Summing Up Gun Control For Those Who Don't Oppose It

[Mr VJP]

"The government may not descend to the evil of preventive law. The government cannot treat men as guilty until they have proven themselves to be, for the moment, innocent. No law can require the individual to prove that he won't violate another's rights, in the absence of evidence that he is going to. But this is precisely what gun control laws do. Gun control laws use force against the individual in the absence of any specific evidence that he is about to commit a crime. They say to the rational, responsible gun owner: you may not have or carry a gun because others have used them irrationally or irresponsibly. Thus, preventive law sacrifices the rational and responsible to the irrational and irresponsible. This is unjust and intolerable. The government may coercively intervene only when there is an objective threat that someone is going to use force. ... Statistics about how often gun-related crimes occur in the population is no evidence against you. That's collectivist thinking. The choices made by others are irrelevant to the choices that you will make. ... The government may respond only to specific threats, objectively evident. It has no right to initiate force against the innocent. And a gun owner is innocent until specific evidence arises that he is threatening to initiate force. Laws prohibiting or regulating guns across the board represent the evil of preventive law and should be abolished." --columnist Harry Binswanger

Got that Cuomo? Friggin' Tyrant Spawned By A Dying Failed Tyrant.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Mr VJP

[Mr VJP]

Imagine if the law was proposing castrating all American men because you might use your genitals to commit rape. How many men would think that is OK?

[wztirem]

New York Is Moving Quickly to Enact Tough Curbs on Guns

[wztirem]

The Morning Plum: Will any Republicans support sensible gun law reforms?

[wztirem]

Firearms Legislation In The 112th Congress - Gun Owners of America

[wztirem]

Jeffersonian Perspective: Guns & 2nd Amendment

[wztirem]

Second Thoughts

“The N.R.A. is not going to let people lose the Second Amendment in this ... Thomas Jefferson: Gentlemen, a thought has occurred to me ...

[josephmrtn]

"Unconstitutional Laws Are Not Laws" -Joshua Boston USMC Veteran

[wztirem]

Our obsession with the Constitution has saddled us with a dysfunctional political system, kept us from debating the merits of divisive issues and inflamed our public discourse. Instead of arguing about what is to be done, we argue about what James Madison might have wanted done 225 years ago.

[wztirem]

"If we acknowledged what should be obvious — that much constitutional language is broad enough to encompass an almost infinitely wide range of positions — we might have a very different attitude about the obligation to obey. It would become apparent that people who disagree with us about the Constitution are not violating a sacred text or our core commitments. Instead, we are all invoking a common vocabulary to express aspirations that, at the broadest level, everyone can embrace. Of course, that does not mean that people agree at the ground level. If we are not to abandon constitutionalism entirely, then we might at least understand it as a place for discussion, a demand that we make a good-faith effort to understand the views of others, rather than as a tool to force others to give up their moral and political judgments.

If even this change is impossible, perhaps the dream of a country ruled by “We the people” is impossibly utopian. If so, we have to give up on the claim that we are a self-governing people who can settle our disagreements through mature and tolerant debate. But before abandoning our heritage of self-government, we ought to try extricating ourselves from constitutional bondage so that we can give real freedom a chance."

[WNYBuckHunter]

Second Thoughts

“The N.R.A. is not going to let people lose the Second Amendment in this ... Thomas Jefferson: Gentlemen, a thought has occurred to me ...

Hmmm, nothing of substance there, just some fictional work from the brain of a liberal with an agenda.

[Doc]

Second Thoughts

“The N.R.A. is not going to let people lose the Second Amendment in this ... Thomas Jefferson: Gentlemen, a thought has occurred to me ...

Ah yes and yet another post from the "Internet Link King" who apparently has never had an original thought of his own that didn't come from the fiction of others ...... lol. I stopped accessing these things after the 3rd one. Would have made more sense to have stopped just prior to the first ..... lol. Kind of looks like someone who has just discovered Google for the first time.

[wztirem]

Ah yes and yet another post from the "Internet Link King" who apparently has never had an original thought of his own that didn't come from the fiction of others ...... lol. I stopped accessing these things after the 3rd one. Would have made more sense to have stopped just prior to the first ..... lol. Kind of looks like someone who has just discovered Google for the first time.

Spoken as the true "bloviator" which you are.

You just cannot help yourself. For heavens sake, at least be consistent and attribute such self serving comments to all others would post links for others to consider.

What a I posted are links, just that and contain no editorial comment on my part.

You do not have to read the links, but your position as a moderator (sic) and objective critic on this forum leaves you no other choice.

To quote Martin McDowell "You are a blowhard"

[Doc]

Spoken as the true "bloviator" which you are.

You just cannot help yourself. For heavens sake, at least be consistent and attribute such self serving comments to all others would post links for others to consider.

What a I posted are links, just that and contain no editorial comment on my part.

You do not have to read the links, but your position as a moderator (sic) and objective critic on this forum leaves you no other choice.

To quote Martin McDowell "You are a blowhard"

There do you feel better now? ..... lol. At least you paused for a bit from your deluge of anti-gun links to actually express a real thought of your own. That alone is an improvement.

Look, I have no problem with posting links (do it myself occasionally), but when you post 4 or 5 of them in a row without any personal comment of your own, I have to admit that I was beginning to wonder just how long this string was going to last. Give Google a rest for crying out loud ..... lol.

[Doewhacker]

There do you feel better now? ..... lol. At least you paused for a bit from your deluge of anti-gun links to actually express a real thought of your own. That alone is an improvement.

Look, I have no problem with posting links (do it myself occasionally), but when you post 4 or 5 of them in a row without any personal comment of your own, I have to admit that I was beginning to wonder just how long this string was going to last. Give Google a rest for crying out loud ..... lol.

Since when did "Guns Owners of America" turn anti gun? Get a grip Doc.

And to be clear other members like the OP here are clear to post links and or qoutes from various sources but no one else is?

[Doc]

And to be clear other members like the OP here are clear to post links and or qoutes from various sources but no one else is?

I think I already answered that.

[Mr VJP]

"If even this change is impossible, perhaps the dream of a country ruled by “We the people” is impossibly utopian. If so, we have to give up on the claim that we are a self-governing people who can settle our disagreements through mature and tolerant debate. But before abandoning our heritage of self-government, we ought to try extricating ourselves from constitutional bondage so that we can give real freedom a chance."

Self governing does not include minimizing the rights of the few, at the demand of the majority. A right is inalienable, period. Without "Constitutional Bondage" there is no freedom at all. Because if we allow men to decide to vary the degree of freedom among it's country's citizens, we have no equality, nor real freedom.

We live and prosper by the Rule Of Law, not by the rule of men. And the Constitution is the First Law of this land, that all the rest are tested under. If it is unconstitutional, it is NOT LAW, and it is not freedom!

[Five Seasons]

blah, blah, blah. Why must we have 100 posts a day by the same people making the same points over and over again?

[nyantler]

Our obsession with the Constitution has saddled us with a dysfunctional political system, kept us from debating the merits of divisive issues and inflamed our public discourse. Instead of arguing about what is to be done, we argue about what James Madison might have wanted done 225 years ago.

The Constitution is pretty simple and straight forward except to the people who think it needs to be changed. Most Americans think it's fine and clear just the way it was written especially those who have risked and given their lives to protect it.