Mountain Lion in NY

[SteveB]

As a researcher (whatever that means) you must be aware of the fact that eye witness testimony is often among the most unreliable evidence presented in a trial. It's not about lying, but rather people just don't always interpret what they are seeing correcting. Do some "researching" and find some of the numerous studies/experiments where groups where tested on what they saw after being exposed to a set up incident.

In states where there are known inhabited populations of mt lions, things like tracks, scat, game pics and other physical proof can be found quite regularly. However actual sightings tend to be fairly uncommon. In NY where there are no known lions living, there is never any physical evidence, but we have far more reported "sightings" than states with known populations - and a lg number of these "sightings" are of black ones which do not and have not ever existed.

Hence my skepticism - show me real proof or it didn't happen.

[WNYBuckHunter]

The oddest thing about these threads is the presumption by so many people that others are motivated to lie about seeing a mountain lion is worth a second of time. Who would lie and why? What possible motive would they have. Oh, or are you one of those who believes the public is just ever so confusing and so they hallucinate? I saw a dead mountain lion on the side of the highway on I-81 in Nov 2011. I will never foget it. I have no reason to lie. I am a researcher. I am used to recording observations. I have no reason to lie. I'm not claiming I found a pot of gold and someone took it-so I want it back. I'm not claiming that somebody else hit my car and ran (perhaps to avoid rise in car insurance). There are loads of things that people have reason to lie about but I can't think of anything gained by lying about whether or not you saw a mountain lion in the woods. Nowadays you don't hear people accusing others of lying in Missouri and the DEC is notably restrained there now. Why? Because the cameras mounted in the woods(ostensibly to track deer) are recording images of mountain lions. The officials were also quiet in CT and Lake George. After the cat was killed in CT, I called the officials in Lake George who had, up to that point, denied the Lake George sightings. If you have ever been to Lake George you know the people there are not prone to exaggeration or wild imagination. If they were, it would be the destination as a tourist site instead of being economically depressed. No, by and large, they are generally down to earth sensible people. So, after the Ct slaughter of the ghost mountain lion, the officials near Lake George admitted that they had collected evidence of a mountain but had not analyzed it. Instead, they denied the sightings without letting the public know that they had analyzable data but had failed to bother. Had the cat not been hit in CT, they never would have analyzed the data-something they admitted to me (too much backlog). Once they had denied the sightings in Lake George and had the dead mountain lion from CT, they admitted a mountain lion had traveled through Lake George. Notice in their quotes, however, they have failed to be explicit. The cat was similar to the one killed in CT but was it the same cat? They have the material to analyze and probably have the answer but they have not answered that question. My guess-no. They were not the same cat. They were both similar to ones the have been seen in the Dakotas but they were not the same cat. In sum, I don't think there is a compelling reason for the lay public to lie about sightings nor is everyone confused about the differences between mountain lions and bob cats.

The only people reliably found to be deceptive are the officials paid for by state or federal tax dollars.

Hang on, you forgot the part where you admit to not being adept at identifying animals. You already posted this same basic load of drivel in this same thread. Mind slipping or something?

[Water Rat]

Lionsandtigers ,

I applaud your conviction. Unfortunately, you will never be able to convince the "experts" on this forum.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Then prove the "experts" wrong. Its a pretty simple concept, and would be easy to do if they were, in fact, here.

[BizCT]

There is no point in mountain lion discussions on forums in NY unless you got a real picture. Someone on a fishing forum I'm a member of posted of pic of a lion on a deer kill taken by trail camera in dutchess county. It took less than 3 minutes to find the same pic on Texas hunting forums, etc.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[noodle one]

As a researcher (whatever that means) you must be aware of the fact that eye witness testimony is often among the most unreliable evidence presented in a trial. It's not about lying, but rather people just don't always interpret what they are seeing correcting. Do some "researching" and find some of the numerous studies/experiments where groups where tested on what they saw after being exposed to a set up incident.

In states where there are known inhabited populations of mt lions, things like tracks, scat, game pics and other physical proof can be found quite regularly. However actual sightings tend to be fairly uncommon. In NY where there are no known lions living, there is never any physical evidence, but we have far more reported "sightings" than states with known populations - and a lg number of these "sightings" are of black ones which do not and have not ever existed.

Hence my skepticism - show me real proof or it didn't happen.

My son lives in California and in an area that is known to have mountain lions. I have been going out to visit for the pass six years now and have never seem a mountain lion. We go steelhead fishing in areas that are posted with signs telling people that they are in mountain lion area. Two hundred yards from my son's home there is a sign stateing about mountain lions in the area. I asked my son if he had ever seem one or any sign of one. He told me that he has never seem one or any sign of one and he fishes those mountain streams year round and yes he also is a hunter.and has taken many big game through-out the western states and knows what to look for..

