Here is where our taxes go for Education

[adirondackbushwhack]

Lest you think I'm a teacher, I am not. I am a retired city cop. Voting no on the school budget will do you no good. They will only put the same budget up for a second vote and when it is defeated they will pass the exact same budget anyway as an emergency budget. I've seen it done before. I agree there must be reform BUT siding with those who broke the system (politicians) will not fix the problem it will only worsen it. If it's reform you want you're not going to get it by going after the employees, the only way you'll get it is by going after those who make and run the system. Cuttting teachers pay in half will give zero tax releif. The politicians are after that money so they can spend it someplace else and NOT for tax releif.

[adirondackbushwhack]

_{Here's another thought for those of you sucked in by the politicians into the anti-union thing. As the union employees pay goes so follows the private sector pay scale. So while you may think that your own pay is immune to the cuts sought after by the politicians eventually those cuts will catch up with you too in the form of cuts or lost raises.}

[sits in trees]

all i know is over 2/3rds of my over inflated tax bill goes for school tax.....its unsustainable and you can spin it anyway you like, its all gonna go bust. all leading economist totally agree. there isnt even a maybe on this situation, it will fail.

remember in the movie the Titanic when the chief designer of the ship had the press guy say to him "she cannot sink" and he replied....she's made of iron, it's a mathamatical certainty, Titanic will flounder....well there you have it, NY will flounder...

[sits in trees]

here teachers read this....

http://www.empirecenter.org/Special-Reports/2010/12/pensionexplosion120710.cfm

[WNYBuckHunter]

For all of you public sector union guys, you are all deluded. You pay no taxes seeing as tax dollars pay your salaries and keep your benefits going. You guys are supposed to be serving us, the people that provide your income, not the other way around. That has been tried many times in the past, and always collapses, and it will again, youll see. Its already started, you know how many people out there have their teaching degrees and cant find jobs? I know many of them, one of which is my fiance. Has a semester to go for her masters, with close to a 4.0 gpa from one of the most highly accredited education universities in the country. Cant even find positions to apply for, and when she does, the stack of resumes numbers in the hundreds. She doesnt care about a big salary, she just wants to teach and make a difference in kids lives,same reason she loves coaching.

[nyantler]

Lest you think I'm a teacher, I am not. I am a retired city cop. Voting no on the school budget will do you no good. They will only put the same budget up for a second vote and when it is defeated they will pass the exact same budget anyway as an emergency budget. I've seen it done before. I agree there must be reform BUT siding with those who broke the system (politicians) will not fix the problem it will only worsen it. If it's reform you want you're not going to get it by going after the employees, the only way you'll get it is by going after those who make and run the system. Cuttting teachers pay in half will give zero tax releif. The politicians are after that money so they can spend it someplace else and NOT for tax releif.

It's not just about cutting teachers pay.. it's about cutting the budgets period... making schools work within their means... we don't need million dollar sports fields, lavish teachers lounges, electric sign banners outside the schools... olympic pools, weight rooms that rivals major health clubs... school buses manufactured my Mercedes... etc. etc. ... I have a better idea... get the taxpayers together to create the budget... instead of school boards... when it's your money being spent it's much easier to make the cuts that are needed...

[sits in trees]

Lest you think I'm a teacher, I am not. I am a retired city cop. Voting no on the school budget will do you no good. They will only put the same budget up for a second vote and when it is defeated they will pass the exact same budget anyway as an emergency budget. I've seen it done before. I agree there must be reform BUT siding with those who broke the system (politicians) will not fix the problem it will only worsen it. If it's reform you want you're not going to get it by going after the employees, the only way you'll get it is by going after those who make and run the system. Cuttting teachers pay in half will give zero tax releif. The politicians are after that money so they can spend it someplace else and NOT for tax releif.

this is just the way the teachers unions want us to think, aaahhh dont bother voting NO, you wont win anyhow!!! dont listen to this folks, every year more and more school budgets are being voted down in NY and budgets are being reduced and teachers are bing laid off....like i said, VOTE NO, if it comes up for a revote, then vote NO again. the reason alot of these budgets get voted thru on a second vote is the unions know only half the people who voted NO the first time wont show for the second vote..this is their game folks and they are very good at it!! Edited March 18, 2012 by sits in trees

[Pav2704]

For all of you public sector union guys, you are all deluded. You pay no taxes seeing as tax dollars pay your salaries and keep your benefits going. You guys are supposed to be serving us, the people that provide your income, not the other way around. That has been tried many times in the past, and always collapses, and it will again, youll see. Its already started, you know how many people out there have their teaching degrees and cant find jobs? I know many of them, one of which is my fiance. Has a semester to go for her masters, with close to a 4.0 gpa from one of the most highly accredited education universities in the country. Cant even find positions to apply for, and when she does, the stack of resumes numbers in the hundreds. She doesnt care about a big salary, she just wants to teach and make a difference in kids lives,same reason she loves coaching.

