"There is no truth except Allah"

[wooffer]

Very well stated.

[growalot]

You speak of religion...I speak of God....the Name of God is corrupted through man made religions and in the Christians bible before... again... man made "rewrites"... God was called by many names and Allah was one of them...go look it up

[growalot]

Before this goes into some long foolishness let me put my personal beliefs out there then I'll drop it....

I believe in God...good and evil...and I support others peoples belief in God..what ever they deem to call their higher spirit

I DO NOT Believe in religion and religious doctrine for that is man made...it is and always has been humans way of controlling the masses...take a good look at history....God is not corruptible...but religious doctrine is

[Elmo]

growalot, well put.

[erussell]

You speak of religion...I speak of God....the Name of God is corrupted through man made religions and in the Christians bible before... again... man made "rewrites"... God was called by many names and Allah was one of them...go look it up

What " Christian bible before " are you refering to? The codex Sinaiticus was written 1600 yrs ago in greek and is basically the same translation used today with very little deviation found. And most deviations are names of places where things happend or peoples names. And what are your sources for there being rewrites? Names?

http://en.wikipedia....odex_Sinaiticus

And no matter what anyone say's the Allah of the Koran and the God of the bible are in now way related. There are huge theological divides between both. one is, Allah makes you work for your place in heaven and even then there is no promise youll get there, except through Martyrdom. Also Muslims beleive Jesus was just a prophet who was made to look dead on the cross but really wasnt. and is not the son of God.

Edited February 17, 2012 by erussell

[Doc]

Oh boy ....... politics and religion. Two discussion topics that are guaranteed to wind up to eventually erupt into warfare. Probably not the best of forum topics. Always excellent trolling bait though......lol.

[nyantler]

You speak of religion...I speak of God....the Name of God is corrupted through man made religions and in the Christians bible before... again... man made "rewrites"... God was called by many names and Allah was one of them...go look it up

No.. I'm speaking of my God... which I believe is the true God... using your premiss.. these gods would be the same as my God... sorry.. but it just ain't so!

Zeus

Poseidon

Hades

Hestia

Hera

Ares

Athena

Apollo

Aphrodite

Hermes

Artemis

Hephaestus

[growalot]

No not for me Doc..as I said I believe in God or what ever name a person wants to put to him

The sad thing I find is the lack of insite humans have...as far as Muslims and the Koran.... the terrorists took the Koran and corrupted it's meanings.... jihad is a power play...as the Christian holy wars were and the Salem witch hunts ...look through out history and the belief in God...How many wars and ethnic"cleansing " have happened in the name of God...but that's not so...it was in the name of MAN made religious doctrine that these things happened

[growalot]

nyantler....Thank you for using Greek mythology to prove my point..wait..wait...go back and read what I wrote and think

[nyantler]

so, grow.. you're saying that THOR, the god of thunder, is the same as Allah?

[growalot]

erussell..Thanks for the link...proves another point...

The Codex was probably seen in 1761 by the Italian traveller, Vitaliano Donati, when he visited the Monastery of Saint Catherine at Sinai. His diary was published in 1879, in which was written:

"In questo monastero ritrovai una quantità grandissima di codici membranacei... ve ne sono alcuni che mi sembravano anteriori al settimo secolo, ed in ispecie una Bibbia in membrane bellissime, assai grandi, sottili, e quadre, scritta in carattere rotondo e belissimo; conservano poi in chiesa un Evangelistario greco in caractere d'oro rotondo, che dovrebbe pur essere assai antico".

^[76]

In this monastery I found a great number of parchment codices ... there are some which seemed to be written before the seventh century, and especially a Bible (made) of beautiful, very large, thin and square parchments, written in round and very beautiful letters; moreover there are also in the church a Greek Evangelistarium in gold and round letters, it should be very old.

The "Bible on beautiful vellum" is probably the Codex Sinaiticus, and the gold evangelistarium is likely Lectionary 300 on the Gregory-Aland list.^[77]

Tischendorf in 1870

In 1844, during his first visit to the Monastery of Saint Catherine, Leipzig archaeologist Constantin von Tischendorf claimed that he saw some leaves of parchment in a waste-basket. He said they were "rubbish which was to be destroyed by burning it in the ovens of the monastery",^[78] although this is firmly denied by the Monastery. After examination he realized that they were part of the Septuagint, written in an early Greek uncial script. He retrieved from the basket 129 leaves in Greek which he identified as coming from a manuscript of the Septuagint. He asked if he might keep them, but at this point the attitude of the monks changed. They realized how valuable these old leaves were, and Tischendorf was permitted to take only one-third of the whole, i.e. 43 leaves. These leaves contained portions of 1 Chronicles, Jeremiah, Nehemiah, and Esther. After his return they were deposited in the Leipzig University Library, where they still remain. In 1846 Tischendorf published their contents, naming them the 'Codex Friderico-Augustanus' (in honor of Frederick Augustus).^[79] Other portions of the same codex remained in the monastery, containing all of Isaiah and 1 and 4 Maccabees.^[80]

