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Hunter Divisivenessand its Effect upon the future of Hunting

wztirem

By wztirem,
in General Hunting

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wztirem Newbie

wztirem

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The following may seem as a sop box thread on my part; but nonetheless:

While the introduction of crossbows, AR,QDM etc constitute important issues amongst the hunting community that are worth debating, what many of our fellow hunters do not realize is the magnitude of the efforts undertaken by the anti-hunters to stop hunting altogether. The antis feed on our divisiveness and as we should all realize is that they readily publish some of the rhetoric posted by our fellow hunters to support their positions to recruit new members to their cause.

Several posters to this forum, Sits in particular (you may not like him, oh well!) have posted comments regarding the efforts of anti hunters to abolish our right to hunt. Few if any posters have replied to such.

All I can say, (perhaps it is doom and gloom) is that the hunting fraternity better wake up and fast!

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wztirem Newbie

wztirem

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So what are you saying ? If someone makes a statement we all have to agree for fear of anti hunters , etc .. ?

That is not the point, debate is welcome and important!  Clearly, the anti-hunter bias and their attempts to eliminate hunting is a serious issue which requires consideration and discussion amongst the hunting fraternity.

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JCTheGC Newbie

JCTheGC

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Maybe I'm ignorant.  But how is arguing about AR and crossbows give the Anti's any additional material.  I mean with Crossbows the arguments are it shoots farther, it shoots more accurate, gives an advantage (Or Not depending on the view).  The AR is about growing (or Not) bigger bucks, improve herd (again or not).    ;) 

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Doc Experienced

Doc

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In the words of that great American, Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along" ..... Lol.

Seriously, I have not seen anything on this forum or any other hunting forums that would really be of any use to the anti-hunting groups that they don't already have the ability to come up with themselves, with one huge exception. That exception being those posts that try to convince hunters not to be organized. Probably one of the things that make it extremely easy for animal-rights wackos to push legislation and force referendums, and create public messages designed to change minds of those voters that are on the fence about hunting, is the fact that they are highly organized and financed and we are pretty much totally disorganized and I have seen topics on these forums (more so on this site's predecessor) devoted to convincing other hunters not to become organized. Whether we are for or against AR or crossbows, or high fences, food plots, baiting, or whatever, that is all insignificant and of little notice or use to anti-hunting groups. However, if you can successfully turn back membership to hunting organizations, you are doing their work for them. The biggest thing that animal rights groups fear the most is sportsmen who have banded together for political clout and solidarity. It's a death knell to them. I often wonder just what our firearms picture would look like today in the U.S. if it were not for the NRA. And yet I recall a debate on this forum's forerunner that had more hunters and gun owners than I would ever have expected criticizing the NRA and hawking all the reasons why people should not belong. That's the sort of thing that can do direct harm to hunting and gun ownership, not whether we argue about relatively minor subjects like crossbows and AR and such. Actually discussions of those kinds of things are useful as we sort out the nature of the sport for ourselves and among ourselves.

Doc

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steve863 Community Regular

steve863

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You know, I've been hearing this a lot as of late.  Hunters saying that we shouldn't argue or debate amongst ourselves and such.  I don't agree.  I don't think anything is ever accomplished without some form of dialogue between people.  The rabid anti-hunters are anti-hunting no matter what we say on sites like this.  I doubt they search thru threads on forums such as this looking for more things to use against us.  Even with the anti-hunting groups in this country hunting is STILL legal in all the states of this country.  They have done mighty little to persuade the majority of people that hunting should be abolished.  Yes, maybe they have won an isolated victory or two, but in general they have done little to keep us from hunting if we desire to.  In general there are more hunting opportunities today, with more game available than there was 50 years ago even with these anti-hunting groups out there.  The states want revenue to manage wildlife and they know HUNTERS are the ones who give them this revenue and NOT PETA and similar groups, and that is why hunting is no where close to being abolished.  Yes, there are less people hunting and fewer young people who want to hunt.  That is because of various different reasons and surely not because of any in fighting we do.  In general hunters have a lot of passion for there pastime, and it's only natural that they would want to debate issues and sometimes things can get a little heated.  I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.  Like I said, nothing ever gets resolved without some debate.

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steve863 Community Regular

steve863

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shall we all hold hands and sing aroun the campfire?

Depends on what this years annual sacrifice is. Goats are getting hard to find.

 

Maybe we could get Ted Nugent to strum a few chords on his electric guitar while we all sing "Kumbaya" around that campfire??  He can then howl like a wolf after we are done to give us that spirit of the wild feeling! 

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Doewhacker Newbie

Doewhacker

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I really don't see anti's as a real threat, I think we are the biggest threat to ourselves. Like Steve said we have more hunting now then ever, do you know something we don't? I'm not messing with you, I am honestly asking you a question here, what is their side doing that we should be scared of? I can't say I keep tabs on antis, they mostly come off as crazy kooks. Do you guys from the city run into them more, cause up here, there aren't any brave enough to speak up. Sometimes I forget where I live is different then others...

