Doc

It sounds like not very many people fell in love with the weapon itself as a hunting item, but were more interested in the additional hunting opportunities that a bow season provides. Is that a fair statement? As I recall, it wasn't that way when the bow season was originally conceived. The primary draw back then was the archery itself and the challenges that it provided.

Ha-ha-ha....... Somebody is shocked and surprised that something like a forum that is for the purpose of expressing opinions sometimes gets a bit spirited? Hunting is one of those things learned from and influenced by friends, relatives, and other close acquaintances as well as our own personal observations. When you start questioning methods, attitudes and beliefs, you are questioning those friends, relatives, and other close acquaintances, where they came from. So you all are surprised when that sort of thing gets a bit heated? You don't need a degree in human behavior to understand that that is going to happen from time to time. Relax, and try real hard not to take everything so serious and personal. Sometimes the disagreements get a bit harsh, and we do wish that they wouldn't, but understand that hunting can be a very personal thing to us, and once in a while things get a bit out of hand ...... so what? War zone??? That is overstating things considerably. Keep these internet forums in perspective and save your angst and distress for some real, in-life hardships and real life experiences and conflicts.

Sounds like you might be a good candidate for wildlife photography.

OK..... So where is the camo baby blanket? Lets get things started in the right direction right off! A little camo face paint and a camo hat, and away you go.

No pictures?

Do not overlook the .22 Hornet. It can be loaded up or down to accommodate any legal target you might encounter from a tractor-seat. Add to that some good optics and a bipod to stabilize the gun on the hood of the tractor, and pretty much any kind of legal varmint that you can see can be put down with that rig.

There was no external motivation to take up archery that I am aware of. Other than when I was about 11 years old, I found an old draw knife up in the shop over the garage. For some reason, I associated that tool with building a bow. So I took my trusty axe and went up on the hill and chopped down a hickory and set to work shaping a hickory longbow patterned after some pictures of Indian bows that I had seen somewhere. I made some arrows out of willow branches, and headed up to the hay loft in the barn and started knocking off some of the pigeons that roosted up there. Several squab meals later, I was sold on this archery thing and later got the whole family interested and involved. I bought my Dad a book on building bows, and next thing we knew he was busy building a glue lamination oven and clamping forms. Pretty soon we all had some pretty stylish custom made and fitted laminated recurves, some of which had some pretty exotic woods built into them. That was it. From then on the whole family was involved in archery. It all started with a hand fashioned hickory longbow and grew into a life-long activity that involved the love of perfect arrow flight. There is nothing in the gun world that can match the attraction (for me) of a well shot arrow. The hunting was a side effect of the lure of arrow flight powered only my own hand pulled and controlled bow.

I remember a time when I could go out rabbit hunting even without a dog and expect to come home with some great tasting supper. I haven't been able to do that at anytime during the last 2 or 3 decades. I'm not sure what is so different these days. Any guesses?

But perhaps the one being sued can take solace that they still have a face or a throat or a live functioning body. One's self defense and the defense of life and limb of those around them is priority number one. Legal ramifications come second.

Isn't it unfortunate that in a situation where a second's hesitation may cost a person death or disfigurement, that person must go down through a list of complex legal qualifications, and parse each word before taking action. I'll tell you what, if I have the means to defend myself against a menacing dog (And he doesn't even have to bite me first), I will take that action and worry about the fine print of some obscure laws later.

It's just another of natures many cycles. Foxes, coyotes, and raptors will knock them back down again shortly.

It is amazing how many people own animals and have no clue that there are responsibilities that go along with pet ownership. I feel pretty strong about ignorant people who allow their animals loose to plague wildlife or farm animals or whatever else happens to cross their path. I have heard it before where people were moving out into the country and were so happy that now they had a place for their canines to "run free and be happy". It happens all too often.

What was it that lured you into bow hunting? What was the attraction?

Is it important to you to "show how good you are to others"? I'm not saying that is right or wrong, I am just asking the question. I'm trying to think if that was ever an important motivator in my hunting, and I do think there was a time when the impression that I made on others was important to me. It has been so many years since I even thought that way, that I guess I had forgotten that there was a time when I actually gave a damn about what people thought about my hunting achievements. It's not a part of me anymore, and I suppose that is why I have a hard time getting into this trophy mentality anymore. I no longer measure my successes by what other people think about my hunting results. It just doesn't mean anything to me. I think I was in my early 50's when my attitudes started changing and my successes were no longer dependent on what anyone else thought of the deer I shot or the rabbits or squirrels or fish that I got, or any other achievements that I accomplished in my outdoor activities. That just isn't a factor in my hunting anymore. I do think that my enjoyment of hunting has increased since I adopted this attitude that my hunting is done for me and me only.