Isn't this the reason that most people become educators?

I love how everyone has agendas!!! Teachers in this forum are scum, unitelligent, and money hungry... except when it's someone they know or are related to them. Then all of a sudden they are becoming teachers because they want to truly make a difference in a student's life.

Let me ask you this, when your finance gets a teaching job, is she going to take the outlandish benefits and salary? Or is she going to simply volunteer because she doesn't care about the money?

AGENDAS!!!

Edited March 18, 2012 by Pav2704

[nyantler]

Isn't this the reason that most people become educators?

LOL... Not any more... they like the big money for part-time work... its hard to even get teachers to stay after school any more for extracurricular activities... they are usually in their cars and home before the kids get on the bus to go home.

I love how everyone has agendas!!! Teachers in this forum are scum, unitelligent, and money hungry... except when it's someone they know or are related to them. Then all of a sudden they are becoming teachers because they want to truly make a difference in a student's life.

I'm pretty sure you just answered your first question here... obviously you don't think his wife is sincere about why she wants to teach.. so you must think that is not the reason most people become educators

Let me ask you this, when your finance gets a teaching job, is she going to take the outlandish benefits and salary? Or is she going to simply volunteer because she doesn't care about the money?

She may have to volunteer, seems all the paying jobs got eaten up by the scum, unitelligent, and money hungry people

AGENDAS!!!

Agendas... yes indeed

[Geno C]

It's not just about cutting teachers pay.. it's about cutting the budgets period... making schools work within their means... we don't need million dollar sports fields, lavish teachers lounges, electric sign banners outside the schools... olympic pools, weight rooms that rivals major health clubs... school buses manufactured my Mercedes... etc. etc. ... I have a better idea... get the taxpayers together to create the budget... instead of school boards... when it's your money being spent it's much easier to make the cuts that are needed...

Joe is right about how the money gets spent...

the school right up the block just put in all brand new side walks, a 9/11 mural, a big electronic board in front of the school. Its crazy how fast the money is spent when someone else is paying for it... funny part is the side walks looked perfect and the 9/11 mural no one even goes near it...

[First-light]

Isn't this the reason that most people become educators?

I love how everyone has agendas!!! Teachers in this forum are scum, unitelligent, and money hungry... except when it's someone they know or are related to them. Then all of a sudden they are becoming teachers because they want to truly make a difference in a student's life.

Let me ask you this, when your finance gets a teaching job, is she going to take the outlandish benefits and salary? Or is she going to simply volunteer because she doesn't care about the money?

AGENDAS!!!

Pav,

These guys live in the stone age. Bitch about there taxes on Long Island, then get the F out. It's one of the most expensive places to live and you get the best for it. Plan for your future, you know the taxes aren't coming down. If you don't like it plan your exit and stop bitchen. Part time work, what a joke of a comment. I know so many teachers that go the extra mile. administrators have 12 month positions and are at school functions until 10 pm. Joe you still swinging a hammer at 10 pm......... Some of these comments are so outrageous and coming from a guy like woofer who thinks homosexuality is a mental disease says it all.

See ya.............

[wooffer]

Gone, you sound like a typical teacher. If you don't like it quit. Sorry but we built these communities and we are not gonna let union teacher scum run us off our property. Plus, who do you think is going to buy our homes when school taxes start equalling mortgage payments.

Save the long hour BS. Our LI teachers are contracted to work only 183 days a year and not all those of those are full-time. They are only required to actually teach 5 periods, which is less than 200 minutes a day. I'll save you the time to take your shoes and do the math, that is around 3 hours of work a day. Oh yeh, they have to watch the kids eat lunch and sit in a homeroom. Then they are out by 2:30PM. Anything extra and they get paid by the hour.

Average pay in my school district for this part time work is $110K a year. Doesn't matter what you teach. Even our gym teacher makes a $160K a year.

The teachers and their union are getting what they deserve.

