Mental Health and being able to obtain a firearm?

[sits in trees]

im hearing alot of lawmakers wanting to put more stringent regs on FFL checks regarding a persons mental health(which they do already), but now they are talking about looking at an applicants family members mental history and to see if you have things like a recent divorce on record. does any of this worry any of you?

[josephmrtn]

not me cause im fine as far as i know and im not married... lol

[tughillhunter]

I can see a recent divorce raising a red flag. But how recent? like a few days, weeks, months? They should do background checks like they do at the nuke plant. oh my god thats a pain.

[Doc]

Why do they care if you were recently divorced? People get divorced all the time without it being any kind of indication that you are nuts. See, it's not the info that they gather, it's the questions about how they intend to use it. Are there some rather innocent life events that all of a sudden are going to be used in some kind of concocted profile? It sounds like they may be fishing for more innocent activities to base rejections on. Or at least there is the possibility that it could be misused in this fashion.

As far as becoming part of somebody else's background check just because you are related, I would say that unless it was with consent, that is investigation techniques that are straying a bit far from the applicant and certainly is an invasion of privacy. Again, depending on the content of the investigation.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

For a pistol permit the interviewed my references and then called my wife. Questions like "Do you mind having a pistol in the house" "Are there other firearms inthe house" and questions sbout kids in the house and how i keep my firearms. They questioned her more than the references.

No imagine an inprocess or recent Ex where the divoce didn't go as they had planned. You are screwed.

[growalot]

Doc...Because ppl like as I've told in the past...my Father who never hunted a day in his life....never owned a gun and got a restraining order against him from a school district for following a school bus driver and while he was driving kids...his wife ...not my mother...was stepping out on him

He went out and bought a double barreled 12ga...and cut the guy in half in a local restaurant....So yep marital problems..can be an issue

With that his craziness...well he was as sane as can be...but his deeds could adversely affect mine and my kids being able to get permits or even rifles now.....

That's just not right

[Doewhacker]

So was your father diagnosed being mentally ill or are you just making things up? Him getting a divorce and being a ding dong didn't make him insane so why would you guess that it would effect you now?

[Doc]

Doc...Because ppl like as I've told in the past...my Father who never hunted a day in his life....never owned a gun and got a restraining order against him from a school district for following a school bus driver and while he was driving kids...his wife ...not my mother...was stepping out on him

He went out and bought a double barreled 12ga...and cut the guy in half in a local restaurant....So yep marital problems..can be an issue

With that his craziness...well he was as sane as can be...but his deeds could adversely affect mine and my kids being able to get permits or even rifles now.....

That's just not right

But is it right to lump in the thousands (millions?) of divorced people with the few that went wacky? And divorce does not automatically = craziness. In fact it seldom does. How much of the governments decisions about you do you want determined by few wackos among us? Oh, and by the way these incidents of people going goofy over romantic difficulties are not limited to just those that are married. There are people that go nuts over being fired. There are people that go crazy over problems at work. There are people that go coo-coo over financial set-backs. Just about every aspect of our lives can become the trigger that sets off some people. Where are you going to draw the line. I mean just how far into your personal life are you willing to let the government wallow into in the name of having a firearm. Yes indeed, go far enough in this direction and you will accomplish defacto gun elimination because at some point the privacy invasion gets to be more than most people will ever tolerate. Well, ok .... getting a bit far away from your question .... lol.

Anyway, do you see my point? When we start having the government deciding things for everybody based on the very few misfits, I think they may be getting close to an abuse of power condition.

[Doewhacker]

Hey look Doc going to the extreem again on a different thread...

[sits in trees]

im alittle worried that they will even increase the stigma that already goes along with any kind of so called mental illness and make people aviod anykind of treatment for fear that the may be branded. it could even make parents of a teen who has depression isssues not seek help because they might be afraid of how that could effect their childs future. this whole mental health thing could actually have a reverse effect on identifiying and treating people who might do something horrible like this?

