Doc

I would like to express my sincere condolences to you and your family.

Yes, back in the days before I evolved and came down out of the trees, Baker was the only game in town. I added all kinds of chains and other attachment features but never felt safe in it. So I began building welded up treestands with 36" x 36" platforms that were chain-on with jack screws. When installed they were a piece of the tree, not going anywhere. Then I still got to the point where I would have had to shoot my bow one-handed because I became afflicted with fear-of-heights .... I couldn't let go of the tree. Finally had to give up the monkey impression, and get down on the ground where I belong..... lol. It's been a much more pleasurable, relaxed and calm hunt from that day forward.

One thing no one has offered up is any documentation or public statements from the DEC or any other credible source that shows that bowhunters are anymore prone to passing does than gun hunters are. As far as I know, they have not ever justified their decision to make bowhunters shoulder the population control experiments. My suspicion is that the DEC wants bowhunters replaced by or supplemented by the more efficient firearms hunters in that segment of the season in order to increase the general deer take.

I have a special kind of respect for you guys that didn't sell out to the tech craze of the 70's like I eventually did. And the same for those who have discovered a love for doing it the old-school way. It is what archery season started out as and was established for. Back when the original archers worked to form a season for their particular form of deer hunting challenge they understood the value of handicapping themselves. It is good that a few still are preserving those ideals.

So with that point settled, back to the original point that I was making regarding the decision by the DEC to assign the task of thinning the herd to a season that has the least chance of success. Or even more peculiar is the choice to leave the fix completely out of the more efficient season. What really was the motive behind all of that. There is something going on there besides tackling a population problem. I think the threat to insert muzzleloaders into bow season (something they have wanted to do fir a decade) may be a clue as to what it really is all about.

Being a moderator is not an easy job. It requires scrutiny of the entire site including a lot of parts of it that you as a moderator would rather not spend time reading. And no matter what you decide there will be members that complain because something didn't get removed or edited and others that will claim to be unreasonably picked on. Its the same old thing between those that have authority and must occasionally exercise that authority and those that don't. As far as somebody getting away with something that another gets hammered for, just understand how many words have to be read daily in order to catch everything. It really is an impossible task. It's a thankless job that puts a target on your back that everybody likes to take a poke at ..... hence this thread. I threw in the towel a while back because it became obvious that you absolutely cannot and will not please everybody. And many times I felt more like a babysitter than a site moderator. The time effort and abuse simply was not something that I felt I should have to put up with. I am thankful that the other moderators so far have not made the same decision that I did. None of the mods need the grief and aggravation that seems to automatically come with the job. So instead of nit-picking and trying very hard to criticize, how about a bit of respect and appreciation for the tireless efforts that these guys put forth on your behalf. Bear in mind as you are typing your gripes, that without these guys, this site would be a zoo. The site administration provides a service, and believe it or not it is for your benefit. How about we be a little understanding about the size and difficulty of the job of keeping you all happy.

I remember all those decades of white knuckle drives for more than an hour, in the dark, out there before the snowplows, through the white-outs when I wasn't sure whether I was pointed down the road or about to head cross-lots into a hay field. Given the choice, I'll take a bit of humidity and trade the air conditioning bill for the heating bill. Yeah, I like the fall, but really have no use for what Fall is the pre-cursor to. The older I get, the less tolerant I am of winter.

No treestand harness for me anymore. I came out of the trees years ago. I'm on the ground, eyeball-to-eyeball now. Can't fall out of the ground .... lol.

So, did anybody see any caterpillar infestations this year ..... tent caterpillars? ...... Gypsy Moth Caterpillars? I didn't see a single one this summer. Not even one. I am used to seeing an annual attack on my fruit trees of one or the other or both, but not this year. Also, I thought I was going to escape the Japanese Beetles this year. They were late, but they eventually showed up. I beat them back again this year.

