Need help gathering gun crime statistics?

[88GW]

I have searched and have been unable to find statistics regarding the use of illegally possessed or stolen guns being used in the commission of a crime or murder in NY state. I would like to be able to present this info. to all of the supporters of the SAFE ACT. Most information I have found just lists types of firearms used and not if the guns were legal or not. Any info with links would be great.

[virgil]

I would assume that the overwhelming majority of the guns used in crimes are illegally possessed. And, I'm assuming that you'd want to use that statistic to prove that it is not the law abiding gun owners who are committing these crimes. But, wouldn't that just strengthen the argument for closing the secondary sales loopholes? I've always been curious about the reasons for resisting closing those loopholes.

[88GW]

Thank you virgil for your interest. You assumed correctly in what I am trying to convey. It seems impossible to find info regarding illegally possessed weapons. Plenty of stats on handguns, pistols, rifles etc. Unfortunately without numbers I can't just make statements regarding guns used in crimes.

[virgil]

I think it would be interesting to look at ways to prevent legally purchased guns from becoming illegally possessed guns.

[josephmrtn]

the best way is to have them loaded in the hands of a responsible citizen!!!

[virgil]

The best way to what??? Are any of your comments on these subjects ever anything but silly cliche's? Really, you have an incredible knack for killing an intelligent conversation.

[josephmrtn]

WTH??? the best ways to "prevent legally purchased guns from becoming illegally possessed" i was just giving you a way like you asked for...

[88GW]

Virgil I agree With you100%. In most of my searches it seems most handguns were from out of state which would make them all illegal in NY. I am just trying to put together an intelligent argument about illegal guns and crimes. Hoping to find stats and not cliches as you put it. Im still working at this and will post info for all to share and sound intelligent when speaking to anti-gunners or pro safe act individuals. I feel it would be more powerful and persuasive than the typical its my second ammendment right speech.

[ants]

The overwhelming majority of gun crimes committed in New York are Committed with illegal hand guns. Most of these guns are either stolen or purchased in states that only require a clean drivers license to buy the weapon. Career criminal, gang banging repeat offender scum find people with a clean license, pay them to buy the weapon, out of state, and then bring the gun into NY where it is used to commit what ever crimes. In NY ( unless you are a criminal scum who already possesses a hand gun illegally) you cannot sell a hand gun, that is on your permit, to another person, unless that person also has a valid permit. If a person did, and that gun was used in a crime , the gun would be easily traced back to the original permit holder.

So I guess I don't get the whole "secondary sales loopholes"

[88GW]

Ants. That is most definitely the case. I have read several instances in the city of Albany where I am close to where the gun was found to be stolen from florida or other states. I am still looking for cold hard stats on this though. I have tried but to no avail. I too am curious about the secondary sales loopholes.

[HighlandLofts]

88

I doubt if you'll ever see that statistic on stollen guns used in cimes, The powers to be know we would prove our point on how many crimes are commited with illegal guns verses legally owned guns.

The fact that I write ny Senators

[wooffer]

The overwhelming majority of gun crimes committed in New York are Committed with illegal hand guns. Most of these guns are either stolen or purchased in states that only require a clean drivers license to buy the weapon. Career criminal, gang banging repeat offender scum find people with a clean license, pay them to buy the weapon, out of state, and then bring the gun into NY where it is used to commit what ever crimes. In NY ( unless you are a criminal scum who already possesses a hand gun illegally) you cannot sell a hand gun, that is on your permit, to another person, unless that person also has a valid permit. If a person did, and that gun was used in a crime , the gun would be easily traced back to the original permit holder.

So I guess I don't get the whole "secondary sales loopholes"

ANTS, they are buying into the "gun show loophole" crap. You know, grandpa dies and grandma takes his guns to the gun show. Leroy shows up, buys them all up and heads to Chicago to use them in crimes. Of course this doesn't apply to handgun transfers, but they make the idotic public think gun shows are for buying crime guns. You want to reduce crime?? Increase CCW in that area. Chicago doesn't have a gun problem, it has a leadership and people problem.

[HighlandLofts]

I hit the post button by mistake, sorry.

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88

I doubt if you'll ever see that statistic on stollen guns used in cimes, The powers to be know we would prove our point on how many crimes are commited with illegal guns verses legally owned guns.

I live in Washington State, I lived in Upstate New York for fourty-two years prior to moveing out west.

When I write my senators & congressman I tell them that 2/3rds of all gun related deaths are atributed to SUISIDE, The 1/3rd of gun deaths left over most of them are gang-bangers shooting their rival gang-bangers and drug dealers shooting their non-paying drug addicted customers, or the dug addicted customers robbing their drug dealers and killing them in the process, either way no great loss. Then you have all of the people that Law Enforcement kill, They are mixed in to the final numbers.

People killed by assualt rifles are less then one percent of all gun deaths, most of them are people that get shot & killed by Law Enforcement. The rest are killed by mentally challenged mis-fits that are off of their meds if they have any, or have not been to any kind of mental health facility to get evaluated. Family can't afford it and the state won't set in.

I have a long letter that I spend hours putting together for my ellected officials that covers a lot of subjects.

[5.9cummins]

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

This site is interesting, not exactly what you are looking for but interesting.

