Five Seasons

common misunderstanding is that a 1 lung hit is good. Generally it's not. You're better off hiting a deer in the hind leg and slicing the femoral artery. while it's often lethal still, a big buck can survive a 1 lung and many deer will go much further and die much slower than you'd like

just like dmp's ARs should be based on zone/wmu. notice the ARs i posted from Mississippi are different as the delta generally grows bigger deer so their ARs are greater. economics 101. supply and demand. shoot too many small bucks and some hunters give up and stop buying tags. grow big bucks and more hunters buy tags and even your out-of-state sales go up. No better examples then the mid-west for your proof.

sounds like you guys might be over-oiling. Go VERY VERY light on the oil. I don't like leaving any gun with residue in it.

I would most likely not shoot that 8 at this point in my life, but like you said he would be legal and the spike would not be. Both 1.5 year olds... Similar comments to broken racks can be make for half racks. I saw a hunting show last night where it was a late Ohio hunt and 180 class buck had already shed his antlers. I don't know the rules but is he now illegal?

same on my browning. Like I said though, just doesn't have that wiggle in the ruger no matter how hard we tried. Again I think it's intentional.

there is no perfect system of course, only those that help. I guess my stance is that there is no perfect systems. I've seen some incredible 4 points. Some because of broken tines and others just have that genetic. I just think that something is better than nothing. Below are some of my own examples a young 8 and what we believe to be a 2.5 year old 6.

not always points. I've shot some small basket 8's and some big 6's. I think in NY it's pretty easy to tell a 2.5 from a 1.5. At my stage in my life I try for 2.5's or bigger and if I need meat I'll stick a doe. My father has been doing it much longer and he's at the 3.5 or 4.5 only rule. That's why I'll continue to say let the youth shoot whatever I don't like points. Too hard. I do like Mississippi's system. Allows for the small points but mature deer.

fixed it for you I don't have any pictures (cell phone died), but let me tell you about the size of this laker I caught. And you wouldn't believe what was in his belly!

you accused me of being unethical for not following a law. So yes, we are talking about assault rifles.I said unethical "gun owner". Not hunter. Nobody responded yet to my question about putting a wounded deer out of his misery after legal light. And If I live on the PA border, it's now dangerous to shoot 30 minutes before light in NY but not dangerous in PA because the law says so? Safety is safety. I make my living in Safety. I deal with OSHA, NFPA, EPA etc. on a daily basis. Many laws are not even in place for safety but because of bureaucracy. Some are even dangerous. So don't tell me that shooting my bow 20 minutes before sun up at a clear target is dangerous. It's not. How many new laws come out every year because some idiot did something stupid. Again I'll point to gun control. We put in laws that hurt the masses of responsible hunters, drivers, gun owners because a few minority are stupid. Guess what? The stupid will continue to be stupid and you're only hurting the responsible people.

PETA would love this thread haha

Again I will disagree. Ethics and legality are not the same thing. There are many many laws in this country and others that are unjust, racist, sexist and biased. So because some man decided them to be law we are unethical for not following them? If I own an unregistered assault rifle in NY I'm now an unethical gun owner because one guy said it so?

i dont know hardly anyone who has ever received a ticket for anything. the DEC is too understaffed. It's a joke and honestly it hurts us all. It'd be hard to prove a bow kill was illegal anyhow. how can the LEO prove it? A lot of us retrieve our deer in the dark when we hunt afternoons.

I disagree. We're talking safety versus legality. It's the ethical versus legal argument. Overwhelmingly people in this thread have agreed if the shot is safe they would take it. I believe myself and most of those who agree would not take that shot when it's unsafe. I've been in those shoes. 2 minutes in the stand and grunting below me. Can only make out the body of the deer and not the rack. We all know some guys who would take the shot anyhow. These same guys don't tag and probably bait. DO NOT lump a guy who shoots a few minutes before legal light in with that lot.

Amen brother. hey guys what do you do if you shoot a deer before it gets dark. Then when you approach it in the dark it's not dead but suffering. It's illegal to put him down right? I mean... that's poaching and not fair and dangerous. and just to clear the record for those in disagreement, the above situation is the only time I've personally been in this position. So while you may disagree with my opinion, I am not "a poacher".

