steve863

I think most hunters wouldn't mind this great dilemma that you are having!

I always thought they were all right hand twists, but they aren't. Why this is I don't know. I think T/C has a left hand twist, at least one .308 barrel that I looked at did.

Has anyone who was denied a permit when purchasing a license been sent one yet in the units that were under-applied for? The DEC said last week that they would start sending them within the week to random people that were denied originally. Just wondering because I was denied the first time and am still hoping that I might get a nice surprise in the mail!

My opinion is that he is full of it. Those are the kind of guys who can't even hit a deer at 15 yards never mind 70.

Yeah, just like YOU want me to let the 1.5 year olds go for YOU so you can shoot them next year for a better overall hunting experience!! hahahaha! I am MORE than happy taking one deer a year, no matter what size it is. If I get a doe permit, two is my maximum since that is all the venison I really will use. Any other tag I still might have will remain stuck to the back tag. So you can do the math if you are capable of who wants more brown to be down between us. Perhaps we just send to him all our unused tags to satisfy his blood lust and need for excitement! Careful there WZ, you might be accused of being a "brown and it's down" guy like me for sending him the tags, eventhough HE is the one who will be doing the killing!

Yeah, just like YOU want me to let the 1.5 year olds go for YOU so you can shoot them next year for a better overall hunting experience!! hahahaha! I am MORE than happy taking one deer a year, no matter what size it is. If I get a doe permit, two is my maximum since that is all the venison I really will use. Any other tag I still might have will remain stuck to the back tag. So you can do the math if you are capable of who wants more brown to be down between us.

My suggestion would be that you fellas just give it up. You boys talk the talk, but obviously DON'T walk the walk. I don't care how many more tags came with your license, if you are these great "stewards" you guys claim to be you wouldn't be shooting any more deer, most especially if you aren't in it for the meat. Why not allow for a smaller deer take this year, so hopefully the DEC might issue more doe permits to those who really want them next year?? Just too much to ask from you guys I guess.. And then WE are the ones being called the "brown and it's down guys"! LOL

OK, so since the DEC thinks only 900 permits should be given out and since you got a deer already this year, I am hoping that you will do your what's "best for the health of the herd" duty and NOT take another deer this year in this unit. Remember, YOU guys are the "stewards" all the rest of us should look up to, after all!

There surely isn't such a shortage in other areas to a point where they hardly give out any doe permits. Yes, there are a few other places that aren't giving them out, but it's just funny that a couple of AR units would be included while some bordering non-AR units DO have a good supply of doe permits available. As I said, something doesn't seem to add up here with the droves of "care for the health of the herd" hunters you claim to have in these units.

You would think hunters of all people would understand this, but I guess some just can't. I don't know why this is, but some hunters, even the ones who think are the ones doing things ethically and the proper way have a tendency to not think straight.

I would like to know why deer numbers have decreased in a few of these AR units where they have barely given out doe permits in the last few years?? Exactly what happened? I have a friend who used to have NO problem getting a doe permit in one of these areas. If there were as many "care for the health of the herd" AR proponents as you guys claim in these areas, you would think they would have been more conscious of what was happening to their herd, don't you? And since you guys claim that 70% + of the hunters are in favor of AR's in these units, don't go blaming the "brown and it's down" guys for shooting off all the does either. Something is not making a whole lot of sense here. If everyone was so into this "care for the health of the herd" mentality down there they would not have let the herd get to where it is today.

I honestly think that someone who isn't interested in hunting in any way doesn't want to see pictures of us posing with dead deer whether they are cleaned up or not. Hunting pictures are mostly for other hunters, so why should any of them be offended with a bit of blood?

Bingo! They hope that you pass up bucks that will eventually end up on their land where they can blast them. If anyone thinks hunting isn't a selfish game for many, then one hasn't been hunting long enough.

Isnydes, if you are against "the thrill of the kill", you surely shouldn't give the AR supporters any more credit than anyone else. A good many of them will try to fill every tag they have also. They may pass up the bucks, but if they fill the tags with does instead they are still reducing the deer numbers just like those who hunt for meat only. I will have way more respect for those that fill their tags and DO eat the meat themselves I honestly think anyone who hunts and doesn't like or eat the venison is hunting for the "thrill of the kill" only. What else are they hunting for then?? To donate the meat to the poor? That is just an excuse for them to get that "thrill of the kill" and nothing more. If I want to help the poor I will help them in other ways. Venison donation won't be a way that I will help them. I will bet a good many poor people don't want anything to do with venison either, so what's the point? I will hunt for what I need only, and this way I know that I won't be using any excuses to kill more than I need just for that "thrill of the kill"!

Yup, Culver is a man WITH hunting experience and who knows what he's talking about. His opinions are not based on what some Texas biologists say, but what he has witnessed himself. What he says is reality, unlike the fantasy of some of the others.

If you remember it you are most likely in your mid 40's or older. They used to give losing contestants a year supply of it. These young bucks around here don't know a lot of things it seems!

