Doc

Do some see hunting as a competition between hunters. That is something that I guess I never experienced, since my competition is more with the deer that I hunt than with any other hunters. I never was driven to advertise my achievements in some book. And so, I never paid a lot of attention to any systems of scoring or trying to beat out other hunters by getting some line item in a record book. I am not hunting to impress anyone but myself. My hunting successes and achievements are my own to enjoy, and I do not need the approval of some organization or some conjured up scoring system to tell me if I should be happy with my successes. But, I guess we are all in the activity for different reasons and with different personal needs. So I see it all as kind of a harmless endeavor as long as it doesn't create pressures on hunting that drive laws and restrictions and begins to drive participants from hunting. So, does it? I guess that is a subject for a different topic.

Yes, once again the Saturday morning hunting shows strike with the hunter-heroes proudly showing past trail cam pictures of the monster deer they had just harvested. The insinuation is that the trail cam identified a flawless consistent pattern of that deer that enabled the hero-of-the-day to harvest the big monster. Well really..... was it the camera or more likely the fact that he was hunting for artificially well fed, near-domesticated deer inside a high fence. How many of us can say that we actually shot a deer that we had on camera? How many can say that simply getting a picture of a deer means that we then had any kind of edge over the deer? Yes, the bookkeepers have a perfect right to incorporate any rules and regulations that they want into their acceptance of entries, but don't read too much into any of that.

The point I was making is that all these people are trying to make folk-heroes out of these sneaking people who crawl over the border to laugh at and defy our laws. It has gotten so ridiculous that now our own citizens are willing to openly break laws to protect these people who have no respect for our legal system. We even have open defiance and obstruction of the law by those with some misdirected acts of what they mistake for compassion. We have protests and even riots by people who are more interested in feel-good acts of anarchy than they are for the safety and welfare of our own country. Have people gone completely mad? They are not immigrants, they are illegal aliens and need to leave until they can do the process right and become respected and true immigrants and a legal part of our county's citizenry.

Well, that is my new favorite Fred Bear quote. My hunting success or rewards will never be measured in inches, nor do I crave attention and recognition or peer admiration to the extent that I would ever need my successes ranked and published. My most treasured trophy is that first deer that I got with the bow. It was a spike buck with 5" spikes. But I still can recount every little detail of that hunt even though it was decades ago. However having said all that, I have to say that a records-keeping organization has to maintain a level playing field for their rankings. It is their right and perhaps even duty to set standard rules for the entries. And if "no trail cams" is included in their rules, then that is the way it is. It's their organization, and their rules-making segment has made a ruling. So, for those that feel a need to have their trophies authenticated and then published, I can only say, rip those cams off the trees and be honest about what you are trying to do.

I just heard on the news another tear-jerker news story on how a family of "immigrants" were facing potential deportation. More "Fake news"! No, there are no immigrants being deported. They are illegal aliens. Lets get it right ........ They are illegal aliens. These are people who willingly and knowingly decided to violate the existing laws of the USA. They did not earn the right to be here, as lawful immigrants do, but simply chose to disregard the legitimately established laws of our country. Their very first act when they came here was to knowingly and without respect for this country, violate the country's laws providing clear insight into how they hold the sanctity of our country's legal system in complete contempt. They decided to make a mockery of all those legal immigrants who went through all the legal channels and hoops that are required for full citizenship and legal acceptance into our society. When talking about these people, lets not waste sympathy on them when they couldn't see fit to abide by the lawful requirements of citizenship here. And when these people are finally caught, deportation is indeed the proper path for them until they can see fit to abide by the laws of our land and follow lawful procedures. Until that day let's stop calling them immigrants and use the proper terminology, "Illegal aliens". Because that's exactly what they are.

The antler restrictions would not have made a bit of difference. The kid shot the deer thinking it was a doe. He didn't even know the deer had antlers at all. So how would AR have changed the result. Even with AR, he thought it was a doe and still would have shot it. The only difference is that he would have wound up with a legal problem on his hands if AR was in force. Then who knows how he would have reacted. Perhaps it would have been left to rot. I think he was damned lucky that his area didn't have ARs in place.

From what I've seen, it appears that in our little corner of 8N this past hunting season didn't even dent the deer population. It's starting to look like there may be other areas with the same season results. So maybe I have to start agreeing with the DEC that we have a potential problem that requires some attention. And I don't mean putting the solution entirely on the backs of bowhunters either. Not if they are really looking for solutions. So what's going on? Is it all access problems or is there now a component of failing hunter numbers and enthusiasm? Every year I am struck with the diminished shooting patterns for opening weekend and the almost silent hunting seasons after that first weekend. Are we already becoming incapable of controlling deer through hunting?

