DEC and controlled burns

[Pav2704]

I was wondering if anybody has ever had a controlled burn on their property. I have an area that's roughly 3 or 4 acres of thorns, fallen trees, and brush piles from a bad logging job years ago. This area is extremely difficult to navigate through and would be great if I could use for food plots. I thought about getting someone in with a bulldozer to clean the area, however, its not the most level land and I don't want to spend that much money. Does the DEC do controlled burns or would I have to hire someone?

Thanks

[jr.deerslayer]

It might be worth asking your area fire department. They might be interested in a controlled burn for training purposes.

[phade]

DEC here is notorious for not allowing the practice. Local fire departments are more likely the best route as it is "practice" and PR.

Are deer bedding in there...I don't think I'd ever want to burn tough to navigate thickets.

[Geno C]

sounds like an area you might rather brush hog down and maybe bulldoze some stuff around and maybe burn a pile of woods rather then the whole 3-4 acres... if its thickets might be a great place for deer bedding, why the reason to remove?

[jim335]

Here ya go.......

Questions and Answers Regarding Open Burning

Regulations Effective October 14, 2009

1. Do the regulations on open burning make burning household trash in burn barrels or piles illegal?

Yes. Burning trash is prohibited statewide in all cases. Our existing incinerator rule already prohibits burning household trash in wood stoves, fireplaces, and outdoor wood boilers. DEC recommends that you recycle all appropriate materials (such as newspaper, paper, glass and plastic) and compost your organic kitchen and garden waste.

Watch a public service announcement on open burning on DEC TV.

2. What are the regulations on open burning in New York State?

Effective on October 14, 2009, all open burning is prohibited in New York with several exceptions including the following:

• Campfires less than 3 feet in height and 4 feet in length, width or diameter are allowed.
  
• Small cooking fires are allowed.
  
• Fires cannot be left unattended and must be fully extinguished.
  
• Only charcoal or clean, untreated or unpainted wood can be burned.
  
• Ceremonial or celebratory bonfires are allowed.
  

In towns with a total population less than 20,000, you may burn tree limbs with attached leaves. The limbs must be less than 6 inches in diameter and 8 feet in length (also referred to as brush). However, this is not allowed from March 16 through May 14 due to the increased risk of wildfires.

See Section 215.3 for a full list of exceptions.

3. Why has DEC changed the regulations allowing open burning in New York State?

Open burning of household trash releases dangerous compounds including arsenic, carbon monoxide, benzene, styrene, formaldehyde, lead, hydrogen cyanide and dioxin, among others. Open burning is also the single greatest cause of wildfires in New York.

4. Can I burn leaves if I live in a rural area?

No, burning leaves is banned in New York State. We encourage you to compost leaves.

5. Your rule says firewood must be untreated, some firewood is heat-treated, is that allowed?

Some firewood is heat treated (kiln dried) to control invasive insect species if it is to be transported over 50 miles. Heat treated firewood is not intended to be prohibited. However, the burning of chemically treated wood such as pressure-treated lumber and plywood is prohibited.

6. Are open fires allowed to control invasive plant and insect species?

Yes. Case-by-case DEC approval is not required.

7. Can agricultural wastes be burned?

Yes, organic agricultural wastes may be burned on-site where they are grown or generated including brush and wood produced by clearing fields and other activities. The fire must be located on contiguous agricultural land larger than 5 acres, and the materials capable of being fully burned within 24 hours.

The burning of pesticides, plastics or other non-organic material is prohibited.

8. Can I burn liquid petroleum fueled smudge pots to prevent frost damage to crops?

Yes. However, burning tires and other wastes for smudge is not allowed.

9. Can prescribed burns be performed?

Yes. Prescribed burns, the burning of forest land to achieve a vegetative or wildlife management goal, can be performed but only in accordance with DEC regulations. Check with your regional DEC office.

10. Are fire training burning activities allowed?

Yes, with some restrictions on the use of acquired structures and in accordance with guidance from NYS Dept. of State's Office of Fire Prevention and Control. The Fire Services Bureau may be reached at 518-474-6746.

11. Are individual open fires to control plant and animal disease outbreaks allowed?

Yes, as approved case-by-case by DEC, upon the request by the Commissioner of Agriculture and Markets.

12. Can I dispose of a flag or religious item in an open fire?

Yes, in a small-sized fire if it is not otherwise prohibited by law or regulation.

13. Are permits for open fires still required in some parts of the state?

Yes. While a permit is not required under this regulation, the Environmental Conservation Law (ECL) still requires that a permit be obtained from the Department if you plan to burn brush under the exception and you live in a town which is totally or partially located within the boundaries of the Adirondack and Catskill Parks which is designated as a "Fire Town" under the ECL (see list below). In addition, any local requirements or restrictions would apply.

