Hydrofracking in the Southern Tier

[SteveB]

And my taxes have doubled in less then 10 years with no change in town services and a declining school enrollment rate.

My real estate agent laughed heartily at at my thoughts that I thought to be able to list my place at even 80% of my assessment and expect to sell for that. Thanks Niles/Moravia and NYS. My town doesn't care about me (which are my neighbors) so if the companies get approval and need a place, here it is.

[Dave]

Progress and help to possible retirement which will never happen without it. Also have family living and working in the NE and NC region of Pa.First hand stories from them about the wells in their backyards are far different then the one sided scare fables being pushed by the anti's in NY. If the neighbors want to object to how I use my 20 acres, they can step up and buy it - it's for sale.

Steve, the amount you think the gas companies will give you will not be enough to retire. I also have 20 acres and a landsman offered me $550 an acre last year for 3 years. He said that's the going rate. How could you retire on that? In 2008 our club was offered $1800 an acre, prices are down and so is the price of gas. Though it has been up on the stock market the past few days. But still not enough to make it profitable for the gas companies to drill. I know how you feel about the taxes I pay high taxes too on Long Island and my house and property up state. But I would never let them drill on my property, I love the land and the privacy.

[PostedBoys Gallego]

I may not know everything there is to know about fracking, but seen enough documentaries and read articles on it and the idea of inserting hundreds of harmful chemicals into the Earth, breaking through the Earth and ending up with toxic water that has to be taken somewhere, is something I am %100 against. Scientists/Government say its safe and 50 years from now we will be drinking manufactured water only. They also do not think about the eco system and wildlife and how easily those toxic wastes can spread. You would think by this day in age you wouldn't need a Doctor to probe your anus to check on you, and we could harness energy from wind/sun/water...

Money runs the world, and will end it.

Think about the future, your children's children and so on, not how much you can make now and retire with. Enjoy the natural beauty while it lasts.

Edited June 22, 2012 by PostedBoys Gallego

[Dave]

Dave. I worked on the ones developed in Avoca. I built the compressor station and installed the distribution piping. We also tapped into the TV Pipeline.

When I was younger I had crews that tapped transmission and Facility lines to instal regulator satations. Some for power houses directly off the facility line at 350# pressure. Others to reinforce the gas distribution system. High, Medium and Low pressure systems. Saw a gas fire on the news tonight in Rocland county. Seems a welder was working on the gas main when it ignited, those thing should never happen we had procedures to that type work. Someone is in deep shit, OSHA will be all over that one.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Based on common conspiracy theories. One would think the antis would want 1) everyone drinking bottled water (control) 2) to keep energy prices high

Seems there is conflicting conspiracies here. Is the idea of cheaper energy due to fracking going to create water issues down the road, or is the prevention of fracking going to keep energy prices nice and high?

[Dave]

Based on common conspiracy theories. One would think the antis would want 1) everyone drinking bottled water (control) 2) to keep energy prices high

Seems there is conflicting conspiracies here. Is the idea of cheaper energy due to fracking going to create water issues down the road, or is the prevention of fracking going to keep energy prices nice and high?

Based on common conspiracy theories. One would think the antis would want 1) everyone drinking bottled water (control) 2) to keep energy prices high

Seems there is conflicting conspiracies here. Is the idea of cheaper energy due to fracking going to create water issues down the road, or is the prevention of fracking going to keep energy prices nice and high?

We wil not have cheap energy as a result of fracking and fracking could result in water issues. That you can bet on. No conspiracy theory here, just the truth. Elmer how many CNG cars are there on the road? Can you tell me where the nearest CNG station is in your area? Probably not, but there are hundreds of gas stations all over the place. Remember gas is trucked to the gas station, natural gas you need a gas pipeline from the sourse to the gas station. How much do you think that will cost? forgetaboutit. It will never lower your energy costs. JMHO silly rabbit

[Dave]

I may not know everything there is to know about fracking, but seen enough documentaries and read articles on it and the idea of inserting hundreds of harmful chemicals into the Earth, breaking through the Earth and ending up with toxic water that has to be taken somewhere, is something I am %100 against. Scientists/Government say its safe and 50 years from now we will be drinking manufactured water only. They also do not think about the eco system and wildlife and how easily those toxic wastes can spread. You would think by this day in age you wouldn't need a Doctor to probe your anus to check on you, and we could harness energy from wind/sun/water...

Money runs the world, and will end it.

Think about the future, your children's children and so on, not how much you can make now and retire with. Enjoy the natural beauty while it lasts.

