Doc

And if habitat health and a balance of deer vs habitat is trashed in favor solely of hunter satisfaction, just how long can inflated numbers continue to abuse habitat before there becomes no way at all to support a huntable population. There are limits as to how high you can artificially maintain large herds before mother nature decides to take over and do the managing for us. I will say that with the maturation of NYS habitat, it's only a matter of time before eventually somebody will not be very happy. I am not in favor of letting a bunch of laymen manage the herd. What are these biologists going to school for if they are going to shirk their bought and paid for expertise, handing such decisions over to hunters and farmers and nurserymen and motor vehicle accident lobbyists. That just ain't right.

The weatherman is panicking at the potential for losing his doom and gloom, ratings-boosting nightly forecasting with the advent of the warmer weather. So now they are all hyping up what they call the "return to winter" during the last two weeks of March. No they are not calling for a return to -30 degrees of wind-chill, but they are ranting and raving about the return of colder weather and more snow. Well, that's not surprising news. March is noted for at least one big ugly storm of heavy, sloppy, gloppy, heart-attack inducing, snow. No, winter is not done with us yet. I can even remember a 6" snowstorm in May. And I can remember quite a few snowy Easter-egg hunts. So there is no need to break out the shorts just yet. But it probably is not a real good idea to completely buy into the whining and hand-wringing of the weathermen either. Lately, they seem to be more interested in ratings and sensationalism than accurate forecasting.

NYS already has this management style, and has had it for quite a few years now. See http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7207.html No it is not a county by county activity, but the notion of gathering input from a variety of stakeholders, and essentially having them establish harvest targets was not invented by Wisconsin. Is it a good system? I'm not sure I'm all for it. I think deer densities are being managed to satisfy the politics and economics and stakeholder biases rather than attempting to use good established biological principles to match populations to carrying capacity of habitat. It sure would be interesting to see how things might work out if the agency charged with the responsibility of managing wildlife actually acted like a competency unit trained and dedicated to that responsibility fulfilling the job as everyone mistakenly assumes they are doing. Instead they have developed a system that spreads accountability among all other interest groups of NYS residents, with actual biological principles diluted with the wants and needs of anyone who has personal axes to grind. Deer management has devolved into a competing cluster of lobbyists that hold periodic popularity contests to support their individual interests. So has Wisconsin stumbled onto a new and unique management method. Not really. I really am not sure whether they have even taken a step forward with their "new" system.

Ha-ha .... a huge percentage of the threads that are on this site relate to how we mostly think the DEC is under-funded, under-staffed, and really doesn't have a clue what the heck they are doing. And yet we have no shortage of additional tasks that we want them to take on. I do believe that the re-introduction and maintenance of a NYS elk herd would be no small feat, and would soak up a lot of DEC resources and effort. How about we get control of the native critters first before we go any farther with introductions of new species.

I suspect that the DEC wants enthusiastic, knowledgeable, hunters to be filling the slot of "mentor". Perhaps the license requirement is a guaranteed attempt to do that but I can't think of any alternatives. Remember that a mentor is not to be confused with a "baby-sitter". There is a reason why you are out there accompanying a youth hunter. The hope is (and admittedly that all it is, is a "hope") that at least one of the two of you will be experienced in hunting, safety, and game identification. It may not be any guarantee, but I do think it is a worthwhile requirement that works most of the time.

Wrong!! The problem is pet owners who profess to love their animals but refuse to own them responsibly which really shows that they talk a good game but don't actually give a damn about them. Yes they turn them loose and then whine about careless driving when they run out in front of cars and become highway Frisbees. They think it is just fine for them to be torn limb from limb by coyotes or foxes or shredded birds of prey. And if they become the scourge of wild-life, it is of no concern to these people. The dog owners that "owned" the dogs that tore our sheep apart thought it was a nice thing to let their animals run loose. I have heard people moving out into the country talking how nice it is that the dogs can be allowed to run free. Yes, that is the lack of responsibility that a lot of people in this thread are responding to. If you can't control your animals, you don't deserve to have animals. And don't be blaming others for your thoughtless attitude toward pet ownership.

