nyantler

Sorry but I'm not seeing what is being taken away from bowhunters... It will still be the longest seasons of all the seasons... even though there are less bowhunters than gun hunters overall... you're right bowhunters have been pushing for an Oct. 1st start for a long time... they are alway pushing for something and probably won't be satisfied until they get it all... I do agree that there doesn't need to be any muzzleloader season in the southern zone during or before the regular bowhunting season.. if the DEC is actually looking to control population better... they should look at extending the gun season farther into December. I personally don't think they know what to do... because no matter what they propose... hunters will have a bitch... that's just the way it is

Doc, I think it's wrong for someone to be talked down to because you don't conform to their ethics. And by no means have this legislature , or any other legislate your ethics for you. You can't teach ethics either you have it or you don't. Dave You absolutely can teach ethics... but that doesn't mean that the person being taught will learn them... and we all know the same ethics and what is ethical or not... we have ourselves created different degrees of ethical behavior to justify whatever actions we decide to take... some people sleep just fine knowing how they conduct themselves.. but remember Ted Bundy slept well too knowing how he conducted himself ... did that make his conduct okay?.. just something to think about.

You are right, these laws will do little. What we need is some sort of uniform nationwide system in transferring guns whether they are being bought and sold from dealers or in private sales. You guys keep saying that criminals get guns illegally which holds little water when ALL guns leave Ruger, S&W, Glock, etc LEGALLY. The difference to what is legal and illegal in this country as far as guns are concerned is blurry at best. If you buy a gun from a dealer you need to go thru a background check, while tomorrow you can sell it to anyone you want, with NO questions asked in many cases. This is obviously where the breakdown is occurring. If all guns enter the market legally, how and why are they ending up in criminals hands?? Maybe some get stolen, but that surely is not how most criminals get them. It sure seems to me that many of these "legal" purchasers are in one way or another putting "legally" bought guns in criminals hands. I don't know why some of you can't see what is happening here? If criminals don't buy guns like the rest of us do, than we need to think about exactly how the guns did end up in their hands. The problem in my opinion is that many of you just can't accept that many of us "legal" and law-abiding gun purchasers may not be such upstanding citizens that we think we are since criminals end up getting the guns from us. Like I said it's not like Ruger, S&W or Glock, opens up it's back doors and sell them directly to criminals to pass around to each other. All that is needed here is some honest analysis of how things transpire, and you will get the picture. No, there will never be any gun law to solve all the problems here, but I don't believe eliminating laws will make things better either. That in my opinion is the ultimate wishful thinking. Guns get in the hands of criminals the same way liquor got in the hands of people during prohabition... criminals seem to have a knack for getting what they want and getting around the laws ALWAYS. Not one gun law created has ever stopped criminals from getting guns or stopped people from getting shot by criminals... find me one that does and I'll be all for it.. Even if our government banned gun purchases all together and made it totally illegal to own, buy, sell or possess a gun... criminals would still have guns.. the only people that wouldn't have them are law abiding citizens.. similar to heroine.. which is entirely illegal to buy, sell, own, or possess yet somehow with all the laws people still seem to be able to get it... funny too.. because we don't produce any of the heroine here in America either... and how things transpire has nothing to do with laws imposed on legal law abiding citizens... if you really look at how things transpire you certainly will get the picture... gun laws don't do anything to stop what they have been touted to stop or slow down...GUN CRIME its all BS and nothing could be more obvious... if you think different... just look at Washington DC with the harshest gun laws in the country... and the highest gun crime rate anywhere in America... yeah.. the laws seem to be doing great there :

We also have a much longer archery season than gun season so I would say that the archery season is very very very very long and they are proposing 2 more weeks on top of that... not sure where the bitch is there.

