Pure Rediculousness

[BizCT]

I'm of the same opinion that 4 Season is when it comes to hunting. If you want to go after a lion with dogs have at it. I may even consider that hunt someday too. But tearing up the guy that goes into a several thousand acre hunting preserve is purely hypocritical. In both cases the animals stand very little chance.

So you think a Lion penned in a fence is just as difficult to kill as a lion killed in the southern arizona mountains? haha, you're a joke.

Go on a dry-ground hunt in Arizona for a Mature Tom, and then come talk to me. I'm done responding. You the type of guy who sees someone with a Billy Goat and says "oh that was an easy hunt".

I should have taken before & after pics with respect to my 2 trips to Arizona. Nobody comes back from a high-fence reserve with any wear and tear on their body.

I'm done responding to this nonsense. I could care less about you "walking" the mountains at your snail pace, try running as fast as you can without falling off a cliff trying to keep up with dogs.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I lived and worked in AZ for 7 years. My job had me humping the mountains you are talking about everyday. Only difference, I was alone in the dark with a flashlight on 18-20 mile walks at times. Because of my work and time spent in the middle of no where, I was frequently consulted with by a local outfitter, mostly asking about muley's and coues but also the occasional question about cats and pronghorn. He would ask me because he knew I was a hunter and paid attention to the wildlife. I tell you this so you know that I understand the hunt you went on and know the exaggerations you are making.

I'm of the same opinion that 4 Season is when it comes to hunting. If you want to go after a lion with dogs have at it. I may even consider that hunt someday too. But tearing up the guy that goes into a several thousand acre hunting preserve is purely hypocritical. In both cases the animals stand very little chance.

Basically my opinion on a fenced hunt is shooting pens suck. Several thousand acre preserves are a different animal. Yeah they can't leave the preserve like they can your 200 acre hunting lease. Chances are no matter how much pressure they get the deer on your 200 acre lease aren't going to move thousands of acres away.

So now we are throwing a lease property intot he same bucket as a fenced preserve...lol Can't wait to see where this goes.

[arrow nocker]

being fit and fast chasing dogs doesn't change the fact you are using dogs.It takes the fair chase out of the equation.The dogs are doing the hunting.You are just chasing the dogs.What you are saying is that if you are too old to run on top of cliffs and wan't to hunt behind a fence you are better than the other older non fit guy that can't run fast chasing dogs across a mountain top?

[BizCT]

The fence prevents the animal from getting away. Dogs don't. People do deer drives (I don't), no difference than working with dogs as opposed to other humans.

Like I said, I'm done responding.

[Five Seasons]

listen I DON'T hunt high fence...I hunt fair chase just like you...however I don't care if someone else does, if they have money buy a gun kill a big buck and call it hunting....good for them....

i agree with you mostly, but the only minor issue i have with the cadged deer hunts are that the pics get circulated and by the time they've been emailed or texted 5 or 6 times the story gets foggy and people start envying some hunter that doesn't deserve. Again this is a minor issue I have but it bugs me a little.

this is a little off topic and no, whitetails are not endangered but it got me thinking:

any of you guys see this story on 60 minutes over the summer? is it wrong? some of them would be extinct without the preserve. But the funds to keep the area up are raised by hunters paying to hunt them.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57368000/can-hunting-endangered-animals-save-the-species/

Edited December 10, 2012 by Belo

[WNYBuckHunter]

The fence prevents the animal from getting away. Dogs don't. People do deer drives (I don't), no difference than working with dogs as opposed to other humans.

Like I said, I'm done responding.

If youre comparing a deer drive to hunting with dogs, then its completely obvious you have never participated in a drive lol.

[BizCT]

In both instances, the assistance of others is used. Humans are smarter than dogs.

I dont believe either instances should be considered equal to hunting penned in animals.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

. Humans are smarter than dogs.

You have been on her wayyyyyyyyyyyyy long enought to know that isn't true...lol

[tughillhunter]

i dont know..... my dog is smart enough to stay inside when its cold, and i sit on the ice for 10 hours and not catch anything. maybe im just dumb. lol.

[PostedBoys Gallego]

I seen 3 bucks 150+ killed this year by guys who have no idea what there doing..... that pisses me off

You should let that go, otherwise you are going to have a bad time every season. That's hunting. Anybody can be fortunate enough to be at the right spot at the right time. Just enjoy your hunt no matter the results. Have a great time out there and appreciate the fact that you can be out there.

