Expanded AR's Who is not excited?

[SteveB]

It is a fact that only 45% report their harvest in the southern zone. Very poor. For anyone that doesn’t know we have mandatory legally required reporting in NY.

Not trying to argue but want to understand how the following could be even remotely accurate if the 45% reporting rate is true (which I feel may be low)? Especially given they take it to the .00 %.

The harvest was made up of 55.56% yearling bucks in 08, 52.32% yearling bucks in 2009 and 51.61% yearling bucks in 2010.

I report everything and have never been asked age - which without jawbone aging is only a guess.

[burmjohn]

Steve I think they might base the age on an average of what the DEC samples. I always swing by the local butcher on opening week to see what he has in the freezer. The DEC hangs out there pretty much the whole season visiting a few times a week so they can get a chance to sample / inspect age and take for the area's around, especially since the check stations are pretty much gone.

[nyantler]

Not trying to argue but want to understand how the following could be even remotely accurate if the 45% reporting rate is true (which I feel may be low)? Especially given they take it to the .00 %.

I report everything and have never been asked age - which without jawbone aging is only a guess.

Yeah .. seems like it would be nothing more than a guess without actually seeing the bucks. Visually examining bucks wouldn't be hard for yearlings.. but the numbers given for other age groups would be far more difficult without examining the jawbone. makes ya wonder about the numbers and their acurracy.

[pryz366]

i hunt in 4g and the new ar's piss me off i hunt for the meat and we dont get alot of big bucks ussually every few yrs get one and that to me is the hunt i dont wanna water down hunting by seeing more bigger bucks takes the value out of all the hard work i put in scouting and setting up cause i know that the nice buck i shot was worked hard at with alot of time and hard work

[burmjohn]

i hunt in 4g and the new ar's piss me off i hunt for the meat and we dont get alot of big bucks ussually every few yrs get one and that to me is the hunt i dont wanna water down hunting by seeing more bigger bucks takes the value out of all the hard work i put in scouting and setting up cause i know that the nice buck i shot was worked hard at with alot of time and hard work

Your bigger bucks are still going to be elusive, time and scouting is needed no matter the case.

[SteveB]

John - I see where they can make a guess that way. I know a couple processors around here, and while the DEC does do checks, they spend little time with the aging.

Joe - that's what I wonder too. I am amazed at the number of hunters I know around me that feel that a 6pt or better has to be an older deer. In spite of the study a few years back showing that nearly 60% of our 1.5's are 6pt or better.

[WNYBuckHunter]

It is a fact that only 45% report their harvest in the southern zone. Very poor. For anyone that doesn’t know we have mandatory legally required reporting in NY.

Yes, its the law to report, but out of all the people that dont call in their tags, how many really get caught? If it was mandatory to report kill or no kill, then you would have actual repercussions to consider before you just dont bother calling that deer in. It wouldnt be fool proof and make things 100% accurate, but id be willing to bet money that it improved the system drastically.

[pryz366]

i guess what im saying is that even that doe or spiker is still a trophy to me im proud of any buck that i get or deer for that fact

[nyantler]

i hunt in 4g and the new ar's piss me off i hunt for the meat and we dont get alot of big bucks ussually every few yrs get one and that to me is the hunt i dont wanna water down hunting by seeing more bigger bucks takes the value out of all the hard work i put in scouting and setting up cause i know that the nice buck i shot was worked hard at with alot of time and hard work

So you'd rather continue hunting an area that rarely produces bucks in older age classes instead of participating in a program designed to help balance out the age classes? I have trouble understanding the argument that there are very few bigger bucks in my area so I am forced to shoot yearlings to get meat... yet you are against doing anything that would improve that situation. At least the "I enjoy shooting young bucks" argument is more logical.

[burmjohn]

i guess what im saying is that even that doe or spiker is still a trophy to me im proud of any buck that i get or deer for that fact

But after 1 year instead of a 1.5 you could have that same number of deer as 2.5's with more meat. Granted those 2.5's might not be as easy to kill as the 1.5's but you already put the time in to scout and hunt so that shouldn't be an issue anyways.

[nyantler]

i guess what im saying is that even that doe or spiker is still a trophy to me im proud of any buck that i get or deer for that fact

Although I understand the whole "any deer is a trophy to me" concept... I don't understand why hunters are reluctant to at least examine and learn more about the why age class structure is important to deer managment. Even if you take away the "more big bucks to kill" aspect of it. It just shows me how little some hunters really care about conservation... even though they talk a good game.