Yeah thats a cool looking rug...nice

Antler, I think the debate is if legal or not and we know there is no law against food plots to attract deer. Just like any other topic that we respond to it's not illegal so therefore it's OK. I don't have any food plots on my property and don't intend to have any.Dave I think you misread my post.. Illegal or not.. was the start of the next sentence.. meaning whether the question posed is illegal or not there is still the question of whether its ethical... if your conscience doesn't bother you and its legal.. have at it... You can't have it both ways. If it's legal to have food plots then why is it unethical? If something is legal according to the DEC then they put us in an unethical position according to you. Why is something legal and at the same time unethical according to some hunters?Dave Because ethics are subjective and legal is black and white. What is ethical to you may not be to me... but legal is the same to both of us.

If you bowhunt to put meat on the table.. then I would think you would bowhunt regardless of which sex you could hunt.. I would think that the importance of feeding your family would make you just try harder for the meat of a buck...especially seeing how you only have a window from about Oct. to Dec. to make sure your family has enough meat for the year.

John.. your kid looks a bit like Arnold Shwartzenager..

Antler, I think the debate is if legal or not and we know there is no law against food plots to attract deer. Just like any other topic that we respond to it's not illegal so therefore it's OK. I don't have any food plots on my property and don't intend to have any.Dave I think you misread my post.. Illegal or not.. was the start of the next sentence.. meaning whether the question posed is illegal or not there is still the question of whether its ethical... if your conscience doesn't bother you and its legal.. have at it...

The key phrase there is "we're killing deer" not hunting deer... like I said.. to each his own. And the difference between food plots and tracking deer... LOL nevermind.. if I have to explain it you wouldn't understand anyway.

The truth is that they really don't know what the hell they are doing yet... they make proposals I think to see how bad hunters jump down their throat... anyone that stops buying a deer hunting license just because they take away a few tags... I guess isn't really that into "HUNTING" anyway. Gotta start teaching those that are suppose to be teaching the youngsters about hunting that it isn't just about how many.. but about how much fun.

I guess.. to each his own... I just don't see the attraction myself... but I guess some guys enjoy it..

Is it illegally baiting... probably not... but I think that if you are doing it with the intention of attracting deer to the area to be killed... illegal or not.. there still might be a question of ethics... not sure why guys wouldn't just want to kill deer the old fashioned way... like maybe actually hunt them...

There is definitely something there that the deer really like... too many deer congregating in one spot to just be a scrape... my guess would be ground minerals or someone put something there without you knowing it. Deer would never expel that much energy at one spot without a reason.

I'm even more glad that there isn't really any changes that the DEC could make (other than no hunting season at all) that would change my hunting experience even a little. Changing dates, AR's, more doe permits, less doe permits... none of those things mean anything to me when it comes to me enjoying hunting... some of my best hunting years were years I didn't even take a deer... I think I said once before.. that if there was only one deer left in the world to hunt.. I would still have a great time hunting it!!

Still sounds like deer hunting to me...I don't hunt anywhere in region 4 so I guess it doesn't matter anyway

Way to go , John ... congrats...

Times haven't changed... the only change is that there are some that don't like people taking care of their own lives... they would rather see the government babysitting and controlling citizens lives thinking they know what is best... How many times does it have to be proven that everything they touch turns to crap for the average American... more and more constitutional freedoms taken away in the name of change... it's BS... it's just a power grab by politicians and and rich liberals that have no idea how the average middle class Americans live... it amazes me how many buy in to their crap.

If we do away with NICS checks as some here advocate, or any other existing gun laws, what would be the difference between a legally bought gun and one illegally bought? ??? How would it be any different if one buys a gun at a gun shop with no questions asked or on a street corner? When you say 'legal", you are implying there are laws associated with it. If there were NO gun laws, there could be NO distinction to what is legal and what isn't, and in that case there would be NO difference buying one from a gun dealer or some slime bucket on a street corner. Just an FYI for you fellas who hate ALL gun laws, yet use the same worn out tune that "criminals don't buy guns legally". If there is no law against it... then it is legal... even if a criminal does it... the point that was made about NICS checks is that they are unnecessary because they do not stop criminals from getting guns... a criminal that wants a gun can get one anywhere on the black market... NICs checks or not... so they only serve to further hassle law abiding citizens and do nothing to stop ciminals from getting guns or committing a crime. The difference between buying a gun from a dealer and the street corner... is that the gun dealer has rules to follow to operate and must have a license... the street corner guy doesn't... thats why criminals buy off the street corner and us law abiding citizens don't. For the record I'm not against all gun laws... just the ones that do nothing to stop gun crimes... which happens to be almost all of them

