Big Pro Life Victory in Texas

[diplomat019]

I’ve heard people on this forum talk about Taking the lives of government officials who become tyrannical and taking the lives of illegals crossing the border all from the “conservative “ angle. So you would take the life of someone like that yet not take the life of an unborn fetus who would directly threaten your way of life?  That doesn't add up to me. 

[Just Lucky]

I dont approve of an abortion,  but I am pro choice. I definitely look down on that decision, but I also understand that there are worse things than death that an unwanted child will go through. I believe  abortion is murder, and humans are cruel.

Perhaps abortion is gods way of protecting a souls innocence. 

 

[Grouse]

10 hours ago, diplomat019 said:

With that being said, what is your answer?  You obviously don’t have to answer, but I’d be interested to hear the answer from someone who is pro life (hence why I posed it to wolc).   

I already answered this question for you.  You did not respond to it.

How anyone could assume a baby will grow up to be evil is beyond me.  A baby is innocence personified.  What it becomes will be determined by the people it is exposed to in life.  Evil people will have an evil effect on it.  Good people will have a productive effect on it.  The fact we have become a society where having mothers kill their own babies is acceptable, even defended, proves evil has become quite powerful in America today.

Abortion was designed to control population.  The founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, wanted to control the population of blacks to keep them under control, preventing them from becoming a threat to the majority.  Today, most abortions are done on blacks.  Those of you who claim to not be racist and morally superior to conservatives regarding abortion, need to explain how you can support what amounts to black genocide through abortion.

It is impossible to avoid questions about the morality of abortion until the issue of when life begins is legally established.  Our Constitution guarantees every individual the RIGHT to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  If we are going to be a society that determines things based on science, then deciding when life begins is a question for scientists to answer, and that answer has already been provided.  When the fetus has a heart beat, it is a LIFE.  Therefore, it is an individual, entitled to Constitutional protections, the same protections afforded to everyone else.  This is a simple example of being consistent when following the Rule of Law.

If you wish to support abortion beyond when a fetus has a heartbeat, you must be able to show later term abortions should be allowed regardless of laws against murder.

Is it self defense regarding the LIFE of the mother? (Not the health of the mother. That is legally too vague.) Is it a death sentence for an individual that has committed a capital offense?  Is it an enemy combatant?  What crime is the fetus guilty of that would allow the state to take it's life at the request of the mother?

As a Constitutionalist, these are the issues I see that have not been addressed in Roe v. Wade, and that is why that SCOTUS decision was legally flawed and needs to be revisited.  If Roe v. Wade had addressed the question of when life begins, we would not have had this ongoing debate about abortion for decades now. 

We are either a society that follows the Rule of Law, or one that rules with the political shifting winds, bowing to the demands of personal convenience.  History proves societies that have chosen that path have not survived for very long.  That is what is at the core of this abortion debate.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Grouse

[wolc123]

10 hours ago, Just Lucky said:

I dont approve of an abortion,  but I am pro choice. 

 

This indicates that you are lost and confused.   Texas is now on the right track.  Hopefully, NY gets things straightened out soon.

[diplomat019]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

I already answered this question for you.  You did not respond to it.

How anyone could assume a baby will grow up to be evil is beyond me.  A baby is innocence personified.  What it becomes will be determined by the people it is exposed to in life.  Evil people will have an evil effect on it.  Good people will have a productive effect on it.  The fact we have become a society where having mothers kill their own babies is acceptable, even defended, proves evil has become quite powerful in America today.

Abortion was designed to control population.  The founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, wanted to control the population of blacks to keep them under control, preventing them from becoming a threat to the majority.  Today, most abortions are done on blacks.  Those of you who claim to not be racist and morally superior to conservatives regarding abortion, need to explain how you can support what amounts to black genocide through abortion.

It is impossible to avoid questions about the morality of abortion until the issue of when life begins is legally established.  Our Constitution guarantees every individual the RIGHT to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  If we are going to be a society that determines things based on science, then deciding when life begins is a question for scientists to answer, and that answer has already been provided.  When the fetus has a heart beat, it is a LIFE.  Therefore, it is an individual, entitled to Constitutional protections, the same protections afforded to everyone else.  This is a simple example of being consistent when following the Rule of Law.

If you wish to support abortion beyond when a fetus has a heartbeat, you must be able to show later term abortions should be allowed regardless of laws against murder.

Is it self defense regarding the LIFE of the mother? (Not the health of the mother. That is legally too vague.) Is it a death sentence for an individual that has committed a capital offense?  Is it an enemy combatant?  What crime is the fetus guilty of that would allow the state to take it's life at the request of the mother?

As a Constitutionalist, these are the issues I see that have not been addressed in Roe v. Wade, and that is why that SCOTUS decision was legally flawed and needs to be revisited.  If Roe v. Wade had addressed the question of when life begins, we would not have had this ongoing debate about abortion for decades now. 

We are either a society that follows the Rule of Law, or one that rules with the political shifting winds, bowing to the demands of personal convenience.  History proves societies that have chosen that path have not survived for very long.  That is what is at the core of this abortion debate.

If you had a crystal ball and could see the future would you abort a marxist who wants to tear apart the constitution?

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, diplomat019 said:

If you had a crystal ball and could see the future would you abort a marxist who wants to tear apart the constitution?

No, I would get to that baby prior to it's indoctrination by evil leftists.  The societal problem of leftists, Marxists, Progressives and Communists isn't going to be solved by abortion.  Abortion is actually part of that collectivist ideology.

