Planting apples?

[Fletch]

Where is Wafters??

I have a bunch of crab apple trees in the back yard that produce a lot of apples but they are fallen and gone by the end of September. The deer just Hoover them. Then I have about 20 old ones in the woods that are old and unkept that do not produce. A few years back I tried cleaning them out and pruning and fertilizing to try to revive them but no luck. I need to just plant new ones!! But I want ones that stay longer. And I do not have a green thumb! I have bought very small oaks, pines, and a couple walnuts for planting and nothing has made it but a few pines!

[SilverSalmon586]

The beauty of the deer packs (assuming the amish place is slaubaugh's - if so they get their trees from Wafler's I asked them) is the trees they pick are ones that keep their apples until January. Some from July - January, I have Golden Russet's too - an old heirloom variety - really sweet. They seem to be some of the best besides the disease resistant ones.

[Fletch]

SilverSalmon, where is Waflers?

Edited December 23, 2011 by Fletch

[SilverSalmon586]

Wolcott, NY - they are the biggest commercial grower east of the Mississippi (half a million trees a year) but their nursery manager is a guy (Bill) who has become a friend since he's helped me so much. He's a big time hunter so he knows both ends. I think the web site is Waflernursery.com. They started doing deer packs a few years ago (10 to a pack) and that's when I started getting 10/year. So far so good...

[HUNT6246]

Silver Salmon - Yes, I got my trees from Schlabach's on Murdoch Rd. with a Medina address. They're located roughly between Lyndonville and Medina. I started with 10 trees this year. They said I was late because I didn't plant until the end of May. I know that I lost at least a couple. But, we had a long dry spell and I wasn't home to water them like I probably should have. What's left looks good and they've done much better than trees I've tried from other nurseries. One other thing that I don't believe was covered is that the new trees should be pruned somewhat to help them put growth into a root system the first year. At least that was what I was always told and my family was in the fruit farming business for many years so that's what I did.

[SilverSalmon586]

Hunt 6246, you should see a color circle spray painted where the rootstock meets the apple graft, that's Wafler's signature coding. They grow them for Schlabach's. End of May is late, but not crazy. The fact that we didn't have any rain for 2 months was the killer, sounds like all things considered you made out great. I usually try and get mine in the ground 4/1. I agree, I have 120 other apple trees for an eventual roadside stand (our son) and you should prune them before they're planted. I hate doing it to wild plantings because I want to make sure they're above browsing height. What I usually do is prune back or out some of the side branches and let the central leader go - just my 2 cents. With our home plantings I take out any branches lower than about 20 inches above the ground and also any branches growing vertical. The best rootstock I've found for wild plantings is B118, it grows almost standard size but is much more quicker in bearing than M111 (same size). Both are pretty drought resistant once established. Anything smaller needs TLC (M7, G30, M106 - I wouldn't go any smaller than M7 or G30). Again, just my 2 cents from a guy who grows trees for fun and also has 40 out there for the deer. It was really cool seeing the deer eating my "wild" Golden Russets this fall when in the stand.

[Doc]

Generally where ever you buy the trees from, they will supply pretty good planting instructions. I have found that apple trees are generally the most hardy of all the fruit trees And they do grow fast. I would suggest that you stay away from full dwarfs and go with the semi-dwarfs or the standards. The reason, the deer will nip the buds on the dwarfs so you want something that will eventually become deer-proof so that fruit will develop. Also, as was mentioned, protect them with fencing until they get some good height on them (that's not optional). The deer will wreck them otherwise. Even after they have gotten a bit of size, some fencing protection is a good idea. I had one tree that was doing pretty good until some buck decided it should altered a bit. So he turned it into a rub and busted the trunk in half.

Frankly, I wouldn't mess with the crab-apples. Sometimes it's pretty nice to grab an apple to eat while you are up on the hill. But then that's just me ..... lol.

[cbx46]

What about a wet squishy stream bottom? Also my buddy who has alot of nice trees said bugs will kill them in a woods clearing so I was thinking about going with the wild appples or "toringo apples?" from saratoga seedling sale via DEC.

[Suilleabhain]

We had a guy on our road offer us apple trees 20 years ago. He would dig them out with his backhoe and deliver them to us. We just had to plant them. Members passed on it, too much work. So 10 years after that one of teh members planted trees at the club's expense. Present day, the trees we were offered look like an orchard and the ones we planted look like Charlie Brown apple trees. If you can get local stock take it.

[troutman]

Lots of good info already posted. just a few points that I have learned from playing around with some trees and also working in the horticulture field...

1. Crab apples are self fruiting while apples are not, meaning you need different varieties of apples that flower at the same time to get pollination. There are charts you can find online with suggested cross pollinators. Crab apples can actually pollinate almost all apples species and planting one or two near your apple trees is a good practice to ensure pollination (also done in commercial apple orchards.)

2. My experience is that the crab apples, being self pollinating are more reliable fruit producers than regular apple trees.