Look I made all the way through with out insulting any one.. ah enough of that, I was also wondering how you and sits fit on the same soap box, or do you take turns? Is that thing made of reinforced steel, it must be to support sit's ego. Sorry guys its Friday, and I am out on vaca half of next week...I am going totaly nugent over here.

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steve863 Community Regular

steve863

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I think people in cities generally don't like hunting, basically because they don't know a thing about it, and because the national media in general is certainly not pro-hunting.  But even with all this, the rabid anti-hunting crowd has honestly gotten NOTHING done to get it anywhere near abolished in NYS or anywhere else.  They are extremists and extremists on any side of the spectrum will not get the attention of the majority of people who in general are a lot closer to the center. 

Doe, your posts are hilarious!  Maybe they could build us a few treestands with that soap box material??  Heck, we could probably bring our entire families up on these stands during deer season.  Even a few overweight cousins and sister-in-laws!!

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steve863 Community Regular

steve863

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Maybe we could get Ted Nugent to ...

  ::(

What's the point?

Your obiously looking for any angle to keep speading the hate.

You think this is hate?  Hate is not a very nice word, and I honestly don't know if I hate anyone in all seriousness.  I don't know Nugent personally, so how could I really hate him?  I do think he is a lousy representative of hunters from what I have seen and heard of him and have never considered him a representative of who I am as a hunter.  I surely won't shy away from admitting that and would say this to hunters and non-hunters alike any day of the week.  If you perceive that as hate, so be it.

I will take your advice, Doe, and not say anything else about him in this thread.  It's seems like there are a lot of sensitive souls out there who can't even handle a joke if it invokes a certain individuals name. 

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Doc Experienced

Doc

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I've already spoken my piece about how I feel about discussions on these forums. Aside from the one area that I mentioned, there is no real harm in discussing anything that we feel needs resolution or simply sounding out. However, don't mistake that thought as some misguided idea that the animal rights crowd does not need to be taken seriously. I'm detecting a notion here that we feel we can be as complacent as we want when it comes to those freaks. Well, anyone can think that if they want, but along with our constant attacks on our own hunting organizations, I also view complacency as being a great danger to hunting. We are the ones who are totally disorganized. We are the ones who are apathetic. We are the ones that have no core organizations which are well financed to play the game in the courts and in the public. We have no right to be complacent. We have seen a cougar hunt here, a dove hunt there and a bear hunt here and there made illegal through the courts and through referendums. Don't think for a minute that the highly organized and financed animal rights organizations have not had their effect, and are not capable of continuing to have those effects. Also, don't believe for a minute that we have some kind of entitlement as we see our numbers diminishing. Oh, and speaking of diminishing numbers, don't belittle the role that the constant drumbeat of animal rights has played in that as new standards of political correctness regarding hunting keep being pushed and are being accepted by the general population. So don't be lulled into some false sense of security and start thinking that these wack-jobs aren't having an effect. They most certainly are. That is why I keep yapping about the need for organization. Our opposition is highly organized and because of the resources that come with organization, are able to afford legal challenges and public relations campaigns, all of which are having crushing effects on hunting and participation in hunting (whether we choose to admit it or not).

Yes I know this little side trip has little to do with the original topic, but some of the replies to this thread have indicated a complacency that I find just a bit chilling. No, I don't think there are a lot of the discussions found on this or any hunting forum that pose any kind of hazard to our hunting, but that is not to say that there aren't things going on in the world outside of forums that hunters shouldn't be finding very troublesome.

Doc

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Doewhacker Newbie

Doewhacker

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Ok, where do I find out what the anti's are up to. I want to know what we as hunters need to worry about. So far I keep reading that we need to watch out for anti's or we are going to loose hunting, but what are they up to in NY?

And Doc, I agree with you about the lack of orgnization of hunters, it seems to be a laughing matter some times for some of us.

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Doc Experienced

Doc

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Ok, where do I find out what the anti's are up to. I want to know what we as hunters need to worry about. So far I keep reading that we need to watch out for anti's or we are going to loose hunting, but what are they up to in NY?

And Doc, I agree with you about the lack of orgnization of hunters, it seems to be a laughing matter some times for some of us.

I know you said "in NY", but supper is almost ready so this is the best I could do. This page has a pretty extensive list of animal rights wacko organization and some info about what they are doing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animal_rights_groups

Doc

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wztirem Newbie

wztirem

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I think people in cities generally don't like hunting, basically because they don't know a thing about it, and because the national media in general is certainly not pro-hunting.  But even with all this, the rabid anti-hunting crowd has honestly gotten NOTHING done to get it anywhere near abolished in NYS or anywhere else.  They are extremists and extremists on any side of the spectrum will not get the attention of the majority of people who in general are a lot closer to the center. 

Doe, your posts are hilarious!  Maybe they could build us a few treestands with that soap box material??  Heck, we could probably bring our entire families up on these stands during deer season.  Even a few overweight cousins and sister-in-laws!!

Steve, Google Search "Animal Rights Groups in Upstate NY".

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