I have been down out of the trees for quite a few years now. I cannot say that it has improved my success rate any. In fact it has been a bit of a handicap. However, it has improved the excitement level immensely. There is something about taking on the deer at ground level, eyeball-to-eyeball that sends the old adrenaline right through the top of my head .. lol. Knowing that one slight error, careless movement, sloppy bow draw, or wayward drift of the wind, can blow the whole deal (and often does) really puts on some extreme pressure unlike anything I ever experienced up in the tree-tops. My stands are always constructed of fallen trees, limbs and other sturdy natural materials. These stands have to season a bit (about a year) to be the most effective, and usually they are built strong enough so that they can be used a few years without any further disturbance. They are pretty good sized so that they form a wall wide enough and tall enough that I can sit or stand behind them, draw my bow and let the deer walk across into a shooting lane without my having to move at all, or just slightly and slowly lean out the side slightly to get the shot off. These stands have been designed for bow hunting, but have been productive during gun season too. Picture taken from the deer trail. Shot distance is exactly 20 yards. behind this stand is a ravine with 200' straight down rock walls. It forms a rough sort of pinch point. that the deer tend to follow. What you can't see is an old pole-line road exactly 20 yards out from the stand, that ran from the main highway in the valley up the hill (about 2 miles) and back to an old dirt road behind my property. The pole-line road has faded out pretty well now and looks more like an ATV trail with old rusty wires draped through the tree-tops and some old ceramic insulators nailed into fallen and rotten electric poles About 1940's vintage. The deer have taken over the road now and it has become a rut, food, and bedding route through the woods. This one has been very productive and is remote enough to make some very mature deer feel very secure here. Deer's eye view of my stand. No, don't even try..... you can't see it. My view of the deer trail from the same stand as above, through one of the shooting lanes. The trails run perpendicular so that deer are moving crosswise and offering a broadside shot. For gun only stands I use a different design which is basically waist and roughly constructed in a "log cabin" fashion such that all walls form gun rests as shown below: built for comfort.....This is a stand that covers a very reliable escape route on opening morning and is a plateau about half-way up the hill. It's about as close to a guaranteed spot as I have ever seen. The best thing is that it is about 1000' up the hill behind our house which makes for a very nice drag home. That's something that is getting more important with each passing year ....... lol.

Such things are popular. Even some on here will try to defend things like feeding, even though the reality is that they are doing more harm than good. And a lot of people want to own a wild animal as a pet. It's supposedly a cool thing to do. And all that winds up being is killing them with kindness. Thankfully the DEC sees the practice a little differently than the bunny-huggers, and those that would domesticate Bambi.

Well conservation law is not written only for "what the average guy will ever be able to do on his back 40". Yes, we even here in lowly NYS, have some rather huge chunks of private land that is completely controlled just as those Texas ranches. Some of it even fenced in and posted and as tightly controlled as any in Texas. But I don't doubt that given enough time deer can be conditioned to make a baited spot almost anywhere a regular part of their pattern. Now remember that we are talking about baiting deer and not hogs and coyotes or any other species. So please don't be expanding it beyond what the original discussion. There are wide variations in intelligence and natural self preservation instincts and abilities when you jump species and start talking about something other than what we have been talking about. I mean really, you don't want me to introduce the topic of baiting mice to a mouse trap or poison do you? ...... lol. And I hope I don't have to repeat that the TV programs are "real deer", and the "real deer" are "really shot" and "really drawn" to the "real shot" by "real bait". Yes indeed it is all real. Now, are you saying that these televised hunts are manufactured fake videos? Come on, I am a pretty skeptical guy myself, but I would never even try to get anyone to believe that these programs aren't flat out recordings of "real" happenings. That's like the conspiracy theorists who claim the moon walk never happened.....lol. Take my word for it. Those deer were really reacting to being conditioned to respond to the feeders and they were really shot. It is just plain silly to seriously deny that. And there's not anything occurring there that could not be duplicated on any of the hunting preserves that we have here in NYS. Whether those results represent what any average Joe could replicate, I have no opinion on that nor is that even relevant. Quote: "Maybe the problem is you've never hunted over bait or a food plot". Well, I have never been on a canned hunt either, but I think I am smart enough to recognize the advantage that would be on a hunt. In my mind I think that conditioning deer to come to a bait is not something that I want to be involved in. The whole concept is not a part of my hunting philosophies. I do not want to have to say that I got my deer because I trained them to come to me to get their food. Frankly, that just sounds wrong to me and I don't want any part of that. You can do what you think you need to do, but count me out. Now I know I am getting repetitive and that gets boring real quick. So I probably will not stay engaged in this conversation since all I have to say, has been said, and I don't have any more simple and clear ways to say the same thing.