[Doewhacker]

im alittle worried that they will even increase the stigma that already goes along with any kind of so called mental illness and make people aviod anykind of treatment for fear that the may be branded. it could even make parents of a teen who has depression isssues not seek help because they might be afraid of how that could effect their childs future. this whole mental health thing could actually have a reverse effect on identifiying and treating people who might do something horrible like this?

I agree, it is already a part of the back ground checks, I'm not sure how it could be increased and used more effectively. In fact I don't think it would have mattered in the CT shootings, it is just more knee jerk reaction to things and may in fact cause more collateral damage through folks not seaking treatment.

[growalot]

So was your father diagnosed being mentally ill or are you just making things up? Him getting a divorce and being a ding dong didn't make him insane so why would you guess that it would effect you now?

Really.....you think someone would make up something like that?

I'll Repeat this one more time...there are ppl on this forum that know me...I don't ever make things up...

I relayed that to point out why authorities would question the "stability" of a person with martial problems if future checks....I worked as a volunteer in a "country" woman's shelter...let me tell you there are some real concerns with such situations....

Why would what he did effect me and my kids? Did you not read SIT's post? So before more assumptions are made...I'm not for stringent over sight ...but having first hand knowledge of why ppl ...anyone in law enforcement ...mental health child welfare EMT's...ect..ect .....that see crap ....many can't even imagine...would like to see better vetting...

[Doc]

Hey look Doc going to the extreem again on a different thread...

What is with the mindless outburst. You got some kind of problem that makes you just jump in here with stupid comments like that? You want to talk about something that you think is extreme or are you just flailing around here trying to make some kind of worthless comment to piss somebody off?

[Doewhacker]

Are you capable of discussing things with out the doomsday approach to every thing or no?

[Doewhacker]

Really.....you think someone would make up something like that?

I'll Repeat this one more time...there are ppl on this forum that know me...I don't ever make things up...

I relayed that to point out why authorities would question the "stability" of a person with martial problems if future checks....I worked as a volunteer in a "country" woman's shelter...let me tell you there are some real concerns with such situations....

Why would what he did effect me and my kids? Did you not read SIT's post? So before more assumptions are made...I'm not for stringent over sight ...but having first hand knowledge of why ppl ...anyone in law enforcement ...mental health child welfare EMT's...ect..ect .....that see crap ....many can't even imagine...would like to see better vetting...

So the answer is no he was not diagnosed as mentally ill?

"Stability" is not a mental illness or tracked in any way shape or form.

[growalot]

Here's the biggest problem with governments "Problem Fixes"

Written laws...ordinances...statutes can not and will not ever fix the agencies nor SOMETIMES the ppl working in said agencies over seeing them...... lack of judgement....time given to each case.... red tape and lawyers and personal agendas on and on....to many variables to deal with

Human nature will all ways find a way to put a monkey wrench in best intentions

[Doewhacker]

Here's the biggest problem with governments "Problem Fixes"

Written laws...ordinances...statutes can not and will not ever fix the agencies nor SOMETIMES the ppl working in said agencies over seeing them...... lack of judgement....time given to each case.... red tape and lawyers and personal agendas on and on....to many variables to deal with

Human nature will all ways find a way to put a monkey wrench in best intentions

Agreed, the simpliest fix to a problem is to stop it before it is a problem..especially reguarding mental illness in my opnion.

[Doc]

Are you capable of discussing things with out the doomsday approach to every thing or no?

What the hell are you talking about? You're not making any sense.

[growalot]

So the answer is no he was not diagnosed as mentally ill?

"Stability" is not a mental illness or tracked in any way shape or form.

Well he could have been had the Sheriffs dept not dropped the ball...For her psychiatrist called me and asked what my knowledge of his mental state was....Gee he'd gathered her kids and us told us of his murder plan...Her kids called me to say he'd bought the gun...which I tried to find...Then the psychiatrist called the sheriff and made an appointment for us to see him 11pm at night...same sheriff that handled the restraining order....Had him call another police Dept to verify what I was saying...as we sat there...they confirmed every thing

Then the Sheriff did absolutely nothing...2 wks later....

