stubborn1VT

Happy Birthday! Hope it was a "fuzzy" one!

I fished a trout opener (3rd Saturday in January) on year at -24. The fish didn't bite. You have to be careful on the ice, but I'm surprised by how many people are terrified of it. 10" of clear ice will safely hold a tank. 4" of ice will hold the heaviest human alive. The only real consideration is imperfections like pressure cracks, thin spots caused by springs or brooks etc. You have to be aware and know about the body of water you are on, but ice fishing isn't death defying. A few years ago I fished near the Canadian border on Lake Champlain. I was a mile and a half out on an ice road and measured 34" of ice. I haven't been out yet, but soon. I usually just fish on a bucket, but I will have to break out the portable shanty and buddy heater if these temps hold.

I am a fan of A River Runs Through It by Norman MacLean.

There is no way that hunting pressure controls the herd more than the habitat.

My best guess (just a guess) is that they switched to woody browse, and the bugs in the rumen are different than they were earlier.

And here I was thinking that Stone was getting out there with his trusty dog team to run some steel and catch some fur!

-9. I need to go out and feed the birds, bring in more firewood, and see which vehicles will start. I want to go to the library, and should pick up groceries so I can make a corn chowder with ham in it. I really am thankful that I don't have to work in this weather.

My house is in the Champlain Valley and there is tons of farmland. Where I hunt in Central Vermont there is less food. The deer there flock to any kind of brassica. My buddy planted 3 plots on 100 acres, a total of 1.5 acres of just brassicas. They loved them, and he shot a 120" buck, and had dozens of bucks on camera throughout the year. There is no formula, or instruction book. Each property seems to be a case by case scenario. If I saw his results, I would swear by them. I'm not saying they will work for you, but they do work in some places.

I planted turnips and radishes at my house. There is alot of ag around me. The first year the deer ignored them. The second year they ignored them until late winter. This past year, they decided they liked them. They like soybeans better, but they finished up with both turnips and beans about a week ago. My best recommendation is to offer a variety.

Two reported incidents in VT this rifle season. Neither was life threatening, and neither took place in a low light situation. Looking back, the facts would suggest that deer drives lead to more injuries that shooting in low light conditions. The fatalities that have taken place in recent history were from not identifying the target in thick brush, or 45 minutes after sunset. I respect the fact that NY has many more hunters afield than VT, but all of us here managed to legally shoot 30 minutes before sunrise, and 30 minutes after sunset without killing each other.

Don't you ruin a good argument thread with your logic and mathematics!

I suppose we should just leave all matters of common sense and law enforcement to you Doc, as you seem to be the moral authority. By the way, I have hunted half hour before/after for over 30 years, so spare me the lecture.

Pretty sure he was being facetious. That means he wasn't being serious. By the way, I agree with you about proper management. A healthy deer herd makes for great hunting, and covers up some of the stupid things that that states do in "managing" said herd.

So NY is the only state that takes safety seriously? C'mon. I may not agree with all his bravado and chest thumping, he does make some good points. That half hour doesn't make that much difference. The shooting accidents I hear about are well past shooting light. True outlaws are going to shoot what they want, when they want. I hunt in Vermont, and I have seen times when it is quite dark before sunrise. The law says it is legal to shoot half an hour before sunrise. It doesn't say I must shoot. I use a little common sense. I don't get the "holier than thou" attitude over an unenforceable law. I don't understand the infighting. I don't buy the blind acceptance of a law that is out of line with Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, and Ohio. You can just shrug, but I don't see how it is different than speeding, using your phone while driving, or any other law that many people ignore.

Actually, I don't want you to say/type anything. If it wont' make a difference, then just let it go...

I don't think most hunters are worried about license sales. Your observations are subjective, just like everyone else's. You "think" you see less hunters. Believe it or not, that is not true everywhere. Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont all have shorter regular seasons. None of those states "make a living on trophy hunting". I can see both sides when it comes to shortening the season. It would put less stress on the deer herd, but that's not the concern of many hunters. It would also reduce the opportunity for some hunters to get out and fill tags. New York is fairly unique because of the varying climate, topography, deer/hunter density, agriculture etc. I wouldn't want to try to manage its deer herd. I don't know what has you so fired up Storm, but take a breath and enjoy your holidays!

Happy Birthday man! Wishing you the bestest holidays and the "wooliest" 2018!

I agree. Every year my brother and I try to get people to stop buying, but it never happens. It's not the worst thing, but I don't agree with buying just for the sake of buying. I like buying for kids, and my mom. Other than that, I wish everyone would just buy their own presents. Yep. Happy dogs, deer in the freezer, beer in the fridge, dry firewood in the shed. Not too shabby.

Went back out today 11-2. The deer haven't been back after the last snow. I towed out my 6'x10' dump trailer with the Kubota and brought out a small load of blocked firewood. I cut some more elm that I had girdled last winter, as well as some small yellow birch. Dropped a bigger white birch. I stacked up all the brush so it won't get buried in the snow. This coming week looks real cold, so hopefully the deer find it to browse on. I dropped an elm on top of an existing brush pile, and a rabbit busted out. It went right into another brush pile. I'm picking a line to climb the hill and extend my log road. There's more elm and a couple of red maple on top that I'd like for the wood pile. There is also some white oak and cherry that I'd like to clear out around. More softwoods on top of the hill. I'm not sure how aggressive I will get with them. The white pines are to the east, so they don't block a ton of sunlight. I may cut some of the smaller softwood to use to steer critters. I think I will probably end up having a big fire up there to get rid of a bunch of the dead stuff and brush. Anyhow... it's Christmas Eve. People are coming over in an hour or so. Happy holidays all.

Not illegal in NY.

A White Russian with whiskey? Interesting.

Another vote for "If We Make it Through December". Also, "I Will Be Hating You For Christmas" by Everclear

Thanks all. I stayed up late watching Peaky Blinders. It's good, and the subtitles aren't distracting. Longmire was a good one. It was understated, beautiful scenery, and funny at times. I will probably give Mindhunter a shot. I would watch a new episode of Meateater ever single day if I could. I enjoy listening to Steve talk about hunting. It took me almost 4 episodes to get into Stranger Things, but ended up digging it. The 80's stuff is fun to see and I cared about the characters.

Coyotes don't have any specific deer seasons or legal shooting hours. The deer are usually in decent shape in Oct, Nov and Dec, but not so much in March. I also don't think that deer have a terribly tough time avoiding hunters. It doesn't take many calories to bed down in the thick stuff and stay still. I'm not bashing coyotes, but I do think they are better hunters in some ways. I also think that they have no problem living in close proximity to humans. I have rabbits that live around my house, but they live in/under my woodshed. They come out at night to feed and go right back in. Human shielding doesn't extend very far IMO.

Midwest Whitetail