• Clinton County, the towns of Altona, Ausable, Black Brook, Dannemora, Ellenburg and Saranac;
  
• Delaware County, the towns of Andes, Colchester, Hancock and Middletown;
  
• Essex County, all towns
  
• Franklin County, the towns of Altamont, Belmont, Brighton, Duane, Franklin, Harrietstown, Santa Clara and Waverly;
  
• Fulton County, the towns of Bleecker, Caroga, Mayfield, Northampton and Stratford;
  
• Greene County, the towns of Hunter, Jewitt, Lexington and Windham;
  
• Hamilton County, all towns;
  
• Herkimer County, the towns of Ohio, Russia, Salisbury and Webb;
  
• Lewis County, the towns of Crogham, Diana, Grieg, Lyonsdale and Watson;
  
• Oneida County, the towns of Forestport and Remsen;
  
• Saratoga County, the towns of Corinth, Day, Edinburg and Hadley;
  
• Saint Lawrence County, the towns of Clare, Clifton, Colton, Fine, Hopkinton, Parishville, Piercefield and Pitcairn;
  
• Sullivan County, the towns of Neversink and Rockland;
  
• Ulster County, the towns of Denning, Gardiner, Hardinburgh, Olive, Rochester, Shandaken, Shawangunk, Wawarsing and Woodstock;
  
• Warren County, the towns of Bolton, Chester, Hague, Horicon, Johnsburgh, Lake George, Luzerne, Queensbury, Stoney Creek, Thurman and Warrensburgh;
  
• Washington County, the towns of Dresden, Fort Ann and Putnam.
  

14. Can a town prohibit open burning that the state allows?

Yes, towns, villages, cities and counties can pass ordinances that are stricter than, and not inconsistent with, the open fires regulations. You should check with local authorities to find out if local law requires a permit or prohibits open fires.

15. Can explosives, or other dangerous contraband, be burned?

Yes, on an emergency basis by police or other public safety organizations only.

16. Can brush piles be burned at transfer sites?

No, the practice of burning large piles of brush collected from local residents at town or county transfer sites is prohibited. The individual landowners in small towns may burn their brush on site as discussed under question 2 above. Downed limbs and branches generated at a transfer site are also allowed to be burned on site with the same restrictions.

17. Where should I call to report an illegal open fire?

To report environmental law violations call 1-800-TIPP DEC (1-800-847-7332).

The Department has received many questions regarding DEC's implementation of Part 215, regarding open fires. This document is intended to inform the general public about open fire regulation in New York and assist the regulated community in understanding the requirements of Part 215.

[growalot]

I think there is an insurance issue with local volunteer fire Depts. as well...Though they did do a burn on a neighbors house...they wanted a new modular...decided the two story they had wasn't fiscally viable to fix up...so the fire dept burnt it to the ground and they put a modular on the site

[Pav2704]

sounds like an area you might rather brush hog down and maybe bulldoze some stuff around and maybe burn a pile of woods rather then the whole 3-4 acres... if its thickets might be a great place for deer bedding, why the reason to remove?

I thought I would have the controlled burn and let the new growth become bedding areas for the deer. Maybe I am better off doing my best to cut trails around this area? Years ago, the previous owner had this area logged and there were alot of trees left behind. Most of the area is unwalkable due to the thorns and downed trees.

[phade]

I thought I would have the controlled burn and let the new growth become bedding areas for the deer. Maybe I am better off doing my best to cut trails around this area? Years ago, the previous owner had this area logged and there were alot of trees left behind. Most of the area is unwalkable due to the thorns and downed trees.

One of the best mature buck bedding areas ever. Period. Don't understand why you would get rid of it for sake of a food plot. Quality bedding is much more rare than food in 99.99% of properties.

I'd scout it when snow melts, and hang stands appropriately as close as possible while still being able to get in without blowing the beds up.

One thing you may want to look at, is digging a small pond or placing a waterhole there (cheap kiddie pool or fountain pond liner) strategically in there. It's a great way to inventory the bucks via game cam in summer. If you have a safe haven water source mid-summer, you'll have plenty of day time pics to see what is out there. Also, it's a slam-dunk spot for the time when rut action i shot and heavy...people avoid water hunting at this time for funnels. Bucks drink as much water at that time as they do in mid-summer...they become de-hydrated when chasing and breeding. Bucks also like tending does in thick habitat...so you have a water hole and a thicket...think about it.

Edited February 6, 2013 by phade

[Pav2704]

Thanks Phade...

I didn't look at it that way. I have a pond on the property and there's a small stream that runs through this area. Would you even consider cutting in trails around where it can be done or would leave the area alone all together?

