 n-series (9n's & 2n's) lacked position control on the hydraulics which made them much worse on a bush-hog.   

 That 1949 8n would have a front distributer and no proof/hourmeter which makes maintenance a little more difficult than the later models, like my own 1951.  There are some things that I like better about my 8n than just about any modern one, including: 1) Parts availability - since the Ford n-series was produced in greater numbers than any other make/model, nothing else comes close here.  2) Durability/Simplicity - The fact that it has been 70 years since they have been made and so many are still in service is pretty good "proof" of that.  3) Ease of attaching implements - This was the first mass-produced tractor with a 3-point hitch and it's compact size makes hitching up almost any implement an easy task.  4) Silent running, efficient gasoline motor - Gas has almost always been less expensive and easier to get than diesel.   It also does not need a block-heater for smooth starting on the coldest days of winter.  5) Ease of getting on or off the seat from the left or right side - This is a big advantage for many tasks, such as operating a planter where seed and fertilizer must be added.   6) Has "draft" and "position" control on the hydraulics.       

I'll add a 7 to your list ,simple wiring harness not much electronic safety crap that can fail and make it a pain to trace out an issue.. 8 n simple motor/ transmission.. 

[dbHunterNY]

all of it is a moot point. any tractor can get poorly maintained. the simpler a tractor is the better when hours go on them as they're less complicated to fix. still new features are ridiculously nice like shuttle foward/reverse, quick detach bucket, stronger hydraulics, tooless guards/panels/covers, etc.

honestly you do much wrong unless you stay away from occasional grey market tractors that show up at auctions. also some series/brand/model year tractors in the size you're probably looking at have ligher rear ends compared to others. you have to know a bit about them though to start picking out that stuff.

[BigVal]

I drove a 8n around that was for sale by the house, seems solid 6 volt fires right up the non live pto and hydraulic seems could be annoying but easily learned. The guy selling it is an old farmer who works on tractors around the area seemed to steer me toward live PTO but said the same thing, it's been done for years so why not. I'm looking at a Ford 1900 and 3000 diesel this weekend at some point as well which has a loader. Im partial to diesels mostly because I've always had diesel pick ups and have a good amount of knowledge and skill working on them so we will see. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by BigVal

[G-Man]

1 hour ago, BigVal said:

I drove a 8n around that was for sale by the house, seems solid 6 volt fires right up the non live pto and hydraulic seems could be annoying but easily learned. The guy selling it is an old farmer who works on tractors around the area seemed to steer me toward live PTO but said the same thing, it's been done for years so why not. I'm looking at a Ford 1900 and 3000 diesel this weekend at some point as well which has a loader. Im partial to diesels mostly because I've always had diesel pick ups and have a good amount of knowledge and skill working on them so we will see. 

Between the 3  I'd Go 1st the Ford 3000, 8n. Ford 1900.. the 1900 is a glorified lawn mower that can take a mid mount deck.. the other were designed as farm implements by Ford, not a Japanese sub company....

[wolc123]

20 hours ago, BigVal said:

I drove a 8n around that was for sale by the house, seems solid 6 volt fires right up the non live pto and hydraulic seems could be annoying but easily learned. The guy selling it is an old farmer who works on tractors around the area seemed to steer me toward live PTO but said the same thing, it's been done for years so why not. I'm looking at a Ford 1900 and 3000 diesel this weekend at some point as well which has a loader. Im partial to diesels mostly because I've always had diesel pick ups and have a good amount of knowledge and skill working on them so we will see. 

 

18 hours ago, G-Man said:

Between the 3  I'd Go 1st the Ford 3000, 8n. Ford 1900.. the 1900 is a glorified lawn mower that can take a mid mount deck.. the other were designed as farm implements by Ford, not a Japanese sub company....

I agree that, depending on condition, the 3000 would be best.  I owned its little brother  (a 2000 diesel) for about 15 years.   Those little Ford three-cylinder diesels are very efficient, and even though diesel usually cost more per gallon, it ended up costing me less to bush hog my farm with that than it did with the 8n, using the same 5-foot "squealer".  My 2000 also lacked live hydraulics, but again, no issue there after adding an overrunning coupler.  

It's biggest advantage over the 8n was the live hydraulics, which were also way stronger than those on the 8n.  With my home-made rear-loader, my 8n could only lift the empty pond scoop, out at the end of the boom.   With the 2000, I could fill it with topsoil or rock, and use it to load dump trucks, after adding a bit of ballast to the front of the tractor (a couple 200 pound steel plates).   The power steering was also nice on the 2000, and would probably be a necessity with a front loader.  