Exactly what questions are YOU asking me here?? I am giving my opinion here of what I think would happen if we adopted Ohio's ways and YOU guys are giving yours. Absolutely NONE of us knows for sure what would really happen. If you think your opinions hold any more value than mine and are more likely to make hunting better in NY, you can continue believing it to your hearts delight! All I can tell you is that you shouldn't hold your breath that NY will be adopting Ohio's ways any time soon!

I'm not a huge crossbow proponent, but this is simply false. NY has a high bowhunting population...about 220k IIRC. More bowhunters stop hunting because of age/physical stature than any other issue. Crossbows will help hunters (regardless of draw loc use) hunt longer (retention) into their elder years. Most states that allow crossbows throughout also have younger average age of entering hunters. PA is a fail for many reasons, not simply AR. And, remember, I'm against AR. Yeah, and a substantial percentage of NYS bowhunters aren't even in favor of crossbows during bow season. So you think these guys will do an about face when they get old and lame and go out and get that crossbow? Again, I HIGHLY doubt it.

Dang, you fellas really must be living in fantasy land if you think crossbows are going to have any significant effect on hunter numbers. You can keep dreaming on like you guys do with most things, I guess! LOL

You say that the retention rate is way better in OH, IA and IL, why don't you also point out that PA has lost over 200,000 hunters in the last 10 years? So why did hunters in PA quit?? Heck, PA even adapted AR's to make it a better quality state, so what the heck happened there? Your suggestion that gun hunters take up crossbows has got to be the joke of the week! Exactly why would any gun hunter give up their gun for that contraption?? If crossbows are made legal during bow season in NY, it will have a mighty little effect on gun hunters going out and spending close to $1000 on a weapon that is NO better than an ordinary bow. I'm sorry, but making crossbows legal will have a zero effect on hunter retention OR on new hunters taking up the sport.

And I should also mention lack of time as a huge factor in hunter decline. Give them even less legal hunting time available and tell me why should they even purchase a hunting license??

Do you really think hunters are dropping out of hunting in NYS because the hunting experience is not a quality one?? I HIGHLY doubt that. I would say the biggest reason is lack of available private land to hunt, followed by old hunters dying out and not many young people taking it up. You make this state a "quality" state and you will have even MORE resident hunters without private land to hunt. Only the highest bidders will have land to hunt while everyone else will be left with public land that will be so overhunted that it will pretty much be worthless. You think hunter numbers are dwindling now in NYS, just wait until a scenario like you suggest would come to fruition! Every state is unique. Just because hunting is run a certain way in Ohio, don't mean it would work in NY. The vast majority of hunters in NY are gun hunters. Shorten their season like they have in Ohio and you will see license sales plummet. Yeah, sure many will continue to hunt, but those that are luke warm about it and there are quite a few of them out there, will surely not shell out the money for a license then. Why should they??

This then begs the question, Why does the DEC support such a program which it deems unnecessary? Enforement of this program costs money and at at time where the DEC's coffers have been reduced; perhaps the funds devoted to such a program which only serves a minority could be better off earmarked for more deserving endeavors. Good question! Sure seems like the DEC is contradicting themselves by saying that AR's are biologically unnecessary and yet letting them continue in at least these units. The only thing I could think of is that they want to give them at least a few more years before they make a final decision, this way the supporters can't b*itch up a storm saying that the DEC didn't give it a chance. I know for a fact that there are more than a few disgruntled hunters in these units who can't even draw doe tags and then are told that the buck has to at least have 3 points to a side. Stuff like that will get people to give up hunting for good. When the DEC sees that AR's just might be effecting license sales, the decision then won't be very hard for them to make!

Well yeah, it usually boils down to who has the $ to push their agenda. Some sportsman clubs with some clout and $ were the ones to make AR's happen in the several units in the Catskills, and the same was tried unsuccessfully last year in a few more units. I think the DEC wised up after being bamboozled the first time and realized what this agenda is all about. The DEC may not be as dumb as some of you think.

I hope so! You guys keep telling us to stop making comments about your AR units since we don't hunt in them and now you want the rest of the state to implement them also? Why don't you keep your AR's to yourselves, and not push then on anyone else! As has been posted many times before, the DEC has stated that they see NO biological need for them. I am sure that you guys will miss more than a few more deer before you see AR's implemented statewide. LOL In fact you may be hanging up your weapons for good before you see them implemented! LOL Sure why not, majority of hunters want them. Thats coming from the DEC that you cherrish so much for their "no biological need" despite proof and studies that show otherwise. :-* Yeah, proof and studies from unbiased sources like the QDMA? LOL If the DEC knew that AR's wouldn't tick off a good percentage of hunters out there and knew for sure that AR's were a sound biological practice, you'd be darned sure that they WOULD have already implemented them. But the truth is that they know that a good many hunters who hunt (and purchase licenses) don't care whether the deer they shoot have big horns or not and they also know that these studies YOU talk about are very self serving an flawed in many ways. Thus, they made the statement they did and thus we DON'T have AR's anywhere other than the units in the Catskills. Obviously your proof and studies and the numbers of supporters out there have done JACK to convince them otherwise!