Sorry that you are first discovering this, but there are more of us out there than you obviously realized. Some are reluctant to let their opinions known about this, especially on a forum such as this, while I surely am not. I will say it again, and you guys can do the math if you are capable. If only 4 million are NRA members out of 70 million gun owners out there, you can scratch your own heads as to why they only have less than 6% of gun owners as members. Of course in your own minds you are the defenders of freedom while 66 million other gun owners and the rest of non-gun owners in this country are all left-wing communists. Whichever way you slice it guys, you are obviously outnumbered, even amongst your fellow gun owners! LOL That is a ridiculous comment to make. It's like saying that if you don't go to church you don't believe in God. You are assuming that the gun owners and hunters who are not NRA members are against the NRA. They may very will agree with the NRA but just don't pay to do it.Dave Actually if you do believe in God, why wouldn't you go to church? At least a good percentage of the time if not every Sunday. There are plenty of churches out there of all denominations that should fill anyones bill who claims to believe in a God. Once again you boys are twisting things the ways you THINK people should think. I have yet to hear any of you address the reasons for why you think 66 million gun owners choose not to join the NRA? Saying that the 4 million are the savers of freedom while not addressing the other 66 million gun owners reasons for not joining is BS in it's purest form. The best you guys can do is call them cheap and not wanting to pay dues. Anyone with half a brain can figure that there's got to be more reasons than that when people pay more for their freakin cell phones per month than a 1 years membership to the NRA would cost. Of course you guys are far from rational thinkers, so I won't be holding my breath for honest and straightforward reasons directly out of your own mouths. The reason that 66 million gun owners don't belong to the NRA is simply apathy... the same reason that only 30% of the U.S. population votes... the same reason that only a dozen people out of hundreds at your local gun club do all the work for the club.. Simple American made APATHY... like Dave says... people would rather ride on others coat tails than get involved ... it might take up too much of their MTV, or beer drinking time... or interrupt their texting... and lets face it.. it IS because they are cheap as well... oh, and I might as well throw in ingnorant to what is really going on with our gun rights... I'm curious whether Steve or virgil support any hunting or gun related organizations... maybe they're just waiting for their new poster boy Mark Zuckerberg to start up a "kill what you eat" club that they can join.. :

No.. they will look at Zuckerberg and say.. "Oh no, he is one of them!"... then start trashing him the way they trash all hunters and gun owners... You all have this notion that anti-gun and anti hunting can somehow be persuaded to all of a sudden change their position on guns and hunting. They hate guns and they hate hunting.. not because of you or me... but because of their twisted and misguided veiws on life in general... and we should not concern ourselfs with trying to appease them in anyway. Seriously... you trash Ted Nugent because you want to make the antis feel better and Mark Zuckerberg is your new poster boy???? Unbelievable. :

Well said Doc.

Easy access to guns by criminals has nothing to do with whether or not there is a new gun law passed.. or whether or not there is a NICS check system... meaning that neither is doing anything to reduce the use of guns for crimanal purposes... hence they are unnecessary and only serve to hinder gun purchases for law abiding citizens. Find me a gun law that actually can keep a criminal from ever getting a gun and I'll be all for it... one does not exist because criminals do not buy their guns legally.

It is not my opinion .. it is fact that NICS checks do nothing to reduce crime... because it does not prevent gun crimes and does not keep criminals from attaining guns... it only slows down the process for getting a gun for law abiding citizens... therefore yes I would be for scraping it... if it in fact prevented criminals from getting guns then I would be all for it... but it doesn't... as a matter of fact.

I venture to guess that of the millions of facebook users there are only a small amount who even know who Mark Zuckerberg is ... and for the record... his genius was that he was masterful in how he screwed over his best friends and stole the idea of facebook from fellow classmates... shear genius!!