I have had a not-so-comfortable confrontation with a pretty good sized, scruffy, menacing dog. A lot of raised hair and bared teeth and growling and all I had was my bow. I'm not sure how good you people are at getting off a killing shot at any charging animal, but I knew the odds would not really be too great at stopping a charging "anything" with an arrow in a split second. Fortunately, I didn't have to face that test because after a minute or two of standing my ground (seemed like an hour ..... lol) he turned and ran off. I suppose I would have felt a whole lot safer if I had had a pistol aimed at him. But it all worked out ok without one. Another scenario that I have NOT encountered yet, is an escalated situation with trespassers. I have had several encounters where I have told people to leave, and fortunately I haven't run across any wackos......yet. But again, a bow is not a defensive weapon, should that situation ever arise and escalate into violence. Yes if it did happen, I would hope I would have the option of contacting authorities and letting them handle it. But I suppose nothing ever says that you will always have that chance, depending on what kind of nut-case you run might run into.

Because I have always hoped that the motivations were a bit more noble than that. I have no doubts about my personal traits and features that any set of antlers could fix.....lol. Of course it can be mentioned, and as I said has been repeated over and over by the anti's, but I still view it as offensive and meant to denigrate hunters.

Every move has a counter-move. Let's see if McGregor can figure it out. Many guys have tried without success. My guess is that Mayweather will have no problem winning. Of course there is the ever creeping effect of father time. Defense requires speed and reflexes. Does he still have those features still. We'll see.

Ok, there is the answer that I was hoping I would never see on this thread. I have heard many anti-hunters mocking us as being motivated to kill animals to prove our manhood because of some assumed deficiency in that department. Honestly, I have never had that as a motivator to take up hunting or glean satisfaction from matching wits with nature's wild creatures. Damn! I hope that kind of thinking never creeps into my needs for hunting. For one thing, I find it insulting, and for another thing if that ever turned out to be true, that would make some of those arrogant, worthless, loud-mouthed antis correct in there taunting assumptions. Say it isn't so! For me the competition has always been between me and the deer that I am hunting. I have nothing to prove to anyone. I don't have to keep score to see if I am winning or not. I don't have to assign numbers to impress anyone. And I am not after any peer recognition. But most of all, I have never had to resort to some deer's antlers to prove my strength, worth, manhood, or any other personal attribute.

One thing that cannot be denied is that there is something about antlers that seriously attracts people to deer hunting and it becomes their yardstick to try to measure how successful they are at hunting. And that was the purpose of this thread, to discuss what the attraction is and why. I believe that the reason that antlers have become the standard as the measurement of success for so many is primarily a cultural thing inherited from those that came before us. Back when I was a youngster, it was all about the number of points. No one that I knew bothered with, or even knew about some crazy arbitrary scoring system. It was all about the 12 point that someone shot in the next valley over, or the 10 pointer that hangs around up on the hill, etc. Now we get out the tape measures and fill out some official looking form and get our kicks out of the total "score" and maybe even some official recognition to make hunting have some meaning to us. But it is all still the same thing. It's all about antlers. That is how we pat ourselves on the back and declare ourselves hunter-heroes. To me it all seems kind of arbitrary and conjured up, but man has some deep need to compete, even at something as personal as hunting. So I guess it is one of those "to each, their own" kind of things. But I still find it an interesting subject. When someone asks you why you hunt, this stuff all becomes a part of the answer.

Please pardon my ignorance, but what exactly can you make out of figs other than fig-newton cookies? Can you make pies out of them? Actually I was never aware that they were tolerant of the NYS climate.

Obviously you will not shoot does if you have no DMPs. But that wouldn't be by choice, but simply because of the law. What I am referring to are those who flat out say that they think there is something wrong with shooting does. To me that is simply a resource that is being under-utilized and potential habitat and herd damage occurring because of it.

What is with all this belittling of doe harvests? Some of the sharpest deer that I have run into are does. Excellent tasting meat, and a challenge to boot. The only thing that makes taking a buck a challenge is simply the fact that there are a whole lot fewer of them around. It really has nothing to do with the challenge of intelligence or wariness. So I don't really understand why anyone would be into this buck-only mentality. I guess we are all hunting for different reasons. And I guess I really don't understand all those different reasons.....lol.

I could not have said it any better. It sounds like a philosophy that all hunters ought to believe in, at least in areas where the deer populations warrant it. Actually, as far as deer management principles are concerned, the attitude of only shooting bucks by choice is a bit out of date. That's kind of what antlerless permits are all about.

Yes good old Hurricane Agnes was one to remember. Water flowed across the highway out in front of my property right at the mouth of my driveway. Huge areas of trees were sliding down the steeper hillsides of the valley because of the super-saturated soil. And that was from just one weather event. This year we have had a whole spring and summer of unrelenting rain. Water can be a very nasty thing when it comes in excess like that.

We will be remembering this miserable summer. I just hope that this pattern of constant precipitation doesn't carry into this coming winter.