In 1845 Archimandrite Porfirij Uspenskij (1804–1885), at that time head of the Russian Ecclesiastical Mission in Jerusalem and subsequently Bishop of Chigirin, visited the monastery and the codex was shown to him, together with leaves which Tischendorf had not seen.^{[n 5]} In 1846 Captain C. K. MacDonald visited Mount Sinai, saw the codex, and bought two codices (495 and 496) from the monastery.^[81]

The codex was presented to Alexander II of Russia

In 1853 Tischendorf revisited the Monastery of Saint Catherine to get the remaining 86 folios, but without success. Returning in 1859, this time under the patronage of Tsar Alexander II of Russia, he was shown the Codex Sinaiticus. He would later claim to have found it discarded in a rubbish bin. (However, this story may have been a fabrication, or the manuscripts in question may have been unrelated to Codex Sinaiticus: Rev. J. Silvester Davies in 1863 quoted "a monk of Sinai who... stated that according to the librarian of the monastery the whole of Codex Sinaiticus had been in the library for many years and was marked in the ancient catalogues... Is it likely... that a manuscript known in the library catalogue would have been jettisoned in the rubbish basket." Indeed, it has been noted that the leaves were in "suspiciously good condition" for something found in the trash.^{[n 6]}) Tischendorf had been sent to search for manuscripts by Russia's Tsar Alexander II, who was convinced there were still manuscripts to be found at the Sinai monastery. The text of this part of the codex was published by Tischendorf in 1862:

[ants]

Nice term paper

[growalot]

Ya ...heres a bit more ...Thanks to erussels link...Gee no man made manipulation there....

The text of the New Testament lacks several passages:^[17] Omitted verses

• Gospel of Matthew 12:47, 16:2b-3, 17:21, 18:11, 23:14, Matthew 24:35;
  
• Gospel of Mark 7:16, 9:44, 9:46, 11:26, 15:28, 16:9–20 (Long ending of the Gospel Mark, referring to the appearance of Jesus to many people following the resurrection)
  
• Gospel of Luke 17:36
  
• Gospel of John 5:4, Pericope adulterae (7:53–8:11) (see Image "John 7:53–8:11"), 16:15, 20:5b-6, 21:25
  
• Acts of the Apostles 8:37; 15:34; 24:7; 28:29;^[18]
  
• Epistle to the Romans 16:24
  

Page of the codex with text of Matthew 6:4–32 Omitted phrases

• Matthew 5:44 εὐλογεῖτε τοὺς καταρωμὲνους ὑμᾶς, καλῶς ποιεῖτε τοῖς μισοῦσιν ὑμᾶς (bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you);^[19]
  
• Matthew 6:13 – ὅτι σοῦ ἐστιν ἡ βασιλεία καὶ ἡ δύναμις καὶ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας. ἀμήν (For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.) omitted.
  
• Matthew 10:39a – ο ευρων την ψυχην αυτου απολεσει αυτην, και (ηe who finds his life will lose it, and);^[20]
  
• Matthew 15:6 – η την μητερα (αυτου) (or (his) mother);^[21]
  
• Matthew 20:23 και το βαπτισμα ο εγω βαπτιζομαι βαπτισθησεσθε (and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with)^[22]
  
• Matthew 23:35 – υιου βαραχιου (son of Barachi'ah) omitted; this omission is supported only by codex 59 (by the first hand), three Evangelistaria (ℓ 6, ℓ 13, and ℓ 185), and Eusebius.^[23]
  
• Mark 1:1 – υιου θεου "the Son of God" omitted.
  
