AR?

[Robhuntandfish]

Never been an AR guy but this has caught my eye.  Give me all the reasons i cant have one in NY before i think about it!  I have zero knowledge on AR's.  But i have looked a few times at these .410 Omni's.  You can get a 5 shot mag for them so if i did that is it compliant?  And yes i know lots of you wont like the .410 but i like the .410 round, lots of neat stuff for it.  And this gun is in my price range.  Now this was made off the .410 omni just tweaked a bit.  Is it even worth thinking about for NY ?? https://www.americantactical.us/5512/detail.html

 

Supposedly its not a pistol, its not a shotgun it falls in between?  Again i know ZERO about them. .....  just thought it would be a fun plinker. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

you have a link to the exact one you want. The link above doesn't look like the pic you provided. 

[Robhuntandfish]

31 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

you have a link to the exact one you want. The link above doesn't look like the pic you provided. 

The link is for the Omni but I think the pic is an Omni that's been lego'd up.  I like the one in the pic.  Short, small and light. But are either of them NY legal?  No idea on this stuff. 

[moog5050]

Either featureless or pinned and 16” barrel.   Don’t know whether a shorter is legal as a pistol.  That has two features so it would have to be pinned but barrel looks shorter than 16”.  

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Either featureless or pinned and 16” barrel.   Don’t know whether a shorter is legal as a pistol.  That has two features so it would have to be pinned but barrel looks shorter than 16”.  

This is one that tries to dance around the SBR laws. it isn't formally called a "stock" it is a "Blade" and designed to rest against your forearm while shooting it like a pistol. In reality it can also be shouldered. I'd have to read up and see it the shotguns get captured under the SBR laws.  I think shotguns in the SBR or state have barrel and over all length minimums set. 

[Robhuntandfish]

6 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Either featureless or pinned and 16” barrel.   Don’t know whether a shorter is legal as a pistol.  That has two features so it would have to be pinned but barrel looks shorter than 16”.  

The barrel with the Omni says 18.5 inch. Would it still have to be pinned for a 5 round mag? 

And sorry ......featureless?  Lol. Like I said no idea on these things. What does that mean.?  Thanks 

[Robhuntandfish]

2 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

This is one that tries to dance around the SBR laws. it isn't formally called a "stock" it is a "Blade" and designed to rest against your forearm while shooting it like a pistol. In reality it can also be shouldered. I'd have to read up and see it the shotguns get captured under the SBR laws.  I think shotguns in the SBR or state have barrel and over all length minimums set. 

Yeah that's kinda what I was coming across. A non NFA firearm?   Couldn't find if NY compliant. 

[moog5050]

1 minute ago, Robhuntandfish said:

The barrel with the Omni says 18.5 inch. Would it still have to be pinned for a 5 round mag? 

And sorry ......featureless?  Lol. Like I said no idea on these things. What does that mean.?  Thanks 

Sound like culver knows this better.   Features that I saw were collapsing stock and pistol grip.  Maybe it’s not a collapsible stock but definitely a pistol grip

[Robhuntandfish]

2 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Sound like culver knows this better.   Features that I saw were collapsing stock and pistol grip.  Maybe it’s not a collapsible stock but definitely a pistol grip

Oh okay so features like that aren't allowed?  I know the pistol grip etc is an issue but thought maybe with it being a shotgun it might not be

[moog5050]

Unless shotguns are different and assuming that muzzle is not threaded, it should be legal if you pin the mag or have a Thordsen stock installed. 

[Nomad]

My bad I read there description wrong it’s an 18.5 barrel . So a legal shotgun and not AOW .

 

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Nomad

[Robhuntandfish]

I've looked at these in pic several times and this I know is ok but have stubbled across the AR and it interests me but dunno if I want to dance around all the nys stuff for a plinker

[moog5050]

1 minute ago, Robhuntandfish said:

Oh okay so features like that aren't allowed?  I know the pistol grip etc is an issue but thought maybe with it being a shotgun it might not be

I assume it’s the same as a rifle. I know I can buy a 410 upper and put it on one of my lowers.  

[Robhuntandfish]

1 minute ago, Nomad said:

It has a 13 inch barrel and what  is  maybe arm brace , like you find on AR pistols , as doing this is easier then jumping through all the hoops to buy a SBR .

Now with shotguns ,there’s a classification called AOW ( any other weapon ) like the popular Mossberg shockwave a 14 inch barrel with raptor grip shotgun ,that’s legally not a shotgun and legal in NYS .

This appears to be similar I can’t tell everything for the picture and it’s not an area I’m too familiar with , it may fall under the AOW and not a SBS .

Youll need to do your homework on this .

Thanks . Yeah been trying to a bit but like all of us here, can't seem to put a finger on it to be sure.  Surfed a bunch trying to find out . Just I usually give up on it cause NY frustrates me enough where I don't feel I Need the gun.  It's just a want and yet don't want to be out of compliance.   But it is a neat little rig. 

[moog5050]

4 minutes ago, Nomad said:

From their site the one posted looks like the 13 inch barrel one , to me .
It has a 13 inch barrel and what  is  maybe arm brace , like you find on AR pistols , as doing this is easier then jumping through all the hoops to buy a SBR .

Now with shotguns ,there’s a classification called AOW ( any other weapon ) like the popular Mossberg shockwave a 14 inch barrel with raptor grip shotgun ,that’s legally not a shotgun and legal in NYS .

