Study: Whitetail Deer in Central New York - An alternative to Antler restriction

[burmjohn]

SteveB emailed me a few attachments to share.  Its a pretty well put together presentation about the alternative to antler restrictions, their way of the proper means of managing the deer herd.

If your agree or not, its an interesting read.  Thanks SteveB for sharing.

The files are attached to this thread, both a PDF and also a Power Point presentation.

whitetail2.pdf

[TheHunter]

Pretty interesting read.  I mean, if the research they did is genuine, it has a lot of merit.

[Fairgame]

3 point rule is what we have and is what we have to go with and it has made a difference.  The one buck rule past the ears I believe would be even better.  More doe tags where NEEDED not because people are not going to have the chance to harvest a buck for a year.  I liked what people are trying to accomplish.  Good read!!

[5.9cummins]

Im all for better management and have never liked the points thing. I used to have 3.5yr old 6 running the farm in Madison Co. 20"+ spread. He got thumped with a slug when he was 4.5 by the neighbor and just barley had 7 "score-able points". Dressed out a hair under 200lbs.

He jumped the string on me when he was 3.5 which resulted in a minor flesh wound. I knew it was the same deer the second year because of the scar. beautiful buck :'(

[nyantler]

Ok Guys.. check my past posts.. this is the plan I've been describing all along.. its the original QDM plan from 15 years ago.. and it just so happens that 7j,7f, and 7h are all the WMU's that I hunt.

[First-light]

1 buck rule, sure puts to rest who you are, meat hunter or trophy hunter. My brother-in-law hunts in Ohio and they have that rule.

[burmjohn]

The one buck rule would give others more of an opportunity to harvest something, I'd be all for it. 

[steve863]

I am completely against AR's, spread width, or any such nonsense but have always been for a one buck rule.  I would go further and implement a 2 deer rule.  You get one buck tag and one doe tag with your license and you can use them anywhere in the state you like.  If you get the 2 deer during bow season, you can't hunt any other season.  Extra doe tags could be given in areas where there is an abundance of them.  Simple solution, but I would like to see some of the trophy hunters agreeing to it?  There would be NO need for AR's or the other baloney, but I somehow doubt even this would be enough for some here??

[burmjohn]

Simple solution, but I would like to see some of the trophy hunters agreeing to it?  There would be NO need for AR's or the other baloney, but I somehow doubt even this would be enough for some here??

Wait, so your saying there is a need for AR and if it was 1 buck 1 doe there would be no need for AR?   (just pulling your chain)

But in all seriousness, those, like me, who are for AR (those who I know) are far from Trophy hunters.  I just want to see some bigger deer, and give the young-ins (or at least a majority of those) a chance to get bigger.

[steve863]

Simple solution, but I would like to see some of the trophy hunters agreeing to it?  There would be NO need for AR's or the other baloney, but I somehow doubt even this would be enough for some here??

Wait, so your saying there is a need for AR and if it was 1 buck 1 doe there would be no need for AR?   (just pulling your chain)

But in all seriousness, those, like me, who are for AR (those who I know) are far from Trophy hunters.  I just want to see some bigger deer, and give the young-ins (or at least a majority of those) a chance to get bigger.

Actually there is absolutely NO need for AR's under the scenario I suggested OR the system we currently have in place.  The people who want AR's are pushing them like they are somehow benefitting the herd when in truth all they might do is give bucks a chance to grow a little bigger that will in turn give some hunters an ego boost when they shoot them!  That is ALL that AR's do.  Biologically they do nothing to a deer herd and the DEC and others have stated that. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I don't know...I just went throught the slides and I still have a proble with some of this stuff. Comes across as a sales pitch and let me ry these numbers and tell me what you think.

20 folks put this proposal together based on 20,000 acres....1,000 acres per person. While I hate to sound like a conspiracy nut but this sure smells of big bucks($$$$$ not deer...lol) hunting draw like in the mid west states. No while a 1000 acres sounds like a lot of land...their managed deer sure can easily stray off their property and are getting taken. SO it has to make me question their motives.

They pushed the following points.....less disease transmittion...less over browsing ----if the DEC is managing the herd size for a number per acre how is changing the ratio going to change any of these? I remember bio 101 and the envirinmental bucket theory applies....will only hold so much....If they want 10,000 deer in an area...they will manage to that number...just more bucks.