• Mark 10:7 – omitted και προσκολληθησεται προς την γυναικα αυτου (and be joined to his wife), as in codices Codex Vaticanus Graecus 1209, Codex Athous Lavrensis, 892, ℓ 48, syr^s, goth.^[24]
  

• Luke 9:55b-56a – καὶ εἶπεν, οὐκ οἲδατε ποίου πνεύματος ἐστε ὑμεις; ὁ γὰρ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου οὐκ ἦηλθεν ψυχὰς ἀνθρώπων ἀπολέσαι ἀλλὰ σῶσαι (and He said: "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of; for the Son of man came not to destroy men's lives but to save them) omitted as in codices: P⁴⁵, P⁷⁵, B, C, L, θ, Ξ, 33, 700, 892, 1241, syr, cop^bo;^[25]
  
• John 4:9 – ου γαρ συνχρωνται ιουδαιοι σαμαριταις (Jews have no dealings with Samaritans), it is one of so-called Western non-interpolations; omission is supported by D, a, b, d, e, j, cop^fay, it was supplemented by the first corrector (before leaving scriptorium);^[26]
  

Some passages were excluded by the correctors:

Additional phrase to John 21:7 on the margin – οι δε ειπον δι οληϲ τηϲ νυκτοϲ ε κοπιαϲαμεν και ουδεν ελαβομεν επι δε τω ϲω ρηματι βαλουμεν

• Matthew 24:36 – phrase ουδε ο υιος (nor the Son) the first corrector marked as doubtful, but the second corrector ( removed the mark.^[27]
  
• Mark 10:40 ητοιμασται υπο του πατρος μου (instead of ητοιμασται) – the first corrector marked "υπο του πατρος μου" as doubtful, but the second corrector removed the mark.^[28]
  
• In Luke 11:4 ἀλλὰ ῥῦσαι ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ τοῦ πονηροῦ (but deliver us from evil) included by the original scribe, marked by the first corrector (a) as doubtful, but the third corrector © removed the mark.^[29]
  
• Christ's agony at Gethsemane (Luke 22:43–44) – included by the original scribe, marked by the first corrector as doubtful, but the third corrector © removed the mark.^[30]
  
• Luke 23:34a, "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do" – it was included by the first scribe, marked by the first corrector as doubtful, but a third corrector removed the mark.^[31]
  

These omissions are typical for the Alexandrian text-type.[3

[steve863]

I could care less what any school wants students to sing. As long as we can sing Kumbaya on this forum, I'm good.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

THE quintessential Holier than thou thread.

[Single_shot]

Oh boy ....... politics and religion. Two discussion topics that are guaranteed to wind up to eventually erupt into warfare. Probably not the best of forum topics. Always excellent trolling bait though......lol.

Good one Doc. Think I will stay on the sidelines.

[erussell]

No not for me Doc..as I said I believe in God or what ever name a person wants to put to him

The sad thing I find is the lack of insite humans have...as far as Muslims and the Koran.... the terrorists took the Koran and corrupted it's meanings.... jihad is a power play...as the Christian holy wars were and the Salem witch hunts ...look through out history and the belief in God...How many wars and ethnic"cleansing " have happened in the name of God...but that's not so...it was in the name of MAN made religious doctrine that these things happened

In the last 100 yrs more atroc. have been committed in the name of Atheism than even Islam. So whats your point.

[Phillygunns]

Aw! Pass me the chili, beer and pickled eggs. I'm gonna make a stink about this.

[Ford]

I would not usually comment on on such a thread, because I pretty much "gave up."

The news clips of "ordinary" muslims dancing in the streets (9/11) all over the world says enough for me.

The deafening silence of most (muslims) since then, says it all. There are a few, very few, who have come out in opposition to their radical bretheran. The moderate ones deny that it was even muslims that perpetrated 9/11. They say the Jews were resopnsible. And they believe it. I actually have talked to a few, I do not try to argue, what is the point? If there was some kind of poll that would ask muslims "who was responsible for 9/11?" I would guess that 95% would say Israel.

[wooffer]

In the last 100 yrs more atroc. have been committed in the name of Atheism than even Islam. So whats your point.

On 9/11 around 2500 people died in a single day due Islam. Genocide in Darfur has also taken thousands of lives in the name of Islam only recently. Can you give me some examples of atheists commiting such genocide?

[wooffer]

I would not usually comment on on such a thread, because I pretty much "gave up."

The news clips of "ordinary" muslims dancing in the streets (9/11) all over the world says enough for me.

The deafening silence of most (muslims) since then, says it all. There are a few, very few, who have come out in opposition to their radical bretheran. The moderate ones deny that it was even muslims that perpetrated 9/11. They say the Jews were resopnsible. And they believe it. I actually have talked to a few, I do not try to argue, what is the point? If there was some kind of poll that would ask muslims "who was responsible for 9/11?" I would guess that 95% would say Israel.

Very few Muslims have been brave enough to speak the truth. One guy featured in this documentary has.

http://www.thethirdjihad.com/