nyantler

The "not bone driven" hunter if presented with a choice between two deer standing in front of him a doe and a 150 class buck will pick the buck every time... just because a hunter can't kill a buck doesn't mean he doesn't want to... and just because some of us choose to hunt big bucks doesn't mean we don't like hunting for antlerless deer as well... it's just a choice for some of us, just like killing smaller bucks is a choice for others... big buck hunting for me is my chance to get away and have a good time. I just don't see how horn hunting drives up the price of anything. In fact, I would think that all the fancy gear, scents, blinds, treestands, four wheelers and other unnecessary junk that the weekend warrior needs to gather is more expensive than the clothes on my back and a weapon that I carry. Sorry, but I just don't see your point. That's a nice buck in that avatar of yours by the way... I'm guessing by your post that you must have been disappointed that the deer had antlers.

The law is that you call an EnCon officer in that situation... that is the legal way... shooting the deer may have been noble, but for some reason you decided not to notify officials of the incident... that in itself is suspicious. You can't just make your own decision to dispatch a deer after legal hunting hours.

Whatever... but to your credit you're right... you aren't a name caller

I don't leave the vehicle until sunrise

I think that if AR's had been implemented 100 years ago and the DEC was trying to get it changed to a 3" antler rule now... this argument would be the same.. only in reverse... NY hunters are always divided on almost every issue that has to do with deer hunting... it wouldn't matter if the rule was the ultimate for conservation... the truth is very few hunters care a hoot about conservation... in fact, they prefer over population because it means more deer... they don't care about herd health, age structure, improving natural food sources.. just what ever makes it easier for them is what they want... and that's okay... they make up the majority of NY hunters so they will have the loudest voice... that's how things work... but we are slowly seeing a push for better age class that wasn't around 10-15 years ago... who knows what the future brings... I like the fact that many more hunters are now passing younger bucks on their own without any law telling them... many of them are younger hunters too... and they are the future of hunting.

Oops... My apologies then.

Editing your original statement doesn't get you off the hook... yes you did say unethical hunter... I read it a few times to make sure... but I guess that's the kind of thing we can expect from you now that we know a bit more about your ethics... and if you go back and read my posts I never called you unethical... just voicing my difference of opinion... that's kinda what we do here... but after your post edit trick I do question your integrity...

http://www.nyantler-outdoors.com/2014-new-york-whitetails.html

I disagree... the fun of deer hunting is what keeps us all doing it... AR's serve only a small portion of total deer management... without the hunter numbers to deal with population control you will never have truly healthy herds... the constant loss of deer habitat makes it imperative that we control population to prevent rampant disease that could be devastating to herds across the state... as much as I'm for young buck protection... AR's without all the rest of deer management serves only the trophy hunter who really cares nothing about conservation... good deer management needs lots of hunter participation...and really if you think that deer hunting is all serious business then you're missing out on all the fun the rest of us are having.

From DEC report to 2010 The number of 2.5+ year old bucks in the harvest has increased since implementation of ARs. However, the increase has not fully compensated for the reduction in yearling harvest, and total buck take has generally remained >20% below pre-AR levels. WMU 3H was the only unit where total buck take has returned to the level immediately prior to AR.

I agree most probably don't have a problem with it... My problem, other than its the law, is that if you give most hunters an inch.. they'll take a mile... For all the praying guys do over their deer and talking about the respect they give the deer... and all the talk about not giving the anti's any ammo... etc etc... those same guys think there is nothing wrong with bending the rules just to say they got a deer... sorry but I just can't wrap myself around that mentality. I'll even bet many don't even know what time sunrise or sunset is in their area on any particular day. I just would rather do the right thing... if that means not getting a deer... then so be it... or if I was stupid enough to not follow the law I would sure as hell be willing to suffer the consequences for my actions if I got caught... no excuses. It is my responsibility and nobody else's to know the times and make sure I adhere to them. If someone killed a B&C buck 5 minutes after shooting time, knowing that he was past legal sunset... what story could he have to tell the rest of his or her life about that hunt that wasn't a lie?

For the record... the above is still true no matter how much of a law breaker any of us are... its not a "holier than thou" stance.. it's just he truth.