They said Love Canal was safe too, look what happened there, total disaster.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Your right about the lack of availability Dave. I blame big oil on that one, but looky here! Somebody done put wheels on one of them thar pipelines! They'll even deliver it to your house. You need to get off the island more.

Edited June 22, 2012 by ELMER J. FUDD

[ELMER J. FUDD]

I'm becoming a SteveB fan, but then I read Postedboys post.

[Dave]

Your right about the lack of availability Dave. I blame big oil on that one, but looky here! Somebody done put wheels on one of them thar pipelines! They'll even deliver it to your house. You need to get off the island more.

Elmer you know that, that truck would never be allowed on the streets of NYC. We have a gas company that delivers our gas from a gas line in the street in front of my house. No need to truck it in. I beleive they are for rural deliveries. Areas that don't have a gas distribution system.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

I'm getting to the point where I don't know what to believe anymore. There's so much money on both sides it seems.

Edited June 22, 2012 by ELMER J. FUDD

[Dave]

I'm getting to the point where I don't know what to believe anymore. There's so much money on both sides it seems.

You got that right, follow the money. The oil and gas companies have been throwing millions of dollars lobbying the state capitol. So I think I know what the final out come will be, they will just stall for a while to make it look good. I hate POLITICS AND POLITICIANS

[WNYBuckHunter]

Sorry Dave, but you are mistaken about the wells up here, theymare mostly production wells. The farm that I am speaking of has a deal with the gas company and gets all of their gas for free off the line. The wells up near my fathers are production wells, I know people that own land that some of them are on. Yes, there are some wells around that just never produced much and may be used for storage, but most of them up here still produce.

BTW, there are a bunch of DOT and other state and county CNG vehicles running around this area, and I can tell you where a few CNG filling stations are in The Rochester area.

Why wouldnt NYC allow delivery trucks in? How exactly do they get propane, gas and diesel to the gas stations down there?

I dont think CNG is the end all answer, but its a resource that we need to take advantage of. Solar, wind and water cannot run everything, not unless you want to start ploping down enormous solar and wind farms. Talk about environmental concerns. You should hear people up here bitch about the windmills they have been putting in in recent years.

[PostedBoys Gallego]

They said Love Canal was safe too, look what happened there, total disaster.

Interesting, I did not have a clue about that one. Reading up on it now thanks. Here is one quote so far I found:

Ten years after the incident, New York State Health Department Commissioner David Axelrod (not to be confused with presidential advisor David Axelrod) stated that Love Canal would long be remembered as a "national symbol of a failure to exercise a sense of concern for future generations."^[2] The Love Canal incident was especially significant as a situation where the inhabitants "overflowed into the wastes instead of the other way around."

I know solar/wind/water will not run everything we have in place, but that is where the problem lies. We are still running around using fossil fuels for antique machinery that hog it all up. I'm gonna go watch Back to the Future now... flux capacitors recycling garbage give me hope

Edited June 22, 2012 by PostedBoys Gallego

[Dave]

Sorry Dave, but you are mistaken about the wells up here, theymare mostly production wells. The farm that I am speaking of has a deal with the gas company and gets all of their gas for free off the line. The wells up near my fathers are production wells, I know people that own land that some of them are on. Yes, there are some wells around that just never produced much and may be used for storage, but most of them up here still produce.

BTW, there are a bunch of DOT and other state and county CNG vehicles running around this area, and I can tell you where a few CNG filling stations are in The Rochester area.

Why wouldnt NYC allow delivery trucks in? How exactly do they get propane, gas and diesel to the gas stations down there?

I dont think CNG is the end all answer, but its a resource that we need to take advantage of. Solar, wind and water cannot run everything, not unless you want to start ploping down enormous solar and wind farms. Talk about environmental concerns. You should hear people up here bitch about the windmills they have been putting in in recent years.

I have seen the windmills in Pa. near Carbondale two weeks ago. Just looks wierd, out of place like some futuristic world .As far as CNG stations go you have to be attached to a High pressure Natural gas system, There aren't many around compared to gas stations and not many fleet vehicles order CNG vehicles. I know a few in NYC installed by CON ED but they were for Dept of transportation vehicles. It was like a fad then some companies went back to gas vehicles. CNG will never replace gasoline ever.

[First-light]

I have one of the newest wind projects in my area. Fully functional and there are 25 turbines in my beautiful view from the cabin. It doesn't bother me at all.

Honestly they are more noticeable at night with the blinking red lights. I have NYSEG power lines going through my property. For years they would come and clean the brush and trim trees. About 4 years ago they never came (I thought they didn't come) but noticed all the trees and vegatation dying under the lines. They sprayed it with chemicals to kill it. The chemical also drifted onto my property and killed some other trees. I didn't know what they were using and weren't for-warned. I was pissed and put an end to that. Just goes to show you what kind of crap companies will try to pull.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

That brush killing spray make roundup look like mothers milk.