One of the best mature buck bedding areas ever. Period. Don't understand why you would get rid of it for sake of a food plot. Quality bedding is much more rare than food in 99.99% of properties.

I'd scout it when snow melts, and hang stands appropriately as close as possible while still being able to get in without blowing the beds up.

One thing you may want to look at, is digging a small pond or placing a waterhole there (cheap kiddie pool or fountain pond liner) strategically in there. It's a great way to inventory the bucks via game cam in summer. If you have a safe haven water source mid-summer, you'll have plenty of day time pics to see what is out there. Also, it's a slam-dunk spot for the time when rut action i shot and heavy...people avoid water hunting at this time for funnels. Bucks drink as much water at that time as they do in mid-summer...they become de-hydrated when chasing and breeding. Bucks also like tending does in thick habitat...so you have a water hole and a thicket...think about it.

[phade]

Thanks Phade...

I didn't look at it that way. I have a pond on the property and there's a small stream that runs through this area. Would you even consider cutting in trails around where it can be done or would leave the area alone all together?

Throw on some lined carhartts or denim and scout it right after snow melts and locate the beds. Then decide how they are using it and go from there. If the creek flows year-round, that may be a good spot to set a cam or start your search...maybe walk in there and see where the sign takes you. There will be crossings or travel corridors crossing it at some point I bet. Might even have bedding nearby or next to it if the buck can see a ways in the off-wind direction.

[5.9cummins]

Thanks Phade...

I didn't look at it that way. I have a pond on the property and there's a small stream that runs through this area. Would you even consider cutting in trails around where it can be done or would leave the area alone all together?

I'm with phade.

Don't touch it in any way shape or form. Thick bedding is a mature buck safe haven especially when the pumpkins take to the woods.

I have some family property that a relative owns and there was about 35 acres of some of the thickest spruce you could find. I always hunted the perimeter and saw a ton of big bucks. Right before i moved away from home the landowner decided they were going to cut "walking trails" through the area. So they took to it cutting tunnels Cris-crossing the patch of trees. They didn't remove trees but created travel corridors which would have been fine if they would have stayed out of there.

Only problem is they didn't stay out and would constantly walk through there trying to get a shot at the bucks that used if for bedding. The bucks quit using it to my knowledge.

[josephmrtn]

Thanks Phade...

I didn't look at it that way. I have a pond on the property and there's a small stream that runs through this area. Would you even consider cutting in trails around where it can be done or would leave the area alone all together?

i am in no way qualified to answer but my personal opinion would be not to cut much at all if any... possibly clear a bit so you could have a trail to any stands you hang in there but for the most part id say leave it wild, the deer like it that way...

[growalot]

Nothing wrong with clearing small winding trails through such and area...I do this all the time...the deer actually like it ......for they can walk easier..and a buck with a good rack in velvet...doesn't want to bang it up or tear it on briers and roses.....Then in the fall they cross check those same trails...Makes browsing easier...where you clear forbs will grow even on a foot path...

[phade]

Thicket pictures from this year. Only opening in the thicket.

3-4 acres with two ponds.

Killed one of them opening day of bow.

Edited February 6, 2013 by phade

[mike rossi]

You want a prescribed fire, not a controlled burn. On request Fire Depts. will burn down old houses and call it a controlled burn. When you burn for habitat you dont want the fire to get too hot because it effects regrowth of plants, the fire dept has no knowledge about this and other "eco" things related to burning for habitat.

I dont know how the dec regulates prescribed burns, but if they do allow it it would be wise to consult or hire a private wildlife biologist with prescribed burning experience. You might get referals through the ruffed grouse society.

I dont know how much land you are working with, but as others posted, thick bedding or escape cover is a component of habitat, just like food. If you can meet the target species year- round needs for everything, you created prime habitat. At some point however, that thick bedding cover will mature into open forest with little value to deer. You can use fire, as well as logging and brush hogging to keep the plant communities at the age useful to deer or whatever your target species is.

If you do burn, (here we go tell me Im full of it) you really dont need food plots because one of the benefits of burning is that the new growth is high protien, attractive, and palatable to deer.

Good Luck and I would be interested in knowing the DEC regs on prescribed burns!

Edited February 6, 2013 by mike rossi

[Gthphtm]

Nothing wrong with clearing small winding trails through such and area...I do this all the time...the deer actually like it ......for they can walk easier..and a buck with a good rack in velvet...doesn't want to bang it up or tear it on briers and roses.....Then in the fall they cross check those same trails...Makes browsing easier...where you clear forbs will grow even on a foot path...