3. The thinking that bigger apples are better may be a myth. Ever see a deer try and eat a big ole juicy apple? Kind of awkward for them to try and get the thing into their mouth and actually can be quite comical. LOL. Crab apples are single bite sized morsals, much easier for them to feed upon. The best in my opinon are some of the older varieties of crabs that are in between in size....about like a golf ball. Dolgo, Brandywine, etc. are a few such sized ones. Don't get me wrong, a deer will never turn down an apple, but I have witnessed them got to the smaller crab apples first, when side by side.

4. mix varieties that drop their fruit at different times. Some drop early, while some will persist right into the winter ensuring a constant food supply.

5. unless you are able to water these trees thru the summer, plant the trees in the fall. At this time of year they go dormant anyways, and there is much moisture in the ground. By the time summer hits the following year, the trees will have taken root and have a better chance at surviving through the dry season that a tree planted in the spring.

6. Later summer and into the fall nurseries and big box stores start clearing their inventory of nursery stock, so keep your eye out for some good deals. This past fall I happened to be at Home Depot and stumbled upon fruit trees on clearance for 15.00 a piece. These were 6'-7' trees and an inch in caliper !

7. If you are hand selecting trees from a nursery, look for ones with taller branching habits, i.e. the branches are higher from the ground to keep away from critters.

8. tree collars are a must not just to protect the trunk from deer, but from more importantly from the bark eaters like rabbits and mice.

9. Don't over look planting Hawthorn trees. These are the man killers with the 1" thorns that sometimes are generically called 'thorn apples'. while not actually and apple tree, these produce that small, red, pea sized apple looking fruit that deer, grouse, etc. will also feed upon and provide good cover when planted close together (ever try walking through a grove of these...ouch). There are certain ornamental cultivars of this tree like 'Winterking' that will hold its fruit late, almost until the next spring.

10. Fruit trees in general don't like 'wet feet', meaning they prefer dier soils. Don't attempt them in soils that are soggy or stay real moist even into the summer, they will die from root rot.

[cbx46]

#10 hahhah guess ill have to plant them by a diffrent stand looks like white cedar for the wet stand.

[SilverSalmon586]

Great advice by all. The rootstocks (in my home orchard and experience) that are more tolerant to wet/dry soil are M111 and B118. M7 is ok as is G30, G30 will get you apples by the 2nd but neither gets too big - a problem for browsing deer. M26 and M106 are extremely sensitive to "wet feet" so stay away from them (collar rot). Again, M111 and B118 are great for drought or moderately wet soil (not standing water). You have to have sun exposure for at least part of the day - i look for west exposure. B118 will simply fruit quicker (3 years vs. 5 years for M111). Again, that's just my experience. I totally agree with Doc, you'll need at LEAST 2 varieties, that's why the deer packs are so good they will give you 5 or more varieties so they can cross pollinate and also so you can get the deer patterned before the season. Doc, i agree too, I eat an apple on the way to the stand every time i venture out - I figure they taste good and might mask some breath issues!

[cbx46]

BTW, Virgil, if youd like to try growing some crab apples from seed, let me know, Id gladly pick some and ship them to you.

I am closing thurs on a trailer on 2 acres a mile from my hunting property there is an old mature crab apple tree behind the trailer that looks like the ground is trampled around it but there is also about 3 dozen crabapples on the flat roof as of late nov. if they are still there on thurs how would you go about growing crabapples from seed? Just bury them or bring em home and use pots?

[SilverSalmon586]

You won't have a true Crabapple - or at least the same as your original tree. The only way to have an "exact" match is to graft onto another tree or rootstock. It was pollinated by another apple or crab - it may ripen early, midseason, or late, just depends on it's "genetics". If you want to give it a shot it needs a certain # of "chill hours". With a crab it's probably 700 or so. That means taking the seeds and placing them in a frige (between 32-40) for at least a month. Then you'll want to plant them in a pot and transplant to single them to other pots. It'll take a few years - you won't be transplanting them into the field for 2-3 years. Good luck -

[WNYBuckHunter]

I am closing thurs on a trailer on 2 acres a mile from my hunting property there is an old mature crab apple tree behind the trailer that looks like the ground is trampled around it but there is also about 3 dozen crabapples on the flat roof as of late nov. if they are still there on thurs how would you go about growing crabapples from seed? Just bury them or bring em home and use pots?

I just buried a bunch, maybe 10 or 20 in each hole where I wanted them. I did it in the spring time. I have saplings growing in every spot I planted them in. No need to go through a bunch of extra for wild trees that propagate just fine on their own.

[cbx46]

ok cool i will give this a try next season

[erussell]

Any try russets before? My neighbor has a couple of russets and the deer cant keep off them. They are a small very sweet apple and kind of look like a russet tater. I kept about 100 seeds to try and grow this winter.

Edited January 4, 2012 by erussell