It is used in urban and suburban areas where firearms are not allowed. That's not exactly comparing apple to apples. Yes, the cities have nearly domesticated herds of deer which could be hunted with a cube of sugar and a club. But when you are talking a wild herd as they are in the areas effected here in NYS, trying to control populations with bows is an impossible task.

Well gun season hasn't changed a whole lot, but the real growth in hunting shows has been the ones that involve bowhunting. I remember when bow season was an oddity, a few of us guys would show up at work and the stories began to break out. It was a big deal if somebody saw a deer, and huge when somebody actually got a shot. And on the super rare situation where somebody actually got a deer (any deer), that story would survive several seasons. Today nobody wants to hear about the "almosts". And any deer that are taken have to have that first question, "What did it score?". And if the number isn't high enough, well, it's almost like it never happened. And if you say you got a doe, the group breaks up immediately and heads back to work. No wonder nobody wants to shoot does .... LOL. But as far as the 170" buck that you are talking about, it is these staged and scripted TV shows that I blame for that attitude of taking smaller deer being something that you feel you need to apologize for. Yes, that is the one thing that I have learned from those shows ..... They have the power to shift attitudes, ethics, and expectations in ways that are not necessarily good for hunting.

Actually, neither is welcome around my property.

What is negative about "fishing and nice cold beer under a shade tree, and munching down the stakes off the grill"? To each season there is a purpose. Enjoy each one before wishing it away. About the only negativity that I can think of is the howling winds and 3' snow drifts and the sub-zero temperature that I know will follow fall. I know what I will be thinking then, looking out the window debating whether to cancel appointments or not. I will be sitting there daydreaming about the tie of year we are in right now. Enjoy it. Don't wish it away.

No, it really comes down to the fact that bowhunters could not see a reason why they were the ones singled out to do an impossible job and then told that they would be punished if they didn't do it. Bowhunters also detected a lack of credibility as far as the DEC being serious about a doe reduction plan that uses the least efficient weapon. In terms of the muzzleloader threat in bow season, I think that that is the real motivation behind targeting bow hunters with this impossible challenge. The DEC made no secret of their desire to jam firearms (principally muzzleloaders) into bow season since they tried a decade ago to do exactly that. What better way to achieve that desire than to give bowhunters an impossible challenge with a firearms ultimatum if they don't succeed?

No, you get no free permissions to private land, just like the DEC doesn't offer you permission to private land. No guarantees at all. Not even a thank-you. But since that amount of money is insignificant, I'm just making it known that I will gladly take it.

I now reload all of my ammo, and I know exactly what is in there.

Yes, it must be a pretty tough racket because every so often one of them gets prosecuted for all kinds of poaching offenses. On the other hand, I have seen some unintended pictures of feeders that didn't make it to the cutting room floor. And I have seen the deer going by their stands with their tongues hanging out. And I have caught some of the unintended pictures of the tall fences. So there may be some that done completely free-range and fair chase, but I have caught enough filming mistakes to keep me from assuming that they are all anything like the conditions that non-pros have to hunt under. Many of these guys are hunting preserves and hunting ranches that would just love having the name of their outfit show up on hunting shows and go out of their way to ensure that these hunter-heroes have success when hunting their place. My biggest problem is that these programs devote little or no info to scouting and all the real preliminary necessary work that hunting is 90% about. And yes, those omissions do tend to lead one to question exactly who is really doing that part of the job. Is it the hunter, or the outfitter/guide.

Here's my experience with Winchester ammo ..... straight out of the box. It took sending two boxes back to Winchester at some ugly amount of un-reimbursed postage in order to get back some weird "Winchester Dollars" that was slightly less than what I paid for the original boxes. I am pretty much done with Winchester ammo forever. If something like this can get through their "quality control" just imagine the kinds of internal screw-ups they can accomplish.