I remember back in the early 80's I and a couple of friends were down bowhunting in PA and we met this old guy that had a pet buck that was not quite as tame as the one you are describing. It kind of just hung around and would carefully let you touch it. However I remember thinking that the little critter was just about entering the age where he would be experiencing some of the urges of rut, where they become a bit aggressive and as I understand it, are not really the safest things to be around, especially when they have lost their fear of humans.

Ok then....... You apparently have the next generation of trail cams that predict the future.

OK ....... Now that is not a good thing. Not only is he way too close, but it's obvious that he is looking for a way in.

Well it is difficult to quantify effectiveness of a procedure without a very extensive scientific study which none of us are capable of performing. So I do have to rely on evidence publicly attainable. That being TV programs and magazine articles. That is what provides quite a large number of incidents for forming an opinion. It is credible because video evidence is difficult to fake as a general rule. And when I see shots that show the hunters in their blind, and a long open shooting lane, and a feeder at the end of that shooting lane, and a half dozen bucks and numerous does and fawns all feeding there, I call that significant evidence that the baiting works and has the potential for being damned effective and has indeed modified deer behavior to make the hunt "easy" and in my opinion, extremely easy. Those portrayals are not only "realistic", but is indisputable, viewable evidence that it is a realistic hunting situation. And so I must ask, what is NOT realistic about it? Are those fake deer? is that a fake blind? Are those deer not trained to be accustomed to coming to that spot for a food handout? What is not real about that baited hunt? And bear in mind that that is not just one lone show. Some where you got the idea that I approve of food plots and am interested in justifying them. I do not have any food plots or do I hunt over any food plots. However, pure logic and common sense tells me that the larger the food source, the more diffused the population using it. So those claiming that food plots are identical to bait piles simply are not right. The motivations may be similar but the scope of effectiveness is no where near the same. That is the only thing that I have said about food plots. I personally don't like any of it. As I have said numerous times I don't want anything to do with hunting practices that condition a wild deer herd to revise their behavior to accommodate my lack of hunting skill. It's a personal limit that regards deer as something other than an agricultural project. I don't try to force it on anybody, but I damn sure will not apologize for those feelings about hunting, and will offer that viewpoint whenever the subject comes up. Others may want to treat deer like livestock and as long as it's legal, that is their right. I don't have to like it, I don't have to silence my dislike, and I have no problem stating my opinion on that. I fully expect others to disagree, and that too is their right.

I can only believe what I see with my own eyes. There is no fakery going on there except for those that try to set up their hunting with the feeder just outside the picture. Those half dozen or more bucks, and does, and fawns casually milling around the base of a feeder are animals that have been conditioned to show up at that exact spot for their food and are as comfortable with that as any form of livestock that is regularly fed at a specific location and even at a specific time. It is not animal hunting, it is animal training. I also can see the expensive machinery with timers and distribution systems that are on the market. I also see the extent of the box-blinds that people have set up over feeders. All very expensive and labor intensive and set up with nothing less than a guarantee that if they have trained the deer in that area to rely on that food source properly, a kill can be assured. I have to tell you that it is a real hard sell to convince me that these guys are doing all of that because they like to throw away money and time on something that doesn't work.....especially the hunters whose paycheck relies on weekly success. It could be that those that are claiming that it doesn't work simply aren't doing it right. Do you really believe that these guys who have to come up with a dead deer or two every week for their TV show (without fail) are not using feeders where legal? Heck, some of them have been caught using bait even where it is not legal. And all that is because baiting does work! These guys are professionals and have to have predictable and certain results. It is their livelihood. So in my mind there is no question that baiting does work. Nobody would be arguing for legalization if it didn't work and work damn well. Whether you are for it or not, that is a personal decision regarding how far you will go for a "successful" deer season. I personally draw the line at conditioning deer to enable easier hunting. That's my choice. Others may draw the line somewhere else and that is up to them (and the law). But when logic, economics, and filmed evidence are available in so many video accounts of baited hunts, let's not deny the obvious advantages of bait. Armed with an honest approach to bait, what you do with that info and what opinions you settle in on is your own business. I am just up-front about the fact that it doesn't fit into my version of hunting, and I don't apologize for that.

As far as I know, I still have a right to express an opinion. That is what forums are all about, isn't it? And yes I am judgmental and do evaluate hunting issues. Is there a problem with that? And I do like to explain why I do or do not do certain things in the name of hunting and intend to continue to do so. And no, I do not base my opinions on just one segment of the herd. Do you really think that game management decisions of a species can only focus on one gender and size of that species? In terms of whether the TV baiting shows are realistic or not, I'm not sure whether you are trying to say that those are fake deer, or fake feeders, or fake box-blinds or what it is that you think is not real. So are you arguing that baiting doesn't work? These shows clearly show that isn't true and it is foolish to think that a whole industry has grown up around something that doesn't work. Isn't it kind of silly to be arguing for something that you believe doesn't really work? And in terms of the food plot vs. the food pile or mechanical feeder, I don't think there is a hunter around (especially bow hunters) that doesn't understand the difference if they are to be honest. There really is no need to repeat all the differences that have already been noted. They are all pretty obvious anyway.