I know that there are darn few people that feel good about shooting animals that have been bred for domestication. But as a kid, we had some experiences where dogs got into our sheep, and I can tell you that there is nothing innocent, or loveable about a group of dogs that run loose and entertain their instincts from their ancestors. We had thousands of dollars of damage, of the most ruthless sort. These dogs were not killing out of hunger. Not a one of the sheep was actually eaten. Just enough damage was done to kill each sheep or leave them in a condition where they had to be destroyed. The interesting thing about these dogs was that they all were domestic family pets that were allowed to run free and take up some new hobbies. All of them were licensed, with tags, but totally unsupervised. I have also seen dogs running deer and ripping them apart, a bite at a time over long distances ..... not hardly the behavior that anyone assigns to the family pet, but almost always that is exactly what they are. So it's nice to have a soft spot in your heart for the loyal house pet, but don't be fooled into thinking that their calm, good nature as they are flopped out with their head on your lap is anything that cannot reverse 180 degrees when running loose with a couple of neighborhood pals. And the same thing is true of the family pussy-cat that is booted out the door in the morning to simply do what comes natural to them all day long.

A lot of them leave you wondering, "How on earth did they ever get those pictures?"

Since the other day when I saw two deer trying to move through all the snow, I have been thinking about how this winter might effect our herd. I will say that the few deer that I have seen seem to be in pretty good rig yet, but it is not all that easy to make that assessment simply by watching a couple of them for a few minutes. It did bother me that they are not able to simply walk through the snow, but rather have to kind of hop around which has to be using up valuable calories. Here's a bit of good news though. The weather people are talking about a pattern shift. No winter is not over, and there is still lots of cold and snow in our future, but the brutal stretches of cold might be over ...... according to them. Also, there is some warmer weather coming at the end of next week that may get rid of some more of this snow. Actually, we have gotten rid of about 6" of snow over the past week. Hopefully the melting will not be forming a crust. That could be fatal in a couple of different ways. Now, if you want to feel sorry for the critters, just imagine how the turkeys have to been struggling in this crap.

No, all I did was watch the commercial video. The fact that they have been super successful at getting people to send them money only tells me they are real good at what they do. The world is full of people who have become experts at extracting money from people....lol. But unfortunately they'll have to do it without my donation ..... lol. I guess it is just my natural skepticism of these kinds off "send me money" offers. Does anyone actually personally know someone who has participated in this and is happy with the way the thing is actually working? I am simply sending out a bit of caution. These internet offers are not always as good as they sound. The set-up has all the earmarks of a great scam.

I do have to point out that this whole video finishes off with a plea for donations to help pay for the tooling, etc. In return you will get some unspecified break in the price if and when you decide to buy one. So I am assuming that they are asking for your money, and at some point in time off into the future after they get everything tooled up and ready to market, you will have the opportunity to buy one at a reduced rate. That is if you can still find them around. I am picturing that inside this thing is a reservoir of honey, and a small pump ...... lol. But it sure does look impressive. I smell a scam!

One of the difficult things is to recognize the signs of deer starvation stress. The deer's winter coat covers a lot of the display of emaciation.

Looking ahead, I am wondering if this is crazy weather is a sign of another summer garden of cold, rain, and non-germinating seeds and vegetable rot? Will this record-breaking winter of extremes switch back to normalcy, or will the colder trend and excessive precipitation continue right through the summer? We'll have to wait and see.

I am getting a little concerned. The weatherman is seeing no real relief in sight, and the snow is belly deep, and deeper, on the deer. It all depends on when the weather really decides to break. If this crap continues into April there could be some real problems come next hunting season.

I'm getting a bit concerned I just got done watching three deer just off the end of the house. They don't look like they are having a fun time just moving through this unending snow. The snow is above their belly. They still look in reasonable rig as near as I can tell from 30 yards through the window. But they are not walking through the snow anymore, they are now in the hopping mode which has to be burning calories like mad.

Please repost this when the date gets close. I really don't want to miss this again this year.

Isn't that sad? A lot of what is being said about the quality of our educational system was being demonstrated in that video ..... lol. Also highlighted is the fact that such a very important part of our governmental system (voting) is being done by people who are far more incompetent than the losers that are getting voted into office. It's really quite frustrating.

The method of killing with broadheads relies on hemorrhaging. Not impact as in the case of a slug or bullet. Therefore the target has some extra requirements in terms of where the most humane and effective areas are located. Also, after the shot, the rules of effective pursuit and retrieval have different guidelines and practices than those of a gun. I think those features all by themselves tell you that gun instruction for crossbows is probably not the right selection. Put the crossbow season wherever it all finally shakes out, but the education principles should be part of a bowhunter training program or a separate program of its own (which may not really be a terrible option).