Quote: "What trips your fall trigger?" I tell you what doesn't trip any triggers is this damn day-after-day of 90+ degrees temperature. By the way guys, don't be in too much of a hurry to wish your life away. Come next February when we're slipping and sliding all over the road through the 10 inches of slush, and reading our heating bill, we will be daydreaming about the good old summer months with the fishing and nice cold beer under a shade tree, and munching down the stakes off the grill. I love the fall hunt, but there is always that looming winter hot on it's heels. And by the way, I love all those nice, sunny, picture-book, photos of the colorful leaves that we get to see about 2 or 3 days all Fall (if we're lucky). But most of Fall is gray skies with near constant drizzle and gale-force winds.

You have only two viable choices. Trump who is not schooled in the slick art of politics and mis-speaks far more often than your average dyed in the wool slickster, but has philosophies that have elements of what this country grew up on. Or you have the career politician who knows all the tricks and procedures for lying to your face, utilizing slimy practices that are illegal for all but the chosen few that truly are above the law. If you are tired of the business as usual candidates, that can slip and slide through the system, then to me it makes no sense to vote for that kind of candidate. Yes, this country has been sliding down the rat-hole for decades. To me it makes more sense to shake up the system with someone who is not a career politician and makes a few mistakes along the way than the one who has made sleaze a career path and knows how to remove your rights and make you happy about it. Protest votes involving insignificant third parties are simply sitting the vote out and leaving the results up to luck, or more likely handing the election to the slickster and her political machine. That is not a protest vote, it is simply a way of forfeiting your vote and avoiding taking a stand by using the system.

Maintaining pointless complex fee structures that do absolutely nothing are kind of silly too. Especially when we don't even have a clue what the charges are for. I've got an idea. Since everybody doesn't mind the government's hands in your wallet, why don't you all just send me $15 or $20. I'll put it to good use ......... Trust me.

Look, we need one more gun control law that will put to bed all this assault rifle controversy. Obviously many in the public believe that appearance features are what makes many of the weapons in the hands of criminal much more lethal than old-style gun designs. So lets just pass a law that requires that all guns be painted pink, rendering them obviously harmless. Create a pansy rifle, and it really won't matter that it has a horrible pistol grip or a thumb-hole in the stock. Since laws are being passed based on appearance features rather than function, the new pink paint would render them harmless.

You are assuming that it would actually be more. It could be that the simplification would actually be less for all.

Imagine a farmer who has a chunk of his annual income that comes from some nice prime black angus or Hereford purebred beef cattle reading about this stupid study. Or maybe a dairy farmer who has to tolerate slaughtered cattle because of some newly introduced cougars which would undoubtedly be completely protected while the DEC tried to establish a thriving population. Expand that to those who count on their sheep, hogs, horses and any other convenient farm livestock that are suddenly on the menu of these introduced kitty-cats. Pets, hikers, mountain bikers, kids, you name it they could all become an entrée on a mountain lion's menu of convenience. You don't just throw a bunch of these things into the wild without some unintended consequences. There are a few other considerations beyond just having a new species to hunt. But these brilliant scientists have studies that show that it would help decimate the burgeoning deer population. Do these mental midgets ever step outside their cubicles?

I don't know exactly how many times that I and many others have said, "If only I had had a gun instead of a bow, that deer would have been mine." I feel confident shooting at deer with ranges up to 150+ yards well rested with my scoped .270. Many others can do much better with their deer rifles. My maximum range with a bow is 35 yards, and I really prefer 20 yards. How on earth can anyone compare the two when it comes to efficiency. Is it really true that early deer are easier before the guns start banging? Not if you know how to use the pressure from other gun hunters. If I want to reduce any segment of the deer herd, realistically, I would take my .270 and let the other hunters move the deer for me with their movement and noise and their filling the woods with scent. I can't see how anyone could possibly argue that point. Hang around a deer processor some opening day of gun season and see just how effective modern firearms really are compared to bow kills. I see them corded up like firewood every time I cart my deer over to our processor, and that is not just opening day. Any day in bowseason ........ not so much (or even close)