Edited March 19, 2012 by wooffer

[adirondackbushwhack]

It's not just about cutting teachers pay.. it's about cutting the budgets period... making schools work within their means... we don't need million dollar sports fields, lavish teachers lounges, electric sign banners outside the schools... olympic pools, weight rooms that rivals major health clubs... school buses manufactured my Mercedes... etc. etc. ... I have a better idea... get the taxpayers together to create the budget... instead of school boards... when it's your money being spent it's much easier to make the cuts that are needed...

Except for cutting pay I agree. Stated as you have just done we are in agreement what I disagree with is taking the side of the politicians and agreeing with them that it is the teachers/workers fault that the taxes are out of control. Attacking the teachers/workers is the way the polticians want the people to go to keep the heat off of the real cause of the problem, mismanagment.

[adirondackbushwhack]

this is just the way the teachers unions want us to think, aaahhh dont bother voting NO, you wont win anyhow!!! dont listen to this folks, every year more and more school budgets are being voted down in NY and budgets are being reduced and teachers are bing laid off....like i said, VOTE NO, if it comes up for a revote, then vote NO again. the reason alot of these budgets get voted thru on a second vote is the unions know only half the people who voted NO the first time wont show for the second vote..this is their game folks and they are very good at it!!

Certainly you have the right to believe that if you want, in fact I encourage you to get as many people as you can to vote NO just as often as they keep putting the same budget up for a vote. But if you win and the budget is voted down a few times when they pass it anyway remember who the bad guys are. It's not the teachers/workers. Oh and by the way another tacktic they will use is threatening to do away with sports or some other thing that is popular if the budget is voted down. The politicinas are your enemy and they win by keeping you and your friends and neighbors seperated. As long as they can keep you after each other they know you'll never untite and go after them. It's the politicians who have put you on the scent of the teachers in the first place isn't it?

[sits in trees]

Certainly you have the right to believe that if you want, in fact I encourage you to get as many people as you can to vote NO just as often as they keep putting the same budget up for a vote. But if you win and the budget is voted down a few times when they pass it anyway remember who the bad guys are. It's not the teachers/workers. Oh and by the way another tacktic they will use is threatening to do away with sports or some other thing that is popular if the budget is voted down. The politicinas are your enemy and they win by keeping you and your friends and neighbors seperated. As long as they can keep you after each other they know you'll never untite and go after them. It's the politicians who have put you on the scent of the teachers in the first place isn't it?

your right, the politicians and teachers unions. that why its important to vote down these school budgets and thats why its important to vote in the right governors and so forth..if you read the news states like New Jersey are voting in politicians who are set on busting the teachers unions, yea thats right New Jersey, never thought i'de see the day. i dont agree with everything Chris Christie stands for but he is the teachers unions worst nightmare come to life..but by the way things are going in NY our Gov is promising changes and making deals that have no teeth(could you expect more from a Coumo) it looks like the system in NY will have to die a natural death, caused by an obese teachers union having a heart attack and falling on its face.

just look at the numbers on the site that Woofer provided, its not hard to see that the system is unsustainable. like i said before you can spin this a hundred differant ways but the end result will be the same and that will be a complete collapse of NY's educational system. and its going to be caused by the very union that promises to represent educators. privatizing education is becoming a reality in other states and is being looked at in NY, i never thought handing eduction over to corporations was a good idea but now i really dont care anymore because of what education in NY has become...

[sits in trees]

taxes in NY have double in the last 8 years. when is it going to be enough? are we going to have to pay 20 thousand plus bucks a year to live in an average middle class home here in NY. Long Island is losing people by the 10s of thousands over the last several years and so is the state and its mostly young people who probable could afford to buy a house now that prices have dropped but choose to leave because paying 1000 plus bucks a month for taxes is out of the question!

[wooffer]

The school system itself lacks any protection or safeguards for the taxpayer. One year our Board of Education President was a teacher and active member of the union. But that didn't stop her from signing a lucrative contract as President for the teachers/school district contract which she and her fellow teachers benefited from. Ethically this is considered a conflict of interest, but since the teachers union ad their members have no ethics it was done anyway.

Edited March 19, 2012 by wooffer

[Pav2704]

The school system itself lacks any protection or safeguards for the taxpayer. One year our Board of Education President was a teacher and active member of the union. But that didn't stop her from signing a lucrative contract as President for the teachers/school district contract which she and her fellow teachers benefited from. Ethically this is considered a conflict of interest, but since the teachers union ad their members have no ethics it was done anyway.