We aren't taking about assault rifles.. we're taking about not abiding by a long time established designation of when you can legally kill an animal.. set as a way of insuring the safety of ALL hunters without any ambiguity... justifying breaking that established time frame because you don't like it shows a lack of integrity and ethics... we're not talking about racism, sexism or bias in this case... or even a conspiracy by the DEC to keep you from killing a deer... it is simply a way to make sure that nobody pushes the envelope by hunting until THEY think it is too dark... the law ensures that there is ample light for EVERYONE not just you or any other guy that wants to create his own limits... killing a deer is not so important, nor so hard, that anyone needs to hunt beyond the establish time frame... it's so simple... the start a quit times are given to us to the minute... I would be all for a half hour before sunrise and after sunset, but I would like it to be that you have to be out of the woods and back to your camp, home, or vehicle by then... I bet you would see many more after legal hunting tickets given out then. But, I can see we'll have to just agree to disagree on this one. To answer your question... no, you would not be an unethical hunter if you owned an unregistered assault rifle because you don't have to be a hunter to own an assault rifle... but you would be a criminal... like it or not. I'm sure there are gang members that have all kinds of illegal weapons and wish the laws were different as well. Ethics, by definition is an area of study that deals with ideas about what is good and bad behavior... breaking the law is bad behavior... that makes shooting a deer outside of legal shooting time bad behavior.. hence it is unethical

You're right you should have kept the Hawken... never fix what isn't broken ... the old time side hammer is way more fun... never know when it's going to misfire

usually more than a few hours from the nearest road

I didn't say guys didn't do it... I'm sure lots of guys do it.. that is not an excuse for the law... safety or no safety... if you are doing it illegally then you are also being unethical... ethics talks to integrity... a person that knowingly breaks the law has no integrity... therefore no ethics.. tagging, baiting, and shooting a deer outside of legal shooting time are the same thing... illegal... if you need to cheat in order to get a deer you are no hunter IMO. It will always be wrong unless the law is changed... until then you are poaching, not hunting. If someone is stupid enough to risk a fine and/or loss of their license they get what they get. Even if you don't get caught.. you know you did it... and I'm sure that detail would be left out of the story. Not a deer to be proud of...

No.. we all do not agree... the important thing is that we all follow the law and there will be no ambiguity which insures safety... using sunrise and sunset times insures that there is ample light for everyone... no guessing... we can not rely on hunters to always do the right thing.. which has been proven by some of the posts in this thread.

Could be anything from a buck fight to a car accident... injury early on could be... or some kind of pedicle damage... hard tellin', not knowin'

All of you that have had the luxury of hunting with your fathers into there 70's and 80's feel blessed for what time you've had.. I lost my Dad at 59 years old... I have missed out on a lot of father-son hunting over the years that I truly miss... just be thankful that you have had all those extra years that many don't get.

I leave my truck at legal shooting time and hunt into where I'm going then hunt my way out so that I'm back to the truck by legal sunset... yes even when bow hunting... that leaves no grey area.

yeah.. you kind of won't see the harm until you get caught... then I'm thinkin' the fine and loss of license might hurt just a little... but then again if someone will shoot a deer before or after legal shooting time, I'm sure not having a license won't stop them either. The problem will always be that no matter what time frame is established by the DEC... there will always be those that will try to push the envelope... 30 minutes after sunset turns into 35 and so on...

Story Here..http://www.nyantler-outdoors.com/adirondack-muzzleloader-buck.html

at least 3.5...can't tell much more without the jawbone... that is a BIG BIG 8... just a great buck!

What a buck! That is a brute!! HUGE 8!!!!

If you are blind calling you can't over call as long as you keep each sequence far enough apart... giving enough time for a deer in range to react to the call if they're going to... if you're trying to call a buck in that you have in your vision you can watch to see his reaction to know if you need to make another call... if they aren't reacting .... you need to call louder or sometime more aggressively... and even then he may act like he doesn't hear the call... I've called in more bucks than I can count.. and one thing I'll say is that you never know what will happen when calling... but I'll also say that there were some big bucks that I never would have killed without my grunt call... I never go in the woods without it.