It appears to be human nature to want to take the challenge out of everything we do. In archery, we get the illusion of wanting challenge by limiting ourselves with our equipment. And then we start buying everything that anyone can think of to remove challenge. It is without exception, and yes, muzzleloading technology has gone through the same game-changing mentality to remove anything that may serve as a challenge. We do not need to hunt for sustenance and theoretically the purpose of modern-day hunting is to create a "fair" competition between man and nature's critters. But when we get a chance to "cheat" and put the odds back in our favor, we can't seem to buy enough gadgets and gizmos to remove as much of the animal's edge as we can. If we don't do it with our weaponry, we do it with scent-free clothing, camo, scent-killing chemicals (oh yes the chemists get into the act also .... lol), tree-stands, arrow flinging machines of increasing speed and accuracy, or any other mechanical and chemical advantage that anyone can provide us, so that we can take from engineers and designers, and claim for our own successes as hunters. Most of the hunting success of today is directly attributable to some nerdy, egghead, sitting in a cubicle somewhere inventing things that we can take credit for and use against the natural defenses of our prey. ..... Human nature .... Most of us do it. And it shows no sign of slowing or reversing. We're addicted to taking credit for the success of marketplace products, invented and supplied by someone else. Challenge .... yes, for the engineers and chemists. For us hunters .... well maybe not as much as we like to pretend.

Ha-ha-ha .... Hear it? .... Huh? .... Can you hear it? That grinding sound as all our resident libs are pondering how to rebut all of that. You can almost see that bulging forehead vein, and the wide open bulging bloodshot eyes and beet red faces. Yeah, if you listen real close, you can hear all the muttering ...... o-o-o-oh there goes some swearing. Yikes, this is going to be a good one when it gets going. It really is kind of fun to watch everyone take themselves so seriously as if their words of aggression and fits of pathetic anger and vitriol on a hunting site will somehow save the world. But it's coming .... wait for it......Ha-ha-ha.

Yup!, That's exactly what I said, except I did not say anything about handicapping "archers". My word was "hunters". The season was established for those hunters who wanted to take on deer hunting using unique primitive equipment as a means of accepting a handicap to create noteworthy challenge. And exactly as I said, people have been diligently (and successfully) working ever since to change that primitive (handicapped) equipment toward equipment that removes more and more of that initial goal of challenge. That really is not something anyone can honestly dispute. The invention and mass marketing of the compound bow was the beginning of it all, and from that point, the destruction of the initial concepts of bow season have eroded with no end in sight. The ever increasing success rates kind of indicate that. And by the way, the skill set intended for bow season was not simply so people could practice a close range hunting, but the equipment was such that there was no choice. The physical skills involved in shooting recurves and longbows was the very feature of bowhunting that required hunters to close the distance. It was specifically the handicap of the unique equipment that required that the season be separated from gun season. So, I don't think there is a whole lot of difference in what either of us are saying ..... Just different ways of saying it. I am simply adding that I don't necessarily agree that the initial concepts and restrictions of bow season are something that we should be working so hard to get rid of.

It all can't come soon enough to suit me. This has been the most disgusting winter that I can ever remember. We have had some pretty ugly winters before, but there were always times of thawing mixed in. Where the hell was our January thaw? ..... lol. For the first time ever, I had to buy a roof-rake to clear the snow off the barn roof. By the way, that job really sucks. Before anyone begins any premature celebrations, keep in mind that March traditionally has at least one doozy of a storm of heavy, wet, sloppy, gloppy snow that can be measured in feet. Two Feet of Snow!!

I would really hate to see anyone blocking the "Gun and Hunting Laws and politics Discussions" forum. That basically would be an admission of apathy when it comes to matters regarding the legal challenges to hunting and other outdoor activities. The one most important feature of this site is that it does keep us all informed about legal challenges and threats to the activities that we supposedly care so much about. I do understand the level of that apathy from the most recent election results, but at least the information has a venue of education for those of us who do care about such things. And hopefully, some of the information and details do reach some people here that might otherwise remain uninformed.

Rap ..... Can't really get into it. Basically, I call it "chanting" rather than music.... lol. however it has even crept into country music now.

My comment was simply intended to make the results more meaningful, truthful and perhaps useful. I see no value in people commenting on things they have no interest in, or knowledge of.