BTW, the fact you find my prior post laughable is disturbing.  It indicates you don't consider the Rule of Law or sanctity of human life to be of any value.  That's scary.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Grouse

[Chef]

This indicates that you are lost and confused.   Texas is now on the right track.  Hopefully, NY gets things straightened out soon.

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[diplomat019]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

No, I would get to that baby prior to it's indoctrination by evil leftists.  The societal problem of leftists, Marxists, Progressives and Communists isn't going to be solved by abortion.  Abortion is actually part of that collectivist ideology.

BTW, the fact you find my prior post laughable is disturbing.  It indicates you don't consider the Rule of Law or sanctity of human life to be of any value.  That's scary.

You said you would take up arms against a tyrannical govt (which you won’t and just keep flapping your gums) but you wouldn’t abort a tyrannical leftist before it could hurt the world?  

[diplomat019]

Tell us again how you will stand up to the government when you wear a mask outdoors and cant even stand up to your boss lol.  

[diplomat019]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

No, I would get to that baby prior to it's indoctrination by evil leftists.  The societal problem of leftists, Marxists, Progressives and Communists isn't going to be solved by abortion.  Abortion is actually part of that collectivist ideology.

 

How about you go to the inner city and adopt some children who will become leftists before it happens?   I believe in you and I believe that you can be the change that we need in this country!!!

[Buckmaster7600]

This indicates that you are lost and confused.   Texas is now on the right track.  Hopefully, NY gets things straightened out soon.

No, it indicates that he has commons sense!

I don’t support a lot of things that I support the freedoms for…


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[Grouse]

If someone attacks a pregnant woman and kills the fetus, that person can be charged with murder.  That tells you the law considers the fetus to be a person.

[Just Lucky]

On 9/6/2021 at 6:02 AM, wolc123 said:

This indicates that you are lost and confused.   Texas is now on the right track.  Hopefully, NY gets things straightened out soon.

No, just a realist on the evils of man. 

[Grouse]

Abortion and refusing to take personal responsibility for one’s actions have contributed to a general coarseness and disrespect for life at all stages, as witnessed by the shooting sprees regularly occurring in Chicago and other major cities. 

The question remains: Is abortion the cause of our increasingly decadent culture, or a reflection of it?

[BowmanMike]

15 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Abortion and refusing to take personal responsibility for one’s actions have contributed to a general coarseness and disrespect for life at all stages, as witnessed by the shooting sprees regularly occurring in Chicago and other major cities. 

The question remains: Is abortion the cause of our increasingly decadent culture, or a reflection of it?

Abortion leads to inner city shootings? That is an interesting statement, a bit of a stretch maybe? 

[Grouse]

Read it again.....slowly.

[BowmanMike]

6 hours ago, Grouse said:

Read it again.....slowly.

I could take all day to read it and still call bs on that. But what you consider logic and what I consider logic are two very different things.

[Grouse]

It appears to be willful ignorance.  

Is this logical to you?  "Abortion and refusing to take personal responsibility for one’s actions have contributed to a general coarseness and disrespect for life at all stages."

How about this?  "The strength or weakness of a society depends more on the level of its spiritual life than on its level of industrialization. Neither a market economy nor even general abundance constitutes the crowning achievement of human life. If a nation's spiritual energies have been exhausted, it will not be saved from collapse by the most perfect government structure or by any industrial development. A tree with a rotten core cannot stand." —Alexander Solzhenitsyn (1918-2008)

If you can't see the connection, I cannot help you.

 

[BowmanMike]

15 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It appears to be willful ignorance.  

Is this logical to you?  "Abortion and refusing to take personal responsibility for one’s actions have contributed to a general coarseness and disrespect for life at all stages."

How about this?  "The strength or weakness of a society depends more on the level of its spiritual life than on its level of industrialization. Neither a market economy nor even general abundance constitutes the crowning achievement of human life. If a nation's spiritual energies have been exhausted, it will not be saved from collapse by the most perfect government structure or by any industrial development. A tree with a rotten core cannot stand." —Alexander Solzhenitsyn (1918-2008)

If you can't see the connection, I cannot help you.

 

Yes,abortion leads to disrespect of life at all stages? where do you get that? 

Hunting leads to disrespect of all life is as true as your statement.  

 a big stretch,but it is fine if you think it validates your point. 

[Grouse]

Hunting leads to disrespect of HUMAN life?  Enlighten me.

You know exactly what I'm saying and are just blowing smoke to defend your position against all logic.

[BowmanMike]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Hunting leads to disrespect of HUMAN life?  Enlighten me.

You know exactly what I'm saying and are just blowing smoke to defend your position against all logic.

I know what you are saying but disagree on it being true. You just made that up,like I made up the other statement.

[Grouse]

OK, tell me what you believe is the reason we are now so callous with regard to human life in this country?

[BowmanMike]

26 minutes ago, Grouse said:

OK, tell me what you believe is the reason we are now so callous with regard to human life in this country?

A general decline in respect for much of anything? You are asking a very complex question but answered it very linear. There are a ton of factors involved,and we would have to get quite specific and wouldn't come up with the answers anyway. 

Are you asking about inner cities or in general,across the whole racial spectrum or what?

I may have some ideas,but not definitive answers. There is no direct line between cause and effect because there are so many factors involved. So when you make the statement that abortions lead to disrespect of life in general you are over simplifying.  That is all I am saying.