Woofer,

It's getting to the point that anything you say is totally ridiculous!!! A teacher and active union member would never become the Board of Education President. Your talk about teacher salaries is also totally ridiculous!!! If that teacher actually became a member of the board, which I highly doubt, why don't you tell everyone how they get those positions??? The public votes in board of education members!!! I truly have to laugh with outlandish statements!!!!

[wooffer]

PAV, I understand your doubt. I doubted these salaries where possible also. You can verify the teachers salaries yourself. The salaries shown on www. seethroughny.net are base and do not include benefits. I was just as shocked when I saw these numbers. Below are just a couple sample salaries from my school district. I am putting together a complete list but the average salary will be around or over $110K a year.

Search these names for the Locust Valley School District and verify at www.seethroughny.net. I believe you when you said you don't make this kinda of pay, but the union has done a job on our school district and will get around to yours too.

2ND Grade Teacher Becker, Tanya $122,034

1ST Grade Teacher Blask, Sherri $125,195

GYM Teacher Collins, Carolyn $128,627

2nd Grade Teacher Herlich, Kimmarie $118,657.

GYM Teacher McAndrew, Daniel $140,198.

These salaries are typical, NOT the exception. I know what you are thinking, "hey I have to get into that district". In all seriousness I would love to have a fellow hunter educating my kids over the libs we have now, but don't apply too soon. It seems unless you know someone you can't get into the district.

Edited March 19, 2012 by wooffer

[adirondackbushwhack]

your right, the politicians and teachers unions. that why its important to vote down these school budgets and thats why its important to vote in the right governors and so forth..if you read the news states like New Jersey are voting in politicians who are set on busting the teachers unions, yea thats right New Jersey, never thought i'de see the day. i dont agree with everything Chris Christie stands for but he is the teachers unions worst nightmare come to life..but by the way things are going in NY our Gov is promising changes and making deals that have no teeth(could you expect more from a Coumo) it looks like the system in NY will have to die a natural death, caused by an obese teachers union having a heart attack and falling on its face.

just look at the numbers on the site that Woofer provided, its not hard to see that the system is unsustainable. like i said before you can spin this a hundred differant ways but the end result will be the same and that will be a complete collapse of NY's educational system. and its going to be caused by the very union that promises to represent educators. privatizing education is becoming a reality in other states and is being looked at in NY, i never thought handing eduction over to corporations was a good idea but now i really dont care anymore because of what education in NY has become...

Be careful what you wish for. The governement media complex may have you convinced right now that teachers and unions are the bad guys, and in some cases union officials may be, BUT when they, the politicians, get what they want you will have less. All of this anger about salaries but no anger about those who approve them. Salaries are controlled by contracts and all that needs to be done is not approve any raises and negotiate lower salaries if neccissary. BUT the politicians are not happy with that, instead they want to break all of the unions. I have to ask why now it is neccissary to break the unions when all that was needed was to say NO to raises in the first place. Of course then there are also government mandates but I bet Chris Christy never mentioned anything about them in his quest to bereak the regular guy did he? You should always be careful when there is a simple solution to a problem and yet the politicians want an extreme solution.

Edited March 19, 2012 by adirondackbushwhack

[wooffer]

Be careful what you wish for. The governement media complex may have you convinced right now that teachers and unions are the bad guys, and in some cases union officials may be, BUT when they, the politicians, get what they want you will have less. All of this anger about salaries but no anger about those who approve them. Salaries are controlled by contracts and all that needs to be done is not approve any raises and negotiate lower salaries if neccissary. BUT the politicians are not happy with that, instead they want to break all of the unions. I have to ask why now it is neccissary to break the unions when all that was needed was to say NO to raises in the first place. Of course then there are also government mandates but I bet Chris Christy never mentioned anything about them in his quest to bereak the regular guy did he? You should always be careful when there is a simple solution to a problem and yet the politicians want an extreme solution.

In regards to the school taxes the unions are the problem. It is the unions that force these contracts upon the public and they are passed without any real honest participation by the taxpayer. True, the whole system of how contracts are negotiated and approved must change, but at least limiting annual caps is a start. Unions have their purpose, but protecting teachers and their 6 figure incomes is not one of them.

[Pav2704]

In regards to the school taxes the unions are the problem. It is the unions that force these contracts upon the public and they are passed without any real honest participation by the taxpayer. True, the whole system of how contracts are negotiated and approved must change, but at least limiting annual caps is a start. Unions have their purpose, but protecting teachers and their 6 figure incomes is not one of them.

