Jennifer

Grouse populations are really complicated in all the variables that effect their size. Even where their habitat is prime and they are not over hunted (by people or predators), their population is highly cyclic. The two biggest factors that 'we' know of (again assuming good habitat) are winter conditions and the cycle of the Aspen tree. Grouse often rely heavily on aspen buds and there are some years that the aspen produces a toxic coating to the buds (thought to ward off pests). During those years grouse do not fare well. Grouse also tend to thrive when winters are cold and snowy, contrary to one might think. The truth is, we are only just scratching the surface and biologists aren't really sure what triggers the cycles and why the population fluctuates so much. Here's a good article that explains some of the grouse cycle: http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/sepoct10/grouse_cycle.html

I am thankful for all of my respectful, ethical fellow hunters! Without you, I no doubt wouldn't be able to hunt. Without you, there would probably not be any type of hunting programs in NY the way that we enjoy them today. Thank you all, and be excellent to one another. Share opinions if you are inclined, for you have every right to them, but share them in a respectful and constructive way.

I eat reds all the time. They can have a slight pine odor because that's where they like to live and they chow on pine a lot, but they don't taste like it. They are smaller though.

Based on my own unscientific observations, I too think that deer process scent information along with many variables, and react to it correspondingly, the way that Doc, Cory and Joe have mentioned. Here's an example: when I am out doing yard work, or tending my chickens, or whatever, I often have deer in my yard. I have hundreds of photos I've taken of them, some at less than 12 yards. The wind sure does blow at my back and into their faces and they don't care one lick. Their posture and body language is totally relaxed. I've even got some videos of this. We've gotten to where we can even recognize a few individual does. Now, if I walk 200 yards back into my woods, where I (nor anyone else) frequently goes, in the thick swampy areas, and a deer scents me there, she will snort and stomp and crash off, totally put out. I actually watched one doe that we call Goldie browse my yard while I was tending to the chickens. I was walking back and forth across the yard, she could see me and smell me for sure. About 30 minutes later I took my camera for a walk in the woods and ended up in a thick area, where the same doe scented me and was spooked away. Same doe, and I am the same human with the same scent on the same day. Different situations changed her reception of the scent from 'not dangerous' to 'dangerous'. I am not suggesting that it's an active line of logic running through their heads-- science hasn't done enough to prove or disprove anything that grandiose, but I am suggesting that their experiences with scents (or sounds or sights) in repeat situations can really dictate how they react. I think that anyone that's spent much time watching or hunting deer probably realizes that, though! So in the end, I will openly admit that I don't get crazy about scent control. I don't buy special clothing nor do I use cover scents or do anything special to my hunting clothes. I think that if the wind and conditions are against me, they'd smell me even if I did 'extreme' scent control. I just try to work the wind in my favor, and in the end just hope for luck!

The site owner may want to contact their ad broker and let them know that one (or more) of the ads contain malware. Usually the brokers are unaware of it. I will admit that I run my machine with an ad-blocking program because malware carrying ads are getting more and more common. I know that the ads help pay for the site, though, so I still visit text linked ads/sponsors. My computer is my business machine so it's a compromise that works for me and hopefully doesn't harm the site's trickle revenue from ads.

Deerthug, I'm with you this year! Couldn't put eyes on a turkey all season, and then nothing but does during deer seasons (I didn't draw a doe tag). I even got skunked the few times I went out for squirrels. Feels strange to have no meat at all this year! Still, the time in the woods was excellent, as always, and I wouldn't trade it. Plus, I can get back out after squirrels and grouse again now!

Yep!! CRICK here too. I get made fun of by most of my buddies (not from around here).

I hate that too. I am always picking up junk, and sometimes my pack gets pretty full at the end of the day. The worst are plastics and mylar balloons, environmentally. During the summer months, I Geocache and we attend 'cache in, trash out' events on state land.

Good gravy, 7JEveryday, it's folks like you that run the polite visitors off of internet forums. It actually is possible to disagree and have a debate without being nasty about things. Some of the most educational threads on here are among guys that might disagree yet remain civil. That's all I've got to say about that. Best wishes, all.

That's interesting. Thank you so much for sharing your response, WNY!

My wording was pretty crappy, I apologize. He was 200 yards from my home. I am not sure how far he was from the deer. I only knew it was a group of does because I encountered them when going back to talk to him.

These stories are really depressing. Especially after hunting so hard for venison the last three years and coming up empty handed. I think the bucks with heads removed are what disturb me the most... even if a guy doesn't want the meat, I'm really quite sure that he could donate or find someone that did want it. I guess the only consolation is that the deer aren't truly wasted, as nature will recycle them and it feeds other critters. Still, it's unnecessary in most cases. Doc, your story is horrifying. Perhaps even more scary is that I busted someone doing just this right behind my house last week! Threw a few slugs at a group of does about 200 yards behind my house, and he didn't even take a few steps to check for a hit, just turned around to walk back home before I caught up to him. I checked after I talked to him and it didn't appear that he connected with any of the deer. At least he didn't connect with my home or livestock either...!

I'm surprised to say that I haven't found one in all my years of hunting, and I put in a lot of time, and hunt after deer season for small game. I figure I'm probably the exception, though, sadly.

Yep-- I remember growing up, hunting, we hunted so many places! Some gorgeous places that I will always remember. Times have changed. I like that the DEC offers those "Ask permission" stickers. But.. has anyone ever actually seen them used?! My insurance company recommends that I post my property for liability reasons, and begrudgingly I agree, but I'm putting the Ask stickers up...

Congrats to everyone that connected this year, and good luck to those that hit the late season. Today was my last day due to obligations tomorrow and we didn't see or hear anything all day long. Tag soup again this year! The wind was really howling again, wind chill read at around 10°F. Loved my time in the woods and I'll be out after small game in the coming weeks.

I don't take an ATV when I hunt, but yeah I agree. If deer are used to ATVs running around, they don't care at all. It all depends on how acclimatized they are to them.. when and where. Step OFF of the ATV though, and it's a different story. Just like stepping out of a car.

Very unfortunate but it's been happening for eons. I hadn't seen this before, and I don't know what they did with the heads, but how amazing would the three locked-up skulls look, all cleaned?

I'm jealous of everyone with snow. Not a flake on the ground here. We still hunted most of the day until my dad started getting cold this afternoon then packed it in. The wind has really piked up too. Didn't see anything today except a squirrel that fell 50 feet out of an oak tree, bounced once, then ran off. That was pretty funny.

Are you thinking of the Irish Elk? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Elk

Here's an article on antlered does. This is the craziest one I've seen! http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/mayjun04/fndoes.html

I'm pretty young, but I remember the remnants of those signs even growing up in the 80s. Around here, they were usually round, metal, and said simply "No Doe Hunting".

One of the wildlife guys at the DEC (reg. 9) said this as well. I'm sure it's one contributing factor.

Thanks for the clarification. I couldn't remember if we always paid for them or not. My dad calls it his "$10 donation to the DEC" because we don't have to seem to have good luck getting them.

I'm not sure I understand. Why would someone apply for a DMP (which costs $10... not much to some, but right now could be a few meals for some folks) if they didn't want to use it?

That's true. I didn't understand this the first few years of deer hunting... I was used to seeing deer all during small game hunting, and before I could deer hunt it seemed like dad always brought them home so easily (hahaha!!) that it took me a few years to learn that sometimes you get a lot of chances, and sometimes you only get one (or none)!