Edited July 15, 2012 by nyantler

[pryz366]

if i shoot yearling buck my season is over if i shoot a monster buck my season is over so it doesnt matter to me my deer is my trophy. so y not leave it to hunters preferance and fyi that spike horn always tastes better then that older buck

[nyantler]

if i shoot yearling buck my season is over if i shoot a monster buck my season is over so it doesnt matter to me my deer is my trophy. so y not leave it to hunters preferance and fyi that spike horn always tastes better then that older buck

The reason it matters is because conservation efforts are not dependant on a hunters freezers or trophy preference... it is dependent on what is better for conservation. The hunter is just a resource to aid in the conservation effort.

[pryz366]

dont get me wrong im all for any progress made to help the sport but by ur idealogy we are gonna let every young buck make it to breed. i myself feel the strongest fittest and smartest deer breeding makes more sense. wouldnt that spiker that survived a season on its own the smarter and stronger buck and that deers offspring will have hopefully same genetics. just my opinion i maybe right maybe wrong. and another thing what about the first yr hunter who isnt eligible to shoot the spiker we need ppl involved in hunting not discouraged because he sees all spikers and cant shoot one. we r losing ppl why do we wanna lose more.

[burmjohn]

For the first year hunter, if AR's were in place already, there would be 2.5's running around rather then those spikers.

Regarding the smartest deer, 1.5's are pretty much all still ignorant and learning.

[pryz366]

ok those 2.5's are great but i know ppl who have been hunting for yrs without seeing a single buck to shoot. i wanna hear why does the deers age make a diff. or give me some info to read pls id like to hear all the info. on antler restrictions and how the age of a deer helps.

[pryz366]

and regaurding the ignorant and stupid deer arent they all when the rut hits only one thing on there mind lol

[growalot]

I have trouble understanding the argument that there are very few bigger bucks in my area so I am forced to shoot yearlings to get meat...

Man I don't...with the comments made to ppl who are fine with just going out and HUNTING...no wonder human instinct kicks in and vague excuses pop up...who wants to get stung by another hunters not so subtle insults? Why can't other hunters worry about their own legal hunts and let it go...and where are all these no big buck areas? ...because I check every other week and the big bucks I'm seeing in the NYODN are from every single area of the state....

[pryz366]

ok just a question if ar's are so great why doesnt dec just make it happen y do they need our support if it is a huge benefit then they would just do it right or wrong? to me sounds like trophy hunter propaganda. but like i said show me info why it is so great

[Four Season Whitetail's]

ok just a question if ar's are so great why doesnt dec just make it happen y do they need our support if it is a huge benefit then they would just do it right or wrong? to me sounds like trophy hunter propaganda. but like i said show me info why it is so great

Dont fool yourself..DEC does not need our support. They do that just to make it look like it matters. You will see AR statewide in a couple years!!!

[pryz366]

im done on this matter so if any of u can give me recipe for antlers id appreciate it or even tag stew since we will have to pass on spikers thanks for them recipes

[Meat Hunter]

Yes, its the law to report, but out of all the people that dont call in their tags, how many really get caught? If it was mandatory to report kill or no kill, then you would have actual repercussions to consider before you just dont bother calling that deer in. It wouldnt be fool proof and make things 100% accurate, but id be willing to bet money that it improved the system drastically.

Agreed

[nyantler]

dont get me wrong im all for any progress made to help the sport but by ur idealogy we are gonna let every young buck make it to breed. i myself feel the strongest fittest and smartest deer breeding makes more sense. wouldnt that spiker that survived a season on its own the smarter and stronger buck and that deers offspring will have hopefully same genetics. just my opinion i maybe right maybe wrong. and another thing what about the first yr hunter who isnt eligible to shoot the spiker we need ppl involved in hunting not discouraged because he sees all spikers and cant shoot one. we r losing ppl why do we wanna lose more.

Actually it doesn't work that way... you will be creating more older bucks.. thereby creating more competition for breeding rights and creating a pecking order where the older more dominant bucks will be doing most of the breeding. As for the spike that survives to get a year older.. that has little to do with how smart he is and more to do with dumb luck. In a good AR program the new hunter will not have the need to kill a young buck because he will have much more access to older bucks because of the better age diversity... an advantage that us older hunters never experienced in our childhood with the old "shoot anything" system.

[nyantler]

im done on this matter so if any of u can give me recipe for antlers id appreciate it or even tag stew since we will have to pass on spikers thanks for them recipes

How about the recipe for older buck stew... it's the same as younger buck stew with a bigger set of antler on the wall..lol Doe stew would still be okay too.

[nyantler]

ok just a question if ar's are so great why doesnt dec just make it happen y do they need our support if it is a huge benefit then they would just do it right or wrong? to me sounds like trophy hunter propaganda. but like i said show me info why it is so great

If you have been paying attention you already have the info you are requesting. I think it would serve you far better though to educate yourself better on the subject so you won't have to ask someone else. You might also learn that its the mandate part that you don't like not the concept of AR itself.