In my opinion, the problem lies in the culture of counting inches. Counting inches of bone is what is diminishing the hunting tradition and turning it into a sport of numbers. Everyone should just be grateful and happy for what they harvest because as you all know, walking into the woods and doing it all yourself is never easy. Some years you might get a nice buck. Others you might get a nice Doe. Others you might get a fawn, and others you might get nothing. Just enjoy the tradition and stop counting meaningless inches. Deer no longer are respected as deer. They are now simply called 140's, 150's, 200's, etc...

To me its not about jealousy over how many inches another person gets, either with tons of money or on his own. You just have to appreciate every day in the woods no matter the outcome. It will destress you and make the act of hunting much more enjoyable.

It is good to be concerned about these shows and the businesses supporting them. They are the reason anti hunters have so much ammo against the hunting tradition. One of the most repeated anti hunter remarks is trophy shooting. That is what these shows represent.

[Marcygirl]

When I was a kid people hunted to feed there family's in most cases. Family is from deep in adk, it was a tradition, friends get together, hunt, tell stories ect u get the picture, it was looked down on to hunt in southern zone(easy pickings), things change, times sure have changed, it is sad that a lot of people are just thinking about things in inches, deer are challenging period, think that is what keeps a lot of us intrested, I try to keep it me vs ......... Whatever I am hunting, hopefully I can show my kids the tradition of hunting, the older I get the more it is about the hunt not just the kill or how big ect, wouldn't try to impose my two cents on anyone whatever my belief all I know is what hunting is and means to me and that's all that counts whatever it may be, never tell anyone how to raise their kids and don't tell anyone the way they should hunt

[WNYBuckHunter]

In both instances, the assistance of others is used. Humans are smarter than dogs.

I dont believe either instances should be considered equal to hunting penned in animals.

Humans may be smarter (well, some of them at least lol), but they do not have the dogs sense of smell, nor can they easily get into the tight places a dog can, or run through the woods or brush like a dog can. Comparing dog hunting to the average deer drive is apples and oranges.

[BizCT]

You are just recruiting the wrong guys for deer drives. You need a healthy combination of marathon runners, world's strongest men, tree climbers, etc.

[WNYBuckHunter]

LOL, you might be right

[Five Seasons]

When I was a kid people hunted to feed there family's in most cases. Family is from deep in adk, it was a tradition, friends get together, hunt, tell stories ect u get the picture, it was looked down on to hunt in southern zone(easy pickings), things change, times sure have changed, it is sad that a lot of people are just thinking about things in inches, deer are challenging period, think that is what keeps a lot of us intrested, I try to keep it me vs ......... Whatever I am hunting, hopefully I can show my kids the tradition of hunting, the older I get the more it is about the hunt not just the kill or how big ect, wouldn't try to impose my two cents on anyone whatever my belief all I know is what hunting is and means to me and that's all that counts whatever it may be, never tell anyone how to raise their kids and don't tell anyone the way they should hunt

we have evolved as a culture so to look at current hunting practices as a decline in the tradition is not fair. The average household has 2 automobiles, years ago only the rich had cars. Today 99% of houses have floors instead of dirt and we are not worried about bandits jumping us on a hike. Because most of us are fortunate to still be able to feed our families without hunting and when you add up what most of us spend on hunting, venison becomes very expensive. While I'll agree with you that social media has turned some of us into jealous haters, it's not fair to compare the 1800's to modern day hunting. It's apples to oranges. For me, taking a deer has always been a bonus as simply spending time in the woods has always been the cure to what ales me.

[Doc]

When I was a kid people hunted to feed there family's in most cases. Family is from deep in adk, it was a tradition, friends get together, hunt, tell stories ect u get the picture, it was looked down on to hunt in southern zone(easy pickings), things change, times sure have changed, it is sad that a lot of people are just thinking about things in inches, deer are challenging period, think that is what keeps a lot of us intrested, I try to keep it me vs ......... Whatever I am hunting, hopefully I can show my kids the tradition of hunting, the older I get the more it is about the hunt not just the kill or how big ect, wouldn't try to impose my two cents on anyone whatever my belief all I know is what hunting is and means to me and that's all that counts whatever it may be, never tell anyone how to raise their kids and don't tell anyone the way they should hunt

There is no question hunting practices and attitudes have evolved, and not all change is necessarily good. The ideas of tradition, and heritage are being replaced by technology and expediency. And as you pointed out, motivations and measures of satisfaction have evolved as well. Success is now measured in numbers so hunters can compete with other hunters for bragging rights. Hunters are also becoming urbanized and the family connection within the hunting community is practiced by fewer and fewer of us. With all these massive cultural changes in hunting, it is interesting to see people on this thread voicing their opinions based on traditional values that they were raised with. It is basically the last vestige of tradition kicking its feet. There may come a time when people don't even worry about how they get their "high scoring" bucks. Maybe some of those concerns have already been bred out of a lot of us. That wouldn't be a good thing. So, if some people want to cry foul (right or wrong) at some of the practices, I actually feel they are trying to get back to the traditional approaches to hunting that they were raised with. I'm not too worried about it. It all makes good discussions and actually tempers our obsession with "success at any cost". We may or may not agree with some of these things, but I find it encouraging that people are even talking about such things as "fair chase" and hunting ethics. It's a whole lot better than not having any concern with such things at all.