No this crap about decreased car accidents. Let me say this will have the opposite effect. Those increased number of bucks are not college frat boys going home from the bar and going to bed if they don't get lucky.....they will be running like crazy to find a lady friend...oh but there arent any...once they hook up with one...all done....remember to 1 to one ratio....( not 100% accurate ...I know the older more mature will be chasing off the younger bucks)....and chasing off a lot more of them since the competition for available does will be much higher....So...all those points the AR folks made about it being an easier less extended rut for the bucks and less stressful...losing less body fat to go into the winter... I think it may be the opposite and I bet the number of car wrecks will go through the roof...no pun intended.

[burmjohn]

Ok, I was joking, but...  Its your opinion, not fact, that biologically they do nothing for the herd and your opinion that all that AR's do is boost an ego.  There are plenty of studies that show the contrary. 

[nyslowhand]

You can dress this up anyway you want - AR, QDM, herd management, bigger & healthier deer, mature bucks, ..

They all eventually produce more trophy class bucks for the hunter.

The original listing's attachment stated a benifit of the plan was more available record book bucks!

Whitetails have survived in nature for millenniums, until humans almost eradicated them.

Why not allow them to be as they were without our interference?

Believe it or not, none of us have the credentials to play God.

[steve863]

Whitetails have survived in nature for millenniums, until humans almost eradicated them.

Why not allow them to be as they were without our interference?

Believe it or not, none of us have the credentials to play God.

OK, so why don't you propose that we stop hunting them altogether??  Wouldn't that eliminate man's interference??  I would bet any money that you fellas would be the first to sqwalk at such an idea.  If we want to get down to the least interference why don't we simply hunt them for the same reason the cave man did, and that was for food only without regards to how old the animal was?  I somehow doubt the caveman cared too much about B&C or P&Y measurements of the bucks they killed, don't you??

[steve863]

Sorry nyslowhand, I thought it was the other guy with ny in his name that was making this statement.  My mistake.  I sort of couldn't believe he would be making such a statement with everything he has said in the past. 

[Fantail]

Hey, if this is a QDM thread, then why isn't it in the QDM section?  >

Getting kind of sick of all the AR posts around here trying to blow smoke up my @ss.

[nyantler]

you guys are hopeless.. even when you have everything explained to you and have all the data in front of you.. you don't believe it... nor will you listen to it... everything is not a conspiracy fellas. Show me one bit of research evidence that proves that QDM model doesn't work. And i'm not getting the whole trophy hunting is bad thing you guys like to put out there. Me hunting big bucks has done nothing to hurt anything that has to do with hunting. In fact it has given all you small buck killers more small bucks to kill.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Hopeless? why is it always a response like that. If you want a debate then address my comments. They seem very realistic from a pure logic standpoint. When I lok at a program outlined before me and see blatent facts that are obviously written to achieve a certain emotinal response and are NOT based in science...kinda make me question the study as a whole.

Soooo hw was I wrong?

[nyslowhand]

Agree with you Culvercreek, lot of double talk and misleading plan benefits.

In fact I had started a response VERY similiar to yours, but trashed it.

[nyantler]

You ARE hopeless Culver.. your comments are not realistic and certainly NOT from a logical standpoint... for your information .. all of the data is based on research and fact... and its just a small portion of the overall research done across the country on QDM... all with the same result... like i said before, it wouldn't matter if it was fact or not.. you would disagree with it simply because you don't like it. Just say it Culver .. you don't like it no matter how much sense it makes.. you can do it.

[nyantler]

And yes Culver they are Blatent facts... the key word there would be facts

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I don't like it....I practice it but won't push it on others...never will.

No why are you always saying you you answer questions but NEVER do. If my conclusions on the article are not right tell me.....don't just drink the koolaid NY...think about it and respond...Is logic and debate that difficult......Or are you just out for what you want and what make the experience better for you...drop the better for the herd BS and admit it...come one...admit it...you are out for YOU!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

nope ...meant fabrications...not facts...now have at the respone...if you can

[nyslowhand]

NYantler, don't tell the other members of this forum that you don't have an agenda to promote the hunting of trophy bucks and publish the details on your website!

Don't try to shove what may be good or profitable for you down the throats of hunters everywhere by sugar coating trophy hunting.

I have to assume you helped with the alternate plan. If not it sure fills your niche, doesn't it?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I still would not agree but would have more respect for a guy that said...I make money on big bucks...i will guide for big bucks...or I want to lease my property for big buck hunting....but to push BS as fact...that I no respect for and only contempt....kinda feels like dealing with a politician...