Doc

I always wondered what it would be like to turn my favorite pastime into my sole resource for putting food on the table and a roof overhead. Would it begin to lose it's luster. would it become a "job". It would be interesting to ask some of these TV hunter-heroes that so often run afoul of the law, if the pressures of having to produce didn't drive them to break laws and bend rules. Does it change the activity and sour some of what the original attraction was. I don't know. I've never tried it, but it does make me curious when you turn something that you did because you enjoyed it into something you do because you have to.

All right!!! Now you're talking. There's a market out there for those kinds of racks. We need to get busy and capitalize on the trophy antler craze. I have an alternative to those crazy expensive trophy prices that they charge at the Canned Hunt Trophy Deer Ranch.

Oh I have no problem with what you are saying except that when you join in with those animal right wackos that openly avowed their intension to consider bowhunting to be their number one target in their anti-hunting campaign. Apparently that point flew over your head because of my attempt at sarcasm. But I will say that when you start peddling that line about "my weapon is more humane than yours", you had better be ready for someone to take that all the way looking to ban anything that is not the most efficient and modern and deadly on the market. Your crossbow is less humane than a scoped rifle in terms of capabilities, so why not walk the walk and hold off for the most fool-proof weapon. You either believe in it or you don't. I see you struggling to justify your partial commitment to your principle with the "gee, my family will starve to death if I only use a rifle" argument, but no matter how you spin it, it still smacks of hypocrisy to me.

Yeah, I know. You are one of those brilliant hunters that are in that elite few. I know it's true because I have heard you say it so many times....lol. Hey look, it's alright. Whatever gets you through the day. If self-aggrandizement floats your boat, that's alright. After all, if you don't toot your own horn obnoxiously to the point where it's sickening, who in world will ever do it for you. Some people get all disgusted and repulsed with a braggadocios personality that is always telling people how great they are whether anyone wants to hear it or not. Imagine that!

Please turn on the sarcasm alert So, you think that as a parent you should be allowed to choose your kids diet? Didn't you know that raising kids is the government's business. Haven't you heard that "it takes a village to raise a kid"? Well, the village is what they call the government agencies now. Come on, you know where this country is heading. How dare you try to stand in the way?

This thread puts me in mind of a great money-making opportunity. How about artificial antlers that any taxidermist can put on your buck (or doe)? There would be no need for expensive trips to any special out-of-state deer preserves. No exorbitant costs to grow fancy special custom manufactured deer. You can tell all your friends that you really did shoot the deer yourself and be telling the truth. With the materials they have available today for antler repair, it would be no trick at all to construct a full set of antlers as ridiculously huge as you wanted. Don't stop at a mere paltry 200" trophy. Fool all your friends, and become an instant hunter-hero in the neighborhood or hunting club. I can see it all now. A few hundred dollars plus the regular taxidermy fees, and you could have a trophy-of-a-lifetime proudly hanging on the wall for all to admire. It really is no different than going to the special deer preserve and getting set up with their version of trophy harvests except that you could do it on your favorite hunting grounds for a fraction of the cost and let the taxidermist do the real work for you. What do ya think?

Please engage the sarcasm alert! Actually, that same philosophy would reach the perfect solution if hunting was mandated to be only with scoped rifles of a certain regulated caliber. If we want to keep wounding losses down to a minimum, it sounds like we should only be using the most efficient and successful modern weapon that is produced. The heck with archery, crossbows and black powder crap. Why follow that philosophy only part way?

Love the raised beds, but how do you till the soil every year? Is that all done by hand?

Yeah, there is no shortage of cash in that family since the daughter hit it big in the country music business. But I assume the show is portraying some time in their lives when she wasn't bringing in the family income.

Never mind the size of the trap...... I am more concerned with the size of the bear that it would be used on.

Ha-ha-ha..... there sure is a lot of that going on in this thread, but that is about as blatant an example as I have ever read. I have never heard it expressed so directly and clearly. But it does kind of fit into the theme of this thread. At least it clears up what at least one member needs antlers for, and his needed connection between antlers and trophies and self-aggrandizement ......lol.

I think recycling originated with the Kilchers. They look out across their trash and see possible raw materials for their next project. Pretty resourceful people. It looks like they don't throw anything away ....... ever!

Perhaps a glimmer of hope that this thread will get back on track. Although I will say that it has had some pretty interesting side-trips.

I seldom use trophy and deer in the same sentence. To me a deer is big or little, or I might refer to them by the number of points, but trophy? To me a trophy is that wood and silver or gold-plated thing that sits up on a shelf after winning some tournament or other noteworthy competitive event. Yeah, I understand that the term has been co-opted by hunters, but I just don't really refer to prey in that way. To me that term just doesn't make any sense when used to describe deer harvests.

