Study: Whitetail Deer in Central New York - An alternative to Antler restriction

[nyantler]

Its good hearing other ideas ... Sometimes I really don't think that some hunters would really care about deer if they couldn't hunt them... they don't take the time to educate themselves on whats really going on... I respect an opposite opinion as long as the guy has a little idea about whats being talked about. I guess I'm a bit hardcore about the management thing because I've been doing it so long.

[Brushbuster]

Agross,

We hunted Pa for 30 years and my friends that still hunt they say it has been a DISASTER because the real program is to decimate the herd...which they have done admirably well.

They are seeing more coyotes than deer on opening day and this is in Potter and Tioga county.

[nyantler]

Wow.. you really believe that any conservation authority would want to decimate the deer population in their state.. That is completely nuts!

[Brushbuster]

Hey Joe,

Read and weep - and the Pa Game Commission is making things worse and worse.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/steelton-pa/T5G5KVGKH2TT4P7EM

[nyantler]

So what did that have to do with them wanting to decimate the herd?

[Brushbuster]

Joe,

If you dont want to read the comments, I certainly am not going to do it for you.

To the other readers: Note that the big problem is the doe hunting that is part of every "AR" program. 

[nyantler]

I read all your comments and I still don't see why the PA conservation ppl want to decimate the herd.. thats ridiculous.

[nyantler]

The Pennsylvania Game Commission  reported that hunters harvested an estimated 308,920 deer in the state's 2009-10 seasons, which is an eight percent decline from the previous seasons' harvest of 335,850.    Hunters took 108,330 antlered deer in the 2009-10 seasons, down 11 percent from the previous license year's harvest of 122,410, but similar to the 2007-08 harvest of 109,200.  Also, hunters harvested 200,590 antlerless deer in 2009-10, which is a six percent decline from the 213,440 antlerless deer taken in 2008-09. The 2007-08 antlerless deer harvest was 213,870.

Where is the decimation????

[Brushbuster]

Hey everyone:

The article title is "Pa. deer harvest drops to lowest level since 1987"  and Joe wants to know where does it mention anything about herd decimation.

Joe, how can you cut a track on a big buck and kill it but not find the glaring truth in this article.

Excessive doe hunting under the guise of AR has made for record poor hunting in Pa - the worst in 25 years.  This is the game commission's fault and no one elses.

They do it because the sale of doe permits means MONEY.

[burmjohn]

Ok so they did it for the money, and you blame it on AR?  AR specifically means antler restrictions, it has nothing to do with doe permits.

[Brushbuster]

"AR specifically means antler restrictions, it has nothing to do with doe permits. "

Well then how come every game commission that pushes AR also pushes doe permits.

Why dont we have AR without doe hunting?

[burmjohn]

Doe permits were there before AR in NY.  Doe permits are used to help manage the herd size.  If PA decided o issue to many doe permits that has nothing to do with AR.  The same goes for NY for that matter, they manage the doe permits by WMU as they see fit, nothing to do with AR.

[Brushbuster]

"Doe permits are used to help manage the herd size."

You conveniently forget that it is also a huge revenue source for govt agencies that are suffering from budget cutbacks.

[burmjohn]

No.  Again, nothing to do with your original point that its because of "AR".

[Brushbuster]

Wow I must be wrong then.

So then tell me - how about a list of all the states that do AR without doe hunting?

Tell me when you are done digging that hole.

[burmjohn]

Correct, your wrong. Thanks for pointing that out.

Doe hunting existed in NY before AR's... Whats your point?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

If they are managing a herd to a specific size...and pass AR that increases the number of bucks...would it stand to reason they would initially issue more doe tags?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Wow I must be wrong then.

So then tell me - how about a list of all the states that do AR without doe hunting?

Tell me when you are done digging that hole.

First, show a state that does not allow doe hunting.  :

Guys, just realize that Brushbuster is extremely misinformed and on a crusade to end the shooting of does.  ;D

[nyantler]

I still don't see how the herd is decimated by the PA game commission...decimated would mean there are no deer left. How could there be no deer left when PA didn't even kill as many deer last year as in years past... And you still haven't answered the question of why the PA game commission would want to decimate the deer herd.. seeems like that would really hurt the hunting revenue... what you're saying is ridiculous

[DanceswithSkunks]

"They do it because the sale of doe permits means MONEY."

$3 of the doe tag is eramarked by law to go towards habitat improvement. The county treasurer is getting $1 per tag they process. They're losing money processing doe tags. That leaves $2 for the PGC general fund. The only people making any money is the company that print the tags.

   

[DanceswithSkunks]

"AR specifically means antler restrictions, it has nothing to do with doe permits. "

Well then how come every game commission that pushes AR also pushes doe permits.

Why dont we have AR without doe hunting?

Pennsylvania has been selling doe licenses for over 50 years. AR started eight years ago. Game commissions sell doe permits to reduce or stabilize the entire deer herd. That's their number one job when it comes to deer mangement. AR in PA is set up to move more deer into the next age class and establish an age structure and B/D ratio that resembles what nature intended. Why would they save deer from being killed if their intention was to "decimate" the herd? If your going to save 50,000 buck you'll need to harvest an additional 50,000 doe to reduce or stabilize the overall population. AR is not an excuse to kill more doe. If they wanted more deer dead they would have permitted you to blast the first buck with bone sticking out of his head and issued more doe tags.

Coyotes and bear have always been in PA. I have PGC Game news issues from the 40's with articles and pictures of coyotes that were killed and trapped.

Click on the pic below for video.

 

[Geno C]

"Doe permits are used to help manage the herd size."

You conveniently forget that it is also a huge revenue source for govt agencies that are suffering from budget cutbacks.

up until recently (2-3 year or so) there was no revenue from a dmp tag...

[burmjohn]

"Doe permits are used to help manage the herd size."

You conveniently forget that it is also a huge revenue source for govt agencies that are suffering from budget cutbacks.

up until recently (2-3 year or so) there was no revenue from a dmp tag...

Plus as a lifetime license holder, I'll never have to pay for a DMP.

[steve863]

Wow, that is a very informative video!  That pretty much explains the big oil drum that is in the middle of the woods on the property I hunt then.  It must have been a mountain lion drop site!!  LOL

[Geno C]

"Doe permits are used to help manage the herd size."

You conveniently forget that it is also a huge revenue source for govt agencies that are suffering from budget cutbacks.

up until recently (2-3 year or so) there was no revenue from a dmp tag...

Plus as a lifetime license holder, I'll never have to pay for a DMP.

havnt really been following this thread in awhile but from the looks of it i didint miss much lol.

i think it was this year and last years season that required the fee of a DMP correct? migfht have been the season before that as well. i forget...