I wonder how they fake those Saturday shows that show trophy bucks all over the feeders while the boys drink their coffee in the box blinds with their sand-bagged rifles. I've got to say that it looks damned easy to me. And it's not like those programs are rare and difficult to find, so it does show that bait works, and not just on baby deer and does. Also, why are people so darned excited to buy expensive feeders and haul all the bait out to load those feeders if it doesn't work? Do you suppose that if mature bucks never showed up at bait that the current marketing frenzy of feeders and specially concocted bags of bait would have a dime spent on them. Also, What makes you think that the ease of baiting relates only to trophy bucks? The afore-mentioned monster buck TV stars that hang around feeders are not the only deer that bait becomes a useful tool for attracting. There also are all kinds of youngsters and does hanging around those feeders who make good cheap and easy targets also. Or don't they count? It's funny how we always judge all hunting experiences, rules, and ethics with only trophy bucks being considered.

There is one obvious difference between hunting a corn field vs a bait pile or timer driven feed dispenser. I once counted 38 different entry and exit trails to a corn field that covered approximately a 1/4 mile of field edge. I never was at the right trail when I hunted there. And then too there is the huge area of bearing oaks that still require a bit of patterning to be a useful draw from a hunting standpoint. However, plopping down a single source of preferred deer food or some bag of special concocted preferred deer candy, not only places the deer in the same area that you are hunting, but even the specific 1 square foot location for the deer to stand long enough to pose for you until it finally turns enough to offer the perfect broadside shot at 20 yards. In fact I have read articles that describe timed feeders as acting like a dinner bell so they could not only provide the deer at the specific square foot of space, but also tell you when to be on stand for the performance to begin. How much of your hunting are you willing to let some deer-feeder manufacturer's engineer sitting in an office somewhere, do for you?

I'm not a big fan of neighbors seeing who can lure the most deer away from their neighbors and onto their property. I don't think that we need to begin the creation of "bait wars". Also, it is not my style to condition deer to accommodate my lack of hunting skill. I hunt deer as I find them, and have no interest in treating them like pets or livestock, training them to come to the dinner-bell so I can shoot them. Deer are quite capable of finding their own food, and I am quite capable of putting in the time to figure out where they are going to eat. I mean that is just my own personal limit when it comes to hunting. I don't really care for this recent idea that deer should be trained and used as an agricultural activity that is then called "hunting". I know that is not a popular attitude, but that is just a personal attitude that grew out of my years of hunting.......not a dictate to anyone else. To me hunting involves learning the patterns and habits of deer, not creating them. It's kind of a fine point, but for me, deer hunting is not raising or conditioning deer for slaughter. However, I am aware that others may not draw that particular line of distinction. We each make up our own rules within what is legal when it comes to what hunting is to us. So we all develop our own code of ethics, purpose and meanings and challenges as we grow up into hunting. It is just that some practices (legal or not) are things that I don't care to associate with my hunting.

Well, here's one way.......

I forgot the "big-mouth" birds ..... blue jays. No finches yet, but they'll get around to us eventually. Or maybe they were here when I wasn't looking. We are going through birdseed like crazy this year. The bird activity was absolutely nuts the past two days during the storm. It was like they were afraid that it was their last meal......lol.

At our feeder: Cardinals, chickadees, nuthatches, hairy & downy woodpeckers, red bellied woodpeckers, sparrows, mourning doves, slate-backed juncos, and titmouses (or is that titmice .... lol), & deer.

Ok, having never had any experience with bankruptcy, I have to ask. What does this really have to do with the company's future? Does this mean they are out of business and all stores will be closing? Is it just a debt forgiveness ploy so that they can re-organize and make some sort of come-back? What are the likely options and results for the company and their stores?

There was a day like that that I remember, and as I recall, the sun came out and the temperature shot up into the 60's flash-melting the snow and causing floods down my way. Meteorology doesn't seem to really have improved all that much, so maybe this storm will fizzle out like that one did.

Ok the answer is "yes". I just checked the wireless thermometer, and it did automatically change the time for Daylight savings time.......I'm impressed! Apparently it is an evergreen-update devise that is never wrong. It is in perfect synch with the computer and the TV. Absolute perfect time, temperature (indoors and out), and date all for less than $20. Put all that into a wristwatch, and you would have a cheap durable and reliable watch at a price that is super-cheap.