Woofer,

You're are correct in saying that the unions and administrators negotiate the contracts, however, the Board of Education approves these contracts. The Board of Education is the group that is elected by the tax payers in the school district, REPRESENTING THE PUBLIC. So to say that the average joe doesn't have a say in our contracts is not correct. Go to your school board meetings, see who's on the board. If you don't like whats going on, vote for new board members or run for a position yourself. But, voting "No" at budget time has no effect on our contracts what-so-ever.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Isn't this the reason that most people become educators?

I love how everyone has agendas!!! Teachers in this forum are scum, unitelligent, and money hungry... except when it's someone they know or are related to them. Then all of a sudden they are becoming teachers because they want to truly make a difference in a student's life.

Let me ask you this, when your finance gets a teaching job, is she going to take the outlandish benefits and salary? Or is she going to simply volunteer because she doesn't care about the money?

AGENDAS!!!

First of all PAV, dont put words in my mouth. I never said any of those things about teachers. What i did say, however, is that teachers and other public employees should not be making the kind of salary a private sector employee makes, PLUS the big time benefits and retirement plans that they currently get. They should be allowed one or the other, not both.

Second, you dont know my fiance, or what she does and why. IF she eventually gets a teaching job, she will take what she gets, she wont be passing up positions in lieu of better pay. She will be more than happy just to be teaching. Right now she is a secretary at the school wellness center, which pays its own bills through running the community programs at the pool and fitness center.

BTW, you guys that rip the school fitness centers for costing alot, better check the figures, many of them offer community memberships and actually make a good bit even after salaries and operating costs. In the school my fiance works for, her department is the only one actually bringing in quite a bit more than it spends.

[nyantler]

Pav,

These guys live in the stone age. Bitch about there taxes on Long Island, then get the F out. It's one of the most expensive places to live and you get the best for it. Plan for your future, you know the taxes aren't coming down. If you don't like it plan your exit and stop bitchen. Part time work, what a joke of a comment. I know so many teachers that go the extra mile. administrators have 12 month positions and are at school functions until 10 pm. Joe you still swinging a hammer at 10 pm......... Some of these comments are so outrageous and coming from a guy like woofer who thinks homosexuality is a mental disease says it all.

See ya.............

No I must honestly say I am not swinging a hammer at 10 pm... I'm usually writing up estimates or doing other paperwork that I don't have time for during the 8-10 hour work day when I am swinging a hammer and I do that every week all year long... and you teachers always seem to know those couple teachers that go the extra mile... well.. I know a few of them too.. but I know way more that don't go the extra mile, and only work 6 hrs a day, and work nine months a year at full time pay bitching the whole time about how tough they have it... I would love to have all the holidays and summer off... but if I did that... I wouldn't get paid and wouldn't be able to pay the taxes that make it possible for the teacher to get paid for holidays and summer break... spin it how you like.. but you no longer are fooling us taxpayers.

[wooffer]

Woofer,

You're are correct in saying that the unions and administrators negotiate the contracts, however, the Board of Education approves these contracts. The Board of Education is the group that is elected by the tax payers in the school district, REPRESENTING THE PUBLIC. So to say that the average joe doesn't have a say in our contracts is not correct. Go to your school board meetings, see who's on the board. If you don't like whats going on, vote for new board members or run for a position yourself. But, voting "No" at budget time has no effect on our contracts what-so-ever.

Hey Pav, you are only partially right about the schhol board. Ours contains 5 members, only 3 need to agree to effect a change that effects 10,000 residents. Then there is the sad reality that the lack of ethics in how our school board is run. Meeting minutes not posted according to law, vote logs not made available to the public unless you you FOIL them. And allies of the union run and put on the board. I missed the deadline this year but I have actually decided to run for my school board next year.

Second topic, voting NO. I dis-agree, if the budgets are forced to be reduced due to budget cuts it will eventually leave less money for teachers contracts. It will force the school boards to actually have to negotiate a contract rather than sign the gold lined contract given to them by the unions. Will some teachers get laid off? Possibly if the members don't agree to concessions. Will this hurt the students, NO not at all. Most on this forum where taught in classes with up to 30 students and we had teachers, real teachers who didn't mind the job. I had the same teacher from morning until the end of the day while I was in 1st to 8th grade. Those where teachers and they did it because they loved to teach, not because they made a ton of money.