I also know what a mountain lion looks like and I saw one near Deposit 5 years ago. i WAS ONLY 30 YARDS FROM IT SO i KNOW THERE ARE SOME IN NEW YORK STATE

[SteveB]

But as with every siting in NY, you can offer nothing but a notoriously unreliable eye witness statement.

Again - no proof.

[Water Rat]

What makes him an "unreliable eye witness" ?

[noodle one]

But as with every siting in NY, you can offer nothing but a notoriously unreliable eye witness statement.

Again - no proof.

Yes Stevey B , there is a real santa claus. ask any 5 year old and tell them they are wrong.

[SteveB]

Yes Stevey B , there is a real santa claus. ask any 5 year old and tell them they are wrong.

Name calling now?

Common tactic when one has no real point to make.

Thanks for being clear.

[Sogaard]

What makes him an "unreliable eye witness" ?

He's human.

[SteveB]

What makes him an "unreliable eye witness" ?

This:

He's human.

Lionsandtigers ,

I applaud your conviction. Unfortunately, you will never be able to convince the "experts" on this forum.

No experts here - just realists.

All you have to do to convince any of us is post some proof.

When can we expect it?

[Water Rat]

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything....................but your proof was hit by a car in Connecticut last year.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything....................but your proof was hit by a car in Connecticut last year.

That cat was well documented, and proven to have wandered from out west, through quite a few states other than NY. It was not proof of any resident or common populations of them in this state or anywhere in the Northeastern US.

[Water Rat]

So I guess your saying that was the only mountain lion that has "wandered" in from out west and that there are no others in the state ? Do you think there could be others that are just passing through and not necessarily residents ? You don't think there could be ONE mountain lion anywhere in the Northeastern US right now ? I'm only asking because you have a tendency to ridicule others who have claimed to have seen one.

[SteveB]

How many need to wander in to account for more "sightings" here than states where they even have seasons?

Where do the black ones come from that are claimed in a big number of the "sightings"?

Show some proof and silence the doubters.

Edited January 14, 2013 by SteveB

[Water Rat]

Are you confusing black panthers with mountain lions ?

[cwhite]

http://bigcatrescue.org/mountain-lion-filmed-loose-in-ny/

I have seen this video. I have also seen a couple mountain lions in AZ when I worked down there and know what they look like. The cat recorded on the camera was the real deal. This was about 6-7 year ago, but if I can locate the actual video and convert it to be able to post it I will do so. I do not believe there to be a breeding poplutation of mountain lions living in NYS but do believe, as the CT lion showed, there are isolated incidents that occur such as pets being released, wandering males, etc... that pass through the area from time to very infrequent time.

[WNYBuckHunter]

So I guess your saying that was the only mountain lion that has "wandered" in from out west and that there are no others in the state ? Do you think there could be others that are just passing through and not necessarily residents ? You don't think there could be ONE mountain lion anywhere in the Northeastern US right now ? I'm only asking because you have a tendency to ridicule others who have claimed to have seen one.

Im not saying the possibility of a cat that has escaped or been let loose from captivity is out there, or that maybe one has wandered through before. Im saying that it is just not likely. The cat that actually did wander through was well documented, with verifiable proof of it being in the areas in which it passed. If there were others out there, you would find the same type of evidence, as in prints, scat, trailcam pics, etc. There are constant claims but nothing ever ever ever comes out as far as evidence goes, its always a trailcam pic someone grabs from out west.

BTW, i dont ridicule anyone, but I will make some wiseass remarks when the same person that admits they dont know how to wildlife posts the same story twice in the same thread. If you cant handle some wise remarks, I dont know what to tell you. Like Ive said many times, put up some verifiable proof of the claims that they are here, and I will admit that Im wrong.

[SteveB]

Are you confusing black panthers with mountain lions ?

Not at all.

Just pointing out that a large % of the "sightings" in NY are for black panthers/ml/ cougars whatever.

Now answer the questions.

[Water Rat]

I have no idea where the black ones come from that you claim make up a large percentage of sightings...............but their not mountain lions.

[josephmrtn]

my buddy swears that he saw a black mountain lion 40 ft away this past fall and some of our neigbors have told us they saw it

[SteveB]

I have no idea where the black ones come from that you claim make up a large percentage of sightings...............but their not mountain lions.

See the post above this one.

Once again - try the question:

"How many need to wander in to account for more "sightings" here than states where they even have seasons?"

[Water Rat]

I don't know how many need to wander in......but if there was one, why couldn't there be more?

[Pygmy]

Exactly what species are these "black panthers" that you mention...?

I have been somewhat of a student of worldwide animal biology over the years, not as a PHD, but as a person who is interested in such things...

I never saw any documentation of a "black panther" unless you are talking about those black homo sapiens whose organization bears that name.

The only black feline I ever have seen documented is a black phase of the jaquar, which exists in South and Central America, and occasionally gets as far north as southern Arizona in North America..

Tell us about these "black panthers" that supposedly exist in North America, especially as far north as New York..

Pictures or any biological evidence would be helpfull...

Please educate me.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Pygmy