I never said you were wrong or attacked you grow. But you have a least 4 stories of being shot at, giant branches falling on, falling pn you and ducking for cover. You either A. Hunt some very unsafe land or B. Have some pretty bad luck. I've been hunting only 15 years but have never had the kind of war zone stories happen to me that happen to you. Don't take this argument personal. There are some dumb ass laws in this state. Laws are laws of course. Dont forget the safe act is the law so please be a goodie two shoes and follow it. I will stick by my guns and disagree with there being any danger to shooting an animal within 30 minutes of legal light or 30 minutes after. don't call growie those names. she sets her timer.

an hour is not what I was saying the rule should be. it should be 30 min before and after like every other state. And your story sounds like you were still in the truck. that's illegal and not a good rule. Shooting in the dark by way of a barn light is not legal or ethical either. I stand by my statement. If you can see, if it's ethical and safe then let the arrow fly.

absolute bs that it had to get media pressure to get anything done.

self imposed limits have to be followed by all hunters in the area or they don't work. I always say let the youth shoot what they can though. It's a heated topic but mostly because we're all so passionate about it. Not a bad thing. Depending on the size of your property all you can really control is your land. Make it appealing to deer. Have some sanctuary bedding areas that you don't hunt. Some good food sources (apples, food plots etc) and water. Keep it logged to avoid the hard woods that deer avoid when the guns go off. that can help hold them.

did you have a clear shot? no noticeable obstructions or objects behind him? If so then i would have. No need to post the time of kill. Remember this isn't a rifle bullet traveling for hundreds of yards if you miss. I'm more concerned I get a clean kill and not forcing a risky shot that could wound.

yes, I guess that's poaching. I would not feel I cheated one bit. You can go ahead and set your alarm with growie though. 1. always wear a headlamp whether you need it to see or not. I don't wear orange on the way in or out if it's dark. I bouncing light should be enough for those that push the limits. I still wonder where you hunt. You have multiple stories about almost getting shot. Not sure I'd hunt there if it's true. 2. So your reasoning for not adjusting the rule is because they will take a mile? Is that why a lot of states have 65 and 70 mph speed limits and NY stays with 55 and 65? Love that logic. I'm not condoning anything unethical or dangerous. But we all very well know you can still see just fine before legal sunrise and sunset. WAAAAA? I shoot a buck 2 minutes after sunset and I've robbed you of a deer? lmao.

1. Most states have long done away with the sunrise sunset rule. 30 minutes prior and after is acceptable. 2. I have stands in the pines where I can't even make it sunset and others near fields where I have close runs that are fine after sunset. Throw in a full moon or fresh snow and all the variables change. Everyone in hear can act all high, mighty and moral like their sh!t doesn't stink, but there is no harm in sticking a deer 15min after legal light if you have a good safe shot. flame away

if it sounds like a deer it's probably a squirrel. if it sounds like a squirrel it's probably a deer. They drive me nuts but more than once I have dismissed a sound that came from a direction where squirrels have been active, only to finally look over and see a deer standing there. I chalk it up to annoying, but what the hell else am I going to do? haha.

you're not the first. wont be the last. What we do is bring a small step ladder with us. Puts them high enough to make them hard to pull down and also helps them to be a little more visible. Hopefully the landowner knows you put them up?

i'd be worried he would catch the reflection off that dome! haha all kidding aside that's a beautiful buck. congrats!

2 years ago I shot a 5 point. Just barely nicked the lower part of his heart. This wasn't a huge old tough buck and it was still a lethal shot. That bastard ran for over 300 yards including down and up a steep creek bottom. So much blood initially from the rage head that I expected to find him any second. Luckily he didn't go for a swamp and we still had good blood most of the way. If it's not a devastating heart of double lung they can surely travel. And truthfully this was an early kill and not a huge deer and after he bled out on the hoof, to this day I claim him to being one of the best tasting deer I've ever had.