What I did not like about that little diesel was that it was hard to start.  It needed a real big battery, and I had to have the starter rebuilt twice over those 15 years and about 1500 hours of operation.   Whenever the temperature was under about 60 degrees, it needed a shot of either to start quickly.   It did not have a block heater of glow plugs, which might have cured that issue.   I always parked it for the winter and used my gas-powered 8n for snow plowing.  

I also have some experience with a couple gas-engine Ford 3000's, one owned by a neighbor who I helped with hay, and another by my first employer.   They felt somewhat underpowered, compared to my 2000 diesel, but they definitely started a lot better in the winter.   I spent many hours plowing snow with one.         

[wolc123]

On 7/18/2019 at 2:02 PM, BigVal said:

I drove a 8n around that was for sale by the house, seems solid 6 volt fires right up the non live pto and hydraulic seems could be annoying but easily learned. The guy selling it is an old farmer who works on tractors around the area seemed to steer me toward live PTO but said the same thing, it's been done for years so why not. I'm looking at a Ford 1900 and 3000 diesel this weekend at some point as well which has a loader. Im partial to diesels mostly because I've always had diesel pick ups and have a good amount of knowledge and skill working on them so we will see. 

How is the tractor hunt going ?   I see there is a decent-looking Ford 600 listed on craigslist, located in West Seneca right now.   $ 4000 or best offer, fully restored.    From the pictures, it looks like a decent restoration, and the rear tires and oil pressure look pretty good.   12 volt conversion is a bit of a concern, regarding compression, but is handy for running something like a 12 volt sprayer pump.   It is a model 600 - per the hood emblem (probably a 1954 or 1955), which had slightly better "live" hydraulics than on the 1953 "Jubilee" model (the first year that was offered, also the first year without a flat-head engine).  If the clutch and hydraulics are good and the compression is ok, then  $ 3,500 would be a pretty good price.  

It lacks a front loader, 4wd, and power steering, but the "live" hydraulics (much stronger than the "non-live" hydraulics on an n-series) would work good for a rear loader, like the one I made for my Ford 2000.    Ford got the overhead valve engine operating efficiently by the time the 600 came around in 1954 (The 1953 Jubilee burned a little more gas than the 1952, 8n flat-head, doing the same work).   My neighbors have used a 600 almost continuously, since it was new, for pulling hay wagons around.  The hydraulics have not worked on it for as long as I can remember.  They never bothered fixing it, because that's not needed for pulling hay wagons.  "Everything works" on the one on craigslist.  I would hook something heavy up to the hitch and make sure it lifts it and holds it up for a while, before making an offer.                  

Edited July 20, 2019 by wolc123

[TreeGuy]

I'll keep it short and sweet. Without knowing budget, it's hard to pinpoint but....

4x4
Loader
Ag tires
Hydro

Brands. Kubota. Deere. Yanmar. Ford/New Holland.

I have gone through a few tractors and know that 4x4 is always superior and worth the money.

Hydro is basically mandatory for loader work. Sure you can make a gear or shuttle work, but you cannot beat hydro.

Old 2 wheel drives are typically pretty easy to find especially the old Ford's. But, I can pretty much guarantee there will be a bunch of things you will learn to hate. They are bullet proof and most have good parts availability but a little more out of pocket and you could grab a machine that will treat you right for years to come and any task you throw at it.

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[G-Man]

9 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

I'll keep it short and sweet. Without knowing budget, it's hard to pinpoint but....

4x4
Loader
Ag tires
Hydro

Brands. Kubota. Deere. Yanmar. Ford/New Holland.

I have gone through a few tractors and know that 4x4 is always superior and worth the money.

Hydro is basically mandatory for loader work. Sure you can make a gear or shuttle work, but you cannot beat hydro.

Old 2 wheel drives are typically pretty easy to find especially the old Ford's. But, I can pretty much guarantee there will be a bunch of things you will learn to hate. They are bullet proof and most have good parts availability but a little more out of pocket and you could grab a machine that will treat you right for years to come and any task you throw at it.

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Never hydrostatic geared gives much more control with out loss of hp. Plus if hydro goes you dont move..  geared can always get you out . 

[TreeGuy]

Never hydrostatic geared gives much more control with out loss of hp. Plus if hydro goes you dont move..  geared can always get you out . 

We shall agree to disagree. There are plenty of things that can go wrong and leave any machine stranded. The power loss from hydro is minimal. I have never been limited on power with my current rig and I would never buy a geared tractor again.