Oh come-on. I have never heard such drivel since the introduction of Disney's Bambi. I never can remember that term that somebody invented that describes when someone is assigning human qualities and emotions to animals, but here is a good example of it. Ok, I looked it up ...... "anthropomorphize" is what I was trying to think of. Look, take one small twitch to the left, and those words will be spoken by a full-fledged animal-rights advocate. If you want to let living things actually live, don't stop at two years, or 3, or 5, or 10. Just throw down your gun and let them live until some car or coyote or disease rubs them out ..... lol.

I grew up a farm kid in hill and valley country at a time when everyone I knew hunted (Adults or kids), and I mean literally everyone. It was a whole different era. I built a fairly impressive trap-line with my grandfather and the outdoor life became what my life was all about. Hunting was just another phase of my life. A home-made hickory long-bow and some willow arrows began my first hunting ventures up in the hayloft of our barn as I started taking some pigeons with pretty regular success, for an occasional meal.....lol. Hunting was locked in then. That first hunting season when a high school buddy and I spent several days up on top of the hill in a homemade lean-to sealed the deal and even though my old bent-barreled 20 gauge missed a nice buck, that whole camping/hunting experience started something that would last a whole lifetime and take many different directions.

I missed the part about this all being a condition of purchase. So if that was the case, then that was another choice. Basically I thought her solution was for the betterment of the environment. She had a mess and decided to clean it up by burying it. It all sounds reasonable to me. Was it barrels of toxic waste?.....Probably not. I haven't the slightest idea whether the solution was according to the letter of the law, and as a matter of fact given the same circumstances, I probably would have used the same solution and never questioned it any further.

Yeah I have had some pretty ugly venison. I was not around when the buck was butchered so I have no idea just what the cause of the rank taste was. This was one very old 10 point buck. It was back when I was a kid and the handling of venison was a bit different than what we typically do today. I know there was the traditional "aging" of the venison as the deer hung from a tree in the yard, with the hide on, through many cycles of freezing and thawing in the sun. It seems that was what everyone did back then. I politely did my best but couldn't get beyond the first bite. So sometimes nasty tasting venison may have little to do with the age of the deer.

One can also ask, "Where's the motivation to continue hunting if little to nothing of someone's arbitrary legal standards are there?" How long can most hunters watch bucks that he can't shoot walk by before he begins to start thinking of all the other things he could be doing where success appears a whole lot more likely. There is always at least two different ways to look at these things.

No, your absolutely right. The thread has evolved into something other than the original post, but that's no reason to say there is "No value in threads like this". There may be individual replies that can be citicized, but the thread was written and posted without judgment as a simple set of questions involving why people use antlers to establish trophy status. It is not the fault of the original thread if it morphs into something else. And by the way, thread evolution is not rare on forums, and even the way things have gone on this one does not mean the thread was bad. Perhaps people have need of refining their ways of expressing themselves, but I always value opinions from hunters whether I agree with them or not.

That is a good distinction to make. There is a difference between criticizing a practice, vs. criticizing participants. One gets into the realm of "personal attack". But we should never get into the mindset that because something is merely related to hunting we must bite our tongue and not express an opinion. That is not an act of supporting hunting or hunters. When we get to the point where we cannot speak our mind about various hunting practices, the benefits of discussion and improvements will be lost to us. That's something that I hope will never happen to hunters.

What a mess! I imagine there are scratches and digs in the paint on the truck.....right?

So what is the purpose of your trail cam pictures? Are they animal inventory studies, scouting activities for upcoming hunting seasons, Patterning specific deer? Or do you use them for wildlife photography in general? I have known people who used them to identify trespassers. I used one to find out what was digging up my tulip bulbs (turned out to be squirrels by the way). I also used one camera to see what was tunneling under the back wall of the barn. Part #2- Do you have any accompanying programs that analyzes the sightings on the game cameras. Things like spreadsheets and such that use data and patterns from the pictures taken.

Actually, had you read the OP, you would have noticed that the question was really quite non-judgmental and simply aimed at why antlers are the standard of establishing trophy status. Being a part of the hunting community, I find it interesting to solicit opinions on things of this sort. Just kind of casual conversation. I'm not worrying about others. I am just curious as to what other hunters think on different subjects. But we do have those who like to stifle curiosity and conversation and can't help but find fault with anything posted on a forum. Well, that's their personality, not mine. I will continue to post questions on things that I find curious and the hell with the flamers.

I understand that the big cats are extremely secretive and certainly would not be around in big numbers, but you would think that with all the interest that people and the DEC has in mountain lions here that somebody would have come up with some kind of absolute proof over the years. I am no way ready to say that all these reports are lies and imaginations or cases of mistaken identity, but I will have to see better proof than just eye witness accounts. In this day of everyone carrying cameras and cameras strapped to trees all over the place, perhaps it is just a matter of time before real proof comes to light. We'll just have to wait and see and be skeptical. One thing I really don't want is for the attitude of ridicule becoming so commonplace that people will stop reporting what they see or think they have seen.