[nyantler]

10 folks from the city....lol

Or from some hunting show..LOL

[nyantler]

When I was a kid people hunted to feed there family's in most cases. Family is from deep in adk, it was a tradition, friends get together, hunt, tell stories ect u get the picture, it was looked down on to hunt in southern zone(easy pickings), things change, times sure have changed, it is sad that a lot of people are just thinking about things in inches, deer are challenging period, think that is what keeps a lot of us intrested, I try to keep it me vs ......... Whatever I am hunting, hopefully I can show my kids the tradition of hunting, the older I get the more it is about the hunt not just the kill or how big ect, wouldn't try to impose my two cents on anyone whatever my belief all I know is what hunting is and means to me and that's all that counts whatever it may be, never tell anyone how to raise their kids and don't tell anyone the way they should hunt

The best hunting attitudes in my opinion are similar to yours... the old saying that "It is not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game" applies here in my view. Learning to enjoy hunting and playing by the rules are way more important than killing the deer... the deer is the bonus (or the win) that comes from spending the time learning what hunting is all about... having a different opinion of what hunting is will always be the case among hunters... the important thing is to enjoy the experience no matter how you do it.

[cwhite]

So now we are throwing a lease property intot he same bucket as a fenced preserve...lol Can't wait to see where this goes.

Don't know how you are getting that I'm throwing lease land into an argument. I was making a point that a several thousand acre area is huge and even unfenced deer under pressure aren't likely to move thousands of acres away from their home core area. I wasn't trying to sound like I was against leases. I have a small lease of my own.

I repeat that I am not a fan of "pick your buck out of a brochure" hunts. But I don't think it is fair to lump in the huge preserves like the ones that are throughout a lot of Texas with that type of "hunting".

[cwhite]

So you think a Lion penned in a fence is just as difficult to kill as a lion killed in the southern arizona mountains? haha, you're a joke.

Go on a dry-ground hunt in Arizona for a Mature Tom, and then come talk to me. I'm done responding. You the type of guy who sees someone with a Billy Goat and says "oh that was an easy hunt".

I should have taken before & after pics with respect to my 2 trips to Arizona. Nobody comes back from a high-fence reserve with any wear and tear on their body.

I'm done responding to this nonsense. I could care less about you "walking" the mountains at your snail pace, try running as fast as you can without falling off a cliff trying to keep up with dogs.

Biz, when I was humping the mountains I was on the trail of drug smugglers and assure you was hunting a creature much tougher and more dangerous to hunt than your lion ever thought of being. But what do I know I'm a joke. Like I said, know what your hunt consisted of and if you think it's any more fair than a 30,000 acre preserve then keep telling yourself that.

[Guns&ReligionCop]

Biz, when I was humping the mountains I was on the trail of drug smugglers and assure you was hunting a creature much tougher and more dangerous to hunt than your lion ever thought of being. But what do I know I'm a joke. Like I said, know what your hunt consisted of and if you think it's any more fair than a 30,000 acre preserve then keep telling yourself that.

These arguments are getting taken to an extreame now. Maybe in Arizona but here most high fenced hunts are 400 acres or less and segemented into different sections. In my googling the largest fenced hunting area I found in the NE was about a 1000 acres and some with hunting areas as small as football fields. Clearly a 30,000 acre high fenced area is a lot different but I would guess most high fenced hunts especially around here are much smaller. I don't just don't see the point of high fenced hunting. I know someone that has a high fenced section of his farm that the deer are used for research and I enjoy watching them and picking up their sheds but these deer are practically pets. I find it amusing when all the guys that hunt up there have their regular deer hanging and theres monster bucks looking at them on the otherside of the fence.

[BizCT]

I covered more than 30,000 acres, so yes it was tougher. No fence to contain a lion. They travel 10-20 miles a day.

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[arrow nocker]

this thread is like a car accident.i don't wanna look but can't help myself.

[Paula]

haha

[nyantler]

I'm kinda on the fence about all this...