This appears to be similar I can’t tell everything for the picture and it’s not an area I’m too familiar with , it may fall under the AOW and not a SBS .

Youll need to do your homework on this .

Shockwave is not a semi.  I think this falls in the AR category.  So if barrel is under 16 then it’s an ar pistol For which I don’t know the rules.  If it’s 16 or longer, no pistol grip, no collapsible stock and no threaded muzzle and you are good.  Or pin the mag with one or more of those features.   My best guess.  

[Robhuntandfish]

Just now, moog5050 said:

Shockwave is not a semi.  I think this falls in the AR category.  So if barrel is under 16 then it’s an ar pistol For which I don’t know the rules.  If it’s 16 or longer, no pistol grip, no collapsible stock and no threaded muzzle and you are good.  Or pin the mag with one or more of those features.   My best guess.  

Shockwave is a.pump so yeah that prob gets away with more. And the Omni is sold as an AR platform but if put together like in pic with pistol grip and collapsed stock make it illegal? Even though it's a 5 shot shotgun and barrell is still over 18"?   My 1187 12 g is a 5 shot semi, seems ridiculous. Lol. 

[Nomad]

7 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Shockwave is not a semi.  I think this falls in the AR category.  So if barrel is under 16 then it’s an ar pistol For which I don’t know the rules.  If it’s 16 or longer, no pistol grip, no collapsible stock and no threaded muzzle and you are good.  Or pin the mag with one or more of those features.   My best guess.  

they’re coming though , great for the gold bag !
 

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/10/black-aces-tactical-announces-shockwave-semi-non-nfa/#axzz6DsDWKNuZ

Edited February 13, 2020 by Nomad

[moog5050]

Just now, Robhuntandfish said:

Shockwave is a.pump so yeah that prob gets away with more. And the Omni is sold as an AR platform but if put together like in pic with pistol grip and collapsed stock make it illegal? Even though it's a 5 shot shotgun and barrell is still over 18"?   My 1187 12 g is a 5 shot semi, seems ridiculous. Lol. 

If it’s an AR you cannot have any banned feature unless the mag is pinned.  That includes grip and collapsible stock.  Yes it’s assured.  Any semi hunting rifle can do the same thing as an AR with a pistol grip and collapsible stock.  The wisdom of our safe act. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

In the config you are showing it would have to be classified as a pistol and placed on a NY pistol permit. 

Being a "pistol" is would fall under the Pistol section of this. If you got it longer it would fall under the shotgun portion of this. 

(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following characteristics:
50 (i) a folding or telescoping stock;
51 (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
53 (iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;
54 (iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

( So in the shotgun form you would need to only have ONE of the above. I can't see this being made to comply unless you pinned a fixed 5 shot mag and pinned the stock or used one of the complying AR style weird stocks. )

55 (c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:
1 (i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
3 (ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
5 (iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
8 (iv) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded;
 

( in the pistol state you are toast on #1. I can't tell on #2. Strike 2 on #3,  and I don't know in that config for #4. The rifle is 6.5" unloaded so not sure in the pistol config.)

 

My 2 cents. I think it would be more bother than fun in the People's Republic of NY

[Robhuntandfish]

1 minute ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

In the config you are showing it would have to be classified as a pistol and placed on a NY pistol permit. 

Being a "pistol" is would fall under the Pistol section of this. If you got it longer it would fall under the shotgun portion of this. 

(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following characteristics:
50 (i) a folding or telescoping stock;
51 (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
53 (iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;
54 (iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

( So in the shotgun form you would need to only have ONE of the above. I can't see this being made to comply unless you pinned a fixed 5 shot mag and pinned the stock or used one of the complying AR style weird stocks. )

55 (c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:
1 (i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
3 (ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
5 (iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
8 (iv) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded;
 

( in the pistol state you are toast on #1. I can't tell on #2. Strike 2 on #3,  and I don't know in that config for #4. The rifle is 6.5" unloaded so not sure in the pistol config.)

 

My 2 cents. I think it would be more bother than fun in the People's Republic of NY

Lol. See I knew you guys would know! Or at least backup what I was finding.  Thanks Bob. And yeah that's where I keep ending at.... Like it , but not worth the dance.  If I lived south of here in the United States I would prob have one. 

[Nomad]

Or you could do like 90 some percent of NY AR owners and not comply . Throw some tea in the harbor and all that .

[Deleted Account]

I'm not an AR guy either, mainly because I think they're ugly as sin  I just can't find the appeal of black guns.

My opinion is that you can buy a really nice .410 for that money, but to each their own

Good luck!

Edited February 13, 2020 by Splitear_Leland

[Robhuntandfish]

9 minutes ago, Splitear_Leland said:

I'm not an AR guy either, mainly because I think they're ugly as sin  I just can't find the appeal of black guns.

My opinion is that you can buy a really nice .410 for that money, but to each their own

Good luck!

I was gonna camo dip mine! 

I like the revolver rifle in 410.  Handled those a couple of times and almost bought. I do have a judge pistol already and really like it. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

It reads like a shot gun is a bigger pain than a rifle.

[Gencountyzeek]

The safe act isnt ar based its any semi auto. If its got a detachable mag it has to be featureless. This includes shotguns and pistols that except a magazine outside of the pistol grip. The pic above is a definite no no in this state if wanting to stay compliant.