Drive one for yourself, do some work with both, even if it's moving a pile of dirt around before you buy.

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[G-Man]

Just now, TreeGuy said:

We shall agree to disagree. There are plenty of things that can go wrong and leave any machine stranded. The power loss from hydro is minimal. I have never been limited on power with my current rig and I would never buy a geared tractor again.

Drive one for yourself, do some work with both, even if it's moving a pile of dirt around before you buy.

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I have and most that work an a slope around here hydraulic suckks. Maybe flat level ground ,tractor stats show 5 to 10 hp loss on most hydraulic at drawbar, I use a loader minimally. Moving stone occasionally. Geared going thru mud, or on a slope ascending or descending out perform all day.. I do not see many farm tractors hydrostatic in upper hp ranges, for the consumer that buys a subcompact they may be easier to use than geared but once you learn gears like my friend did on mine this year ( he sold his hydrostatic  since and went geared) it will out perform in heavy duty every time. I would say depending on use they have their place. 

[TreeGuy]

I have and most that work an a slope around here hydraulic suckks. Maybe flat level ground ,tractor stats show 5 to 10 hp loss on most hydraulic at drawbar, I use a loader minimally. Moving stone occasionally. Geared going thru mud, or on a slope ascending or descending out perform all day.. I do not see many farm tractors hydrostatic in upper hp ranges, for the consumer that buys a subcompact they may be easier to use than geared but once you learn gears like my friend did on mine this year ( he sold his hydrostatic  since and went geared) it will out perform in heavy duty every time. I would say depending on use they have their place. 

I was actually recommending bigval / op test them out if he can.

Also, I've walked my tractor through frame deep mud, up and down hills with heavy loads in tow, and still have plenty of power.

What hydro tractor did you have / drive ? I'm curious because mine gets used for all kinds of tasks and has out performed my old gear tractor in every task.

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[mowin]

I have to agree with treeguy. 

Hydro is king.  I've had 8n, 9n. Great tractors, but gears are not the greatest thing. 

I've never had issues going up, down, sidehill with my hydro.  

So what hydro looses some at the shaft. Speck your trackor to your needs, implements.  

Obviously budget determines what one can afford, and used geared tractors are usually more affordable. 

[G-Man]

16 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

I was actually recommending bigval / op test them out if he can.

Also, I've walked my tractor through frame deep mud, up and down hills with heavy loads in tow, and still have plenty of power.

What hydro tractor did you have / drive ? I'm curious because mine gets used for all kinds of tasks and has out performed my old gear tractor in every task.

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1 st hyro I used was a Ford 9n pos...

2nd was a formal 70 not bad but not good either

Tried a kubota l330 .nice machine but not intended for what I used it for, hydraulics underpowered for same size tractor by kioti. Lift capacity was 1/3 less and felt like driving a lawn mower. 

I'll take geared with a shuttle shift over any hydraulic,  pick your gear and go...slipping down shift.. need to push a pile low gear and add power.. 

[G-Man]

Biggest problem with a hydrostatic transmission, How do you use your steering brakes with your foot on a go pedal? Or differential lock? If your going back and forth a million times moving things with a loader I can see a hydrostatic..your using it like a lawnmower.. 

[TreeGuy]

Biggest problem with a hydrostatic transmission, How do you use your steering brakes with your foot on a go pedal? Or differential lock? If your going back and forth a million times moving things with a loader I can see a hydrostatic..your using it like a lawnmower.. 

Trick question ? Brakes are on the opposite side as go pedal, so you use them the same as a gear tractor, and in reality, steering brakes are for gear tractors that CANT just slow down for a trunk, like a hydro. All my times on a tractor and I have never used them, ever

 

My tractor has a foot pedal for diff lock, also on the opposite side as go pedal, so you just use your opposite foot to push it down.

 

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[wolc123]

Generally, for food plot work, gear is better, especially for ground-engaging work or when speed control is critical - like for spraying.    There are places where the hydro comes out on top and they all include the letter "L" : Loader work, Landscaping, Lawn-mowing, Lazy folks, and Ladies.  If any of those describes you or your primary tasks, then you might be better served by a hydro.      

[G-Man]

30 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

Trick question ? Brakes are on the opposite side as go pedal, so you use them the same as a gear tractor, and in reality, steering brakes are for gear tractors that CANT just slow down for a trunk, like a hydro. All my times on a tractor and I have never used them, ever

 

My tractor has a foot pedal for diff lock, also on the opposite side as go pedal, so you just use your opposite foot to push it down.