[Dave]

They said agent orange was harmless too. Sometimes it's hard to believe the gov't on anything they say.

The workers on the railroads had health problems with defoliants sprayed along the tracks. It's like we will worry when they try to sue, then they tie you up in court till you die. Then 20yrs later will say it was hazardous, too late so don't let the gas drilling companies tell you the chemicals are safe.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I have seen the windmills in Pa. near Carbondale two weeks ago. Just looks wierd, out of place like some futuristic world .As far as CNG stations go you have to be attached to a High pressure Natural gas system, There aren't many around compared to gas stations and not many fleet vehicles order CNG vehicles. I know a few in NYC installed by CON ED but they were for Dept of transportation vehicles. It was like a fad then some companies went back to gas vehicles. CNG will never replace gasoline ever.

You dont have to be attached to any natural gas system for a CNG filling station. They use storage tanks and high pressure pumps.

Nobody is saying CNG will replace gasoline. I see CNG Hondas driving around every day though. We also have fuel cell vehicles running around the area that run on hydrogen, and there are a few of those filling stations around too. Not many, but as the tech develops, the infrastrucre will be built to support it.

You do realize that NYC is not the end all be all of the universe right? Just because they do things one way down there, doesnt mean the rest of the state or country does things the same way.

[Dave]

You dont have to be attached to any natural gas system for a CNG filling station. They use storage tanks and high pressure pumps.

Nobody is saying CNG will replace gasoline. I see CNG Hondas driving around every day though. We also have fuel cell vehicles running around the area that run on hydrogen, and there are a few of those filling stations around too. Not many, but as the tech develops, the infrastrucre will be built to support it.

You do realize that NYC is not the end all be all of the universe right? Just because they do things one way down there, doesnt mean the rest of the state or country does things the same way.

There are less than 200 CNG stations in NY and only a hanful of hydrogen stations. So what's your point? Lets get serious the money is down state so where do you think the technology will start first? Where are the most coustomer Upstate or down state. The only problem is we have more stringent environmental restrictions than upstate.

[WNYBuckHunter]

My point is, the tech is newer than the gasoline system we are currently dependent upon. Like I said, as the tech grows, and becomes more affordable, the infrastructure will be built to support it.

As far as your assumption of where the tech will be developed, you are being ignorant. Do some simple Googling about GM's fuel cell research, and where it started and has been being developed. Its not in NYC, Ill tell you that much. NYC is not the center of the universe, you need to get out more my friend.

[Dave]

My point is, the tech is newer than the gasoline system we are currently dependent upon. Like I said, as the tech grows, and becomes more affordable, the infrastructure will be built to support it.

As far as your assumption of where the tech will be developed, you are being ignorant. Do some simple Googling about GM's fuel cell research, and where it started and has been being developed. Its not in NYC, Ill tell you that much. NYC is not the center of the universe, you need to get out more my friend.

It dosen't thak mush to rattle your cage and the insults fly. All anyone on this site has to do is disagree with you. My point is there is no demand and thus these cars are not being made in mass. Cng was mostly for companies with large fleet of vehicles that pull out of one location, also state and Dot vehicles not much acess for private vehicles. CNG, Electric, and fuel cells are was off in the future. Simply too expensive and on inferstructure . If you have to fill a CNG station from a compresses gas truck you don't need a CNG station.. Just shown there is no need for the infrestructure for such a small population of vehicles. The idea of a cng station is unlimited fuel on demand. If you have to truck it in you might as well stay with gas.

[WNYBuckHunter]

You arent rattling my cage, you are just playing like you know it all again. Anytime that anyone shows you are wrong about something, you take it as an insult. No surprise there.

[Dave]

You arent rattling my cage, you are just playing like you know it all again. Anytime that anyone shows you are wrong about something, you take it as an insult. No surprise there.

I think you would argue with a dead man. I don't know it all but I know quite a bit on this topic. I worked for a gas company for 37 years and personall installed two Cng stations for the DEPT of Transportation in NYC. What's your expertise in this area?

See you removed the part of your comment where you told me to take my head out of my ass...

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yes, I chose to reword my original comment 2 seconds after I posted it because I wasnt intending to be an a-hole about it. Whats your point?

Im not arguing with you Dave, Im pointing out that you may have worked on some things in the past, but you apparently dont know much of whats going on outside of NYC. My knowledge is based on what is going on and what I know and read about on the subject. I dont claim to be an expert, but I know enough to do a little reading and research before I talk about it.