X2 on what grow. said,Three years after my property was logged,thorn bushes and blackberry bushes grew everywhere.I just went with my JD with the bucket on the front and cut trails for to walk threw the areas.The deer and other animals use them every day and when the blackberries are in season thy stop and fill there bellies.I did dig a small pond which the use also.They do also bed in some of the thicket areas.

[Pav2704]

Thanks for all the great info!!!

[josephmrtn]

Thicket pictures from this year. Only opening in the thicket.

3-4 acres with two ponds.

Killed one of them opening day of bow.

WOW nice deer!!!! BTW what model of spypoint cam do you have? ive got the IR-5 and love it

[phade]

WOW nice deer!!!! BTW what model of spypoint cam do you have? ive got the IR-5 and love it

FLA- and G4. G4 is the best $100 and under cams available.

That said, I am transitioning to black flash. I'll have my last G4 and FL-A up for sale soon. I may keep the FL-A for high risk locations or for turkey just because it takes good daytime pics.

This thread has been great...lots of valuable input here from varous members. By far the best/most useful thread on this site in a long while.

Edited February 6, 2013 by phade

[NYBuckHunter27]

One of the best mature buck bedding areas ever. Period. Don't understand why you would get rid of it for sake of a food plot. Quality bedding is much more rare than food in 99.99% of properties.

I'd scout it when snow melts, and hang stands appropriately as close as possible while still being able to get in without blowing the beds up.

One thing you may want to look at, is digging a small pond or placing a waterhole there (cheap kiddie pool or fountain pond liner) strategically in there. It's a great way to inventory the bucks via game cam in summer. If you have a safe haven water source mid-summer, you'll have plenty of day time pics to see what is out there. Also, it's a slam-dunk spot for the time when rut action i shot and heavy...people avoid water hunting at this time for funnels. Bucks drink as much water at that time as they do in mid-summer...they become de-hydrated when chasing and breeding. Bucks also like tending does in thick habitat...so you have a water hole and a thicket...think about it.

Do you have a picture of one of these small waterholes? i like the idea.

[phade]

Do you have a picture of one of these small waterholes? i like the idea.

I do not, actually. Never really thought it'd be pic worthy.

Not hard to do. The cheapest and easiest way is to buy a $10 kid pool at Walmart and set it under a runoff (say a bush/shrub with wide leaves that will direct rainwater into it.

In cases where that's not possible, use a shovel and a contractor trash bag or two (heavy duty plastic) or a cheap plastic drop cloth. Dig out the space so the pool sits slightly below ground level and line the pool wall with plastic to direct the water into it from the surface. Mine never look pretty, but they work and work well. Ones in the ground tend to hold water better/longer. Probably more effective at "catching" it since the ground water runoff contributes to it. If the ground is sloped, you can use that to your advantage.

Edited February 6, 2013 by phade

[Doc]

Pav-

I'm not sure what you are envisioning the end result of a controlled burn to be. If you are looking for all plantlife to be removed and a nice field in it's place, I don't think that is the usual outcome. I have seen full out raging forest fires that don't do that. Generally what is left is a whole bunch of woody spikey trash sticking up all over the place. But, what is accomplished is a whole bunch of good nutrients are added to the ground. And guess what ...... those muti-flora rose bushes and wild raspberries and all other kinds of brush with all those "pokey" things are the first and most healthy things to pop back up. They just love it and thrive on the new additions to the soil. So the burn is just a partial step to getting control back from the man-killer plants that love to tear you up. So, you might want to think about how to handle what's left after the burn, and then make sure you have the equipment and time to finish the job off or you might wind up with a worse mess (but a very healthy mess ..... lol) than you presently have.

Do you have any pictures of what the vegetation in this area looks like? Are there saplings scattered through it? ..... Trees? ..... vines? ...... Any open areas inside (goldenrod and such)? Is it the kind of thing that a good heavy bush-hog could handle? Is the ground dry, swampy or maybe even too wet for finish clearing and fitting and food plot equipment? How big is the area that you would like to open?

[growalot]

Here are some water hole ideas...the third pic is just the corner of a Koi Pond liner....I try not to sink them anymore because the frogs breed and hatch minnows....dirties the water too much...

Edited February 6, 2013 by growalot

[Pav2704]

Doc... I don't have pics. I will take some next time that I head up. I guess I was in visioning something that wasn't such an eye sore and I wanted to be able to access the area as well. Like I said before its mostly fallen trees covered in thorns. On top of that it drops into a valley in the middle which I think it would make it tough to get any real heavey equipment in there. I cut a trail with a brush hog last year that runs parallel to this area and I was going to try to cut a few trails perpendicular this coming year. However, the thorns definately won since my arms looked like they were in a horror movie! Lol