nyantler

I would tend to agree with that... I have a bit of that sometimes myself... although I never fail to fill my doe tags... I just happen to save them for another time during the season to allow me to be in the woods all season. I have certainly heard and seen evidence of what you're talking about. I believe it is very common as well. I think it goes back to what I said about hunters not being as conservation minded as they might let on... again most hunters are consumers, not conservationist. I would take a doe first before killing a buck if it was required and made sense to me... I wouldn't feel like it was being forced on me unless it made absolutely no sense at all... I usually try to give the DEC the benefit of the doubt even when I'm somewhat reluctant of their motive. Honestly, most all of the newer regulation changes have little affect on my hunting experience.

My only contention is that I truly do not believe hunter mentality is not the same in those states... NY hunters are as difficult to manage as the deer in NY... lol

I think you're more right than some may think... we tend to think that most hunters have the best interest of deer in mind because some of us are surrounded by hunting buddies that have similar mindsets as ours. But, I think the truth is that outside of our inner circles there is a hunting culture more like you described. My involvement in deer hunting has me talking to hunters from all over the state and I find myself cringing when I hear most hunters talk about their approach to deer hunting. I am well aware that I am in the minority when it comes my approach to doing my part as a conservation minded hunter... unfortunately I have seen more of the old school mentality of my fathers generation when it comes to acceptance of true deer management ideals. I don't come across many hunters that see themselves as management tools... I see more consumer type attitudes than conservation attitudes... thankfully I also see a trend growing towards more educated, conservation minded hunters, but it is small and moving way too slowly... and even they are skewed a bit by the grow bigger buck frenzy that has made it's way into the hunter population. Until we change the old school mindsets there will continue to be the tug of war that's going on now.

I think you just made my point... until the objective is explained to hunters and the solutions start to make sense... OBR will simply be an additional problem to be juggled in an already confusing management plan by the DEC. Throwing one more wrench in the works doesn't make sense to me at this point. No one really has been told what, where and why we have a management problem... or how any of the recent changes are going to fix those problems... we need to establish that first. Then maybe a viable solution with hunter input can be entertained.

I'm inclined to agree with you if we're talking about bucks only... my point is more to overall deer management efforts based on where we are at this point. If we were starting at "0" I would be totally in favor of OBR, but we're starting behind the eight ball... I'm not sure OBR will even get us to "0"... I think the answer is far more complicated than that at this point. I liken it to trying to fix a rusty old car from the junkyard by just putting on a coat of paint without fixing all that is wrong with the car under the hood. Once the car is completely restored maintaining the new car is much easier. Once our management issues are repaired then OBR might be a great maintenance tool.

I believe you might be correct if it doesn't force many hunters from hunting at all after their buck tag is filled... it would all stem on hunter satisfaction with the program and whether or not they understand what the objective is... I would just remind you that most hunter aren't as conservation minded as you and I... or even understand proper deer management. I think that those hunters who are conservation minded are probably already doing what needs to done on their own. I also think that the OBR won't be as well received by most hunters as some might think... it's hard to take away something after it's already been implemented. I've heard too many concerns about not being able to take "the buck of a lifetime" with the new doe only rule implemented this year if the opportunity were to present itself... that leads me to believe that when faced with the option of taking a buck with bow then having to pass on a monster during gun because you only have doe tags left will send most NY hunters packing on the idea of a OBR when actually faced with that reality. JMO... I admit I don't have as much faith as you in NY hunters doing the right thing. But again, I can't say that you aren't right...you could be.

A one buck rule would have little impact on the amount of bucks taken because most hunters don't kill two and most kill none... it may allow for more does to be killed for those that get a buck early. I fail to see the advantage for NY at this stage of the game. If circumstances were different in NY it might be a viable conservation technique. But, it won't solve any current problems with deer populations or enhance conservation efforts based on what's going on now in NY. The DEC telling hunters what the problem IS, and explaining what the plan IS would be a far better short term solution than any 1 buck rule. Then, of course, hunters must actually getting on board with that plan.

The big change for me has been the clothing... finding a good pair of boots and gloves 40 years ago was tough... the introduction of fleece dropped a bunch of weigh from the wool I wore back then without sacrificing warmth... The only thing that really didn't change for me are my weapons, which remain very traditional. I also have consistently made more stringent criteria for how and what animals I take... the harder the hunt, the more I enjoy it.

Exactly... when given lemons, make lemonade.

http://www.nyantler-outdoors.com/monster-bucks.html

great pics!

I totally agree.. after talking to some of the biologists and hearing their responses to some of my questions I've come to the conclusion that they are completely satisfied with not knowing what they're talking about and willing to produce as much BS as possible to justify what they don't know.

No matter how the DEC makes it's decisions.. they should be based on, at the very least, common sense... which seems to be lacking given the latest ideas coming out of the department, which really suggests incompetence more than anything else.

could be deer Fibroma... http://www.nyantler-outdoors.com/deer-fibroma.html

you could be right.. but it could also be from the additional growth of the beam... honestly, I couldn't say one way or the other for sure. It's just a pretty buck

Off topic I know.. but, absolutely can stop him... by telling him you'll turn him in if he does... what he does alone without your knowledge is one thing... when you are aware of what he is doing and you allow it to happen without doing anything about it.. you become just as guilty of poaching as him.

Well save a tag for the crossbow season this year... problem solved.

The white patch on the left side of the nose is also missing in the third pic... can't tell in pic 4 if it's present... third pic is definitely a different buck.

notice the tiny little sticker in front of the left g3 - If you look close it still shows up in the last picture... same buck. But, the third pic is of a slightly longer tined buck... doesn't appear to be the same as the other three.

The best secret to killing big bucks on public land is to "get in the woods" far from where others are hunting... big bucks tend to hang in the same kind of real estate no matter where they live... hunting those kind of big buck haunts is the secret... most hunters don't venture into those areas because they are nasty places to hunt. Over the years I have found that guys who have never killed a big buck rarely hunt real big buck areas... I have many friends that kill big bucks on a regular basis and knowing those areas is the common denominator. I can tell you that the areas are more than 100 yards off the road.

I think the real problem is that they fail to see the importance of keeping hunters happy while still doing conservation a good service. Keeping the hunter population up has got to be in the equation... it makes a good management plan possible especially when population control is the goal. The DEC won't get far by pissing off any faction of the hunting population.

What hunters say a buck scores and what it actually scores are two different things... scoring bucks is kinda what I do and have been doing for about 25 years... that being said, the guy did the right thing if killing the biggest buck of his life was what he was out to do... But, neither buck was as big as they say... I would have taken the second buck though without hesitation just on character alone. For me the size of the bucks was not the coolest part of the video... I was more amazed by what that broadhead did upon impact... there was some serious blood drawn in a hurry... that was impressive

Love your pics wooly...

The first buck wasn't 120... and he would have definitely gotten a pass. He was a very handsome buck however. The second buck was a dandy... the guy mad a great shot too.

I think asumption and opinion are two dofferent things... In my opinion I think Doc is probably right... there is no way to say yes or no not knowing for sure.. but I'm still allowed my opinion of what I think is going on. I can say however that mine and Docs opinion are pretty right on given what we do know and the lack of any credible logic behind what the DEC is doing... and why would they want the harvest done in October?... and why wouldn't they want it done in the most efficient way ( during the gun season) ... none of what they are doing makes any sense as far as conservation goes... so the logical thought would be that they have another agenda.