 

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If you never used steering brakes you havent really used a tractor....

[Jeremy K]

All this argument about drives and  brands of tractors ,meanwhile ,the allis chalmers guys are out getting work done. 

[wolc123]

34 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

All this argument about drives and  brands of tractors ,meanwhile ,the allis chalmers guys are out getting work done. 

Allis Chalmers was a good "no-frills" brand.   I still have an old one, with a tricycle front, that I love for dragging logs out of the woods and for spraying corn.    They are still what I think of when I hear "orange" tractors,  not them foreign jobs that are so popular these days.  

[TreeGuy]

If you never used steering brakes you havent really used a tractor....

Lol. Guess not.

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[mowin]

2 hours ago, G-Man said:

If you never used steering brakes you havent really used a tractor....

Ya, ok.   

Guess on the same note, you've never used a hydro tractor.  And yes, I've got plenty of hrs on both.  Actually a LOT more on a 8n then my hydros. 

Sounds like someone doesn't quite know how to work a hydro... 

[wolc123]

31 minutes ago, mowin said:

Ya, ok.   

Guess on the same note, you've never used a hydro tractor.  And yes, I've got plenty of hrs on both.  Actually a LOT more on a 8n then my hydros. 

Sounds like someone doesn't quite know how to work a hydro... 

Your name makes it clear why you like the hydros.  They are great for lawn "mowin" but not so hot for food-plot work.  I used a gear tractor for lawn mowing for many years, but since using a hydro, it is very tough to go back to gear.  I only use the one I have now when the grass is too thick and I can't spare the power loss from the hydro (I have 15 hp gear and 15 hp hydro lawn-mower tractors, each with a 38" decks, and a 1 acre lawn).  I would need to have at least 20 hp on that 38" hydro tractor to get my lawn cut when it gets real thick, but the 15 hp gear mower does not struggle a bit when it does, with the same width deck.      

Edited July 21, 2019 by wolc123

[G-Man]

23 minutes ago, mowin said:

Ya, ok.   

Guess on the same note, you've never used a hydro tractor.  And yes, I've got plenty of hrs on both.  Actually a LOT more on a 8n then my hydros. 

Sounds like someone doesn't quite know how to work a hydro... 

I have a hydro lawn mower, they are good for back and forth movement ,using a loader,mowing,  turning dirt, planting , spraying they do not measure up. , owning a hydro is a sad as buying a tractor that beeps in reverse..  there is a reason they are on compact and sub compact tractors, homeowners that buy such things are not familiar with clutch and gears.. and how they are used.. I just watched a video of friends who's neighbor had a hydro " tractor" try and pull posts out from a deck. No idea how to do it and eventually gave up and dug down and cut them.  My neighbor down the street started with hydro, and after using a geared traded in and got a geared.. they have a purpose just not doing farmworker on Any scale . Cant imagine skidding logs with a hydro up a slope with out using steering brakes and differential lock. Keeping foot on go pedal while steering and maintaining constant speed ....

[mowin]

2 minutes ago, G-Man said:

I have a hydro lawn mower, they are good for back and forth movement ,using a loader,mowing,  turning dirt, planting , spraying they do not measure up. , owning a hydro is a sad as buying a tractor that beeps in reverse..  there is a reason they are on compact and sub compact tractors, homeowners that buy such things are not familiar with clutch and gears.. and how they are used.. I just watched a video of friends who's neighbor had a hydro " tractor" try and pull posts out from a deck. No idea how to do it and eventually gave up and dug down and cut them.  My neighbor down the street started with hydro, and after using a geared traded in and got a geared.. they have a purpose just not doing farmworker on Any scale . Cant imagine skidding logs with a hydro up a slope with out using steering brakes and differential lock. Keeping foot on go pedal while steering and maintaining constant speed ....

Your comparing a lawn mower to a tractor???

I've skidded logs, hauled buckets full of stone on a side hill and NEVER had to touch my brakes.  It just doesn't work like your saying. 

Edited July 21, 2019 by mowin

[G-Man]

Just now, mowin said:

Your comparing a lawn mower to a tractor???

Most compact and sub compact hydrostatic " tractors " are in fact lawnmowers with loader and 3 pt... a homeowners tractor if you will. Like the difference between buying a John Deere's from a big box store and a dealer.. different lines.. not the same at all.. if your tractor takes a mid mount mower it's a mower... not a tractor