[Doewhacker]

What the hell are you talking about? You're not making any sense.

You really need some new tactics Doc, first you go with the give them an inch they take a mile approach to every thing, then comes you disagreeing or just not listening to any one's opinions, then they are an anti, then when all else fails you try to play dumb in an effort to belittle the other person in front of others, which by the only makes you look like a fool.

So are you ok with mentaly ill having guns or the background checks asking about mental illness?

[growalot]

Now there are hundreds...naaaa...... thousands of such incidences occurring across this country ....adding more laws... isn't the fix...nor will it ever be

equate it to..... building a basement and the walls all crack....building a house over it isn't going to change the cracked foundation

[Doewhacker]

Well he could have been had the Sheriffs dept not dropped the ball...For her psychiatrist called me and asked what my knowledge of his mental state was....Gee he'd gathered her kids and us told us of his murder plan...Her kids called me to say he'd bought the gun...which I tried to find...Then the psychiatrist called the sheriff and made an appointment for us to see him 11pm at night...same sheriff that handled the restraining order....Had him call another police Dept to verify what I was saying...as we sat there...they confirmed every thing

Then the Sheriff did absolutely nothing...2 wks later....

So... ... no.

[growalot]

Actually I believe they did...just as a show...for he never went to court...mind you premeditated murder...he executed the plot I told the sheriff to a T...

I never saw him again after a prison visit where he told me ...in detail how after blowing the guys shoulder off...he found him trying to crawl out the kitchen door ....listening to him beg for his life as he reloaded the shot gun...his wife stepped out from the bar area...he looked at his victim and said this is her fault and empty the gun from 10ft away...

then told me he'd do it again and the only thing that he felt bad for was the guy had young kids...

They plea bargained him and he served a lousy 7yrs...He went back to that woman...just died this Nov 20th...and by the Grace of God only...never killed another person

So say what you want..."stability" should at least get a passing glance

Edited December 18, 2012 by growalot

[PWGUNNY]

Here in Nassau County, I still await my approval for my pistol permit. Part of the delay is blamed on the agency in Albany that has to do a mental health history check on me. So I know at least for Nassau county there is a mental capacity check on handgun permits. I am also required to safeguard my pistols in a locked container(exa. handgun safe). The pistols in the CT shooting were legally owned by the mother, but poorly safeguarded.

[Doc]

You really need some new tactics Doc, first you go with the give them an inch they take a mile approach to every thing, then comes you disagreeing or just not listening to any one's opinions, then they are an anti, then when all else fails you try to play dumb in an effort to belittle the other person in front of others, which by the only makes you look like a fool.

So are you ok with mentaly ill having guns or the background checks asking about mental illness?

Is it impossible for you to reference any specifics at all so I can get a clue what the heck you are referring to or is this just some kind of random generic "bust on Doc for no real reason" kind of post. Honestly, you are making no sense at all. I can't find anything in this thread that even possibly represents anything you are talking about. I'm serious. I searched the thread for any indication of "doomsday" anything and it's not there. I looked for anything that could possibly be interpreted as "extreme" ..... nothing. Now you are flailing around with something about giving an inch and somebody taking a mile. And finally you seemed to have found something in my replies that say that the mentally ill should have guns, or that something indicating that I don't believe that mental illness should be a part of the background check. Again, there is none of that anywhere in this thread that I can find.

Look, it's hard enough to keep all these things straight without somebody making up things that I haven't said. So, if you have a real legitimate complaint, let's hear it because right now you are not making a bit of sense. To me it just sounds like a lot of crazy talk designed to just arbitrarily piss me off for no reason. And I've got to tell you that really is confusing because I don't think we have had hardly any conversation at all, so I don't know where this is all coming from.