[virgil]

88, thanks- it's nice to see someone actually putting the time in to find actual facts to make an intelligent statement, as opposed to a lot of the nonsense that gets thrown around. Ants, yes, I was actually referring to the gun show loophole as far as the secondary sales market. I'm still curious as to why there would be any opposition to closing that loophole. And Woofer, nice job with the 'Leroy' example- you never disappoint.

[ants]

88, thanks- it's nice to see someone actually putting the time in to find actual facts to make an intelligent statement, as opposed to a lot of the nonsense that gets thrown around. Ants, yes, I was actually referring to the gun show loophole as far as the secondary sales market. I'm still curious as to why there would be any opposition to closing that loophole. And Woofer, nice job with the 'Leroy' example- you never disappoint.

What is the "gun show loophole?" There certainly is no loophole when it comes to hand guns. You cannot buy a hand gun at a gun show, with out a valid pistol permit. I believe venders at gun shows are also required to call in back ground checks on any long gun they sell.

The only thing that may be considered a gun show loophole is when private citizens go to a a show, with a long gun that they want to sell. If you have been to a show Im sure you have seen guys walking around with long guns slung over their shoulders with prices attached somewhere on the guns.( most of these guns are antiques or collectable, not the type that criminals want) If they sell the gun to another attendee, no back ground check is done. Just like if you were to sell your shot gun another person.

This whole "gun show loophole" thing is just another distraction from the real problem which is criminals with handguns that are either stolen or purchased out of state and then illegally given to the criminal.

[88GW]

5.9. Thanks for the site, some interesting info. The reason I am going after this info is our town is actually trying to support the NYS SAFE ACT. There is a public comment period and I have 5 minutes to get my point across. I would like some cold hard facts rather than the typical rhetoric these people are use to hearing. Other memebers of my sportsmans club will be speaking as well. Thanks

Edited March 5, 2013 by 88GW

[virgil]

Ants, I think you're a bit confused regarding the 'gun show loophole'. The laws that exist for registered dealers and people in the business do not apply to ordinary citizens when conducting private sales.

This is from Wikipedia regarding 'gun show loophole':

U.S. federal law requires persons engaged in interstate firearm commerce, or those who are "engaged in the business" of dealing firearms, to hold a Federal Firearms License and perform background checks through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System maintained by the FBI prior to transferring a firearm. Under the terms of the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986, however, individuals "not engaged in the business" of dealing firearms, or who only make "occasional" sales within their state of residence, are under no requirement to conduct background checks on purchasers or maintain records of sale (although even private sellers are forbidden under federal law from selling firearms to persons they have reason to believe are felons or otherwise prohibited from purchasing firearms).

Those seeking to close the "Gun Show Loophole" argue that it provides convicted felons and other prohibited purchasers (i.e., domestic abusers, substance abusers, those who have been adjudicated as "mental defectives," etc.) with opportunities to evade background checks, as they can easily buy firearms from private sellers with no accountability or oversight.

Use of the "Gun Show Loophole" has been advocated by terrorists. In the summer of 2011, Adam Gadahn declared that "America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms." He also incorrectly claimed that, "You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle, without a background check, and most likely without having to show an identification card," Gadahn urged Western extremists to follow this path. Subsequent news analysis indicated that individuals could not actually buy a fully automatic assault rifle at gun shows, although purchases of semi-automatic handguns and extended magazines remain legal without a criminal background check.^[10][11]

[Doc]

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF

Above is a Dept of Justice page of statistics. There is a lot of info there but it takes a bit of reading.

[WNYBuckHunter]

What is the "gun show loophole?" There certainly is no loophole when it comes to hand guns. You cannot buy a hand gun at a gun show, with out a valid pistol permit. I believe venders at gun shows are also required to call in back ground checks on any long gun they sell.

The only thing that may be considered a gun show loophole is when private citizens go to a a show, with a long gun that they want to sell. If you have been to a show Im sure you have seen guys walking around with long guns slung over their shoulders with prices attached somewhere on the guns.( most of these guns are antiques or collectable, not the type that criminals want) If they sell the gun to another attendee, no back ground check is done. Just like if you were to sell your shot gun another person.

This whole "gun show loophole" thing is just another distraction from the real problem which is criminals with handguns that are either stolen or purchased out of state and then illegally given to the criminal.

Actually, you cannot sell privately at a gun show in NY without a background check. This was the case BEFORE NYSAFE went into effect.

[WNYBuckHunter]

And BTW, if I were to sell my gun to another guy without a background check today, who would be the wiser? Without a complete gun registry, its a useless law.

[virgil]

Actually, you cannot sell privately at a gun show in NY without a background check. This was the case BEFORE NYSAFE went into effect.

This is a NYS law? Does that apply only to gun shows? What about sales out of the trunk of a car? What about in other states?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yes, it was a NY law. Didnt cover other private sales.

[virgil]

Yes, it was a NY law. Didnt cover other private sales.

So, undocumented after-market sales are only illegal at gun shows, but perfectly legal anywhere else in NYS? That seems bizarre to me. What is the argument in favor of keeping the after-market sales so unregulated?

[WNYBuckHunter]

My argument against it is that it basically keeps their database of firearms up to date, which is illegal to begin with. Its also basically a tax, as the shop doing the check is charging for it. On the same note, it will cost shops money to do the checks, as they are only allowed to charge $10 each to do them. Once you add the employee cost, overhead for the typical shop, they will lose money per check.

I see it for what it is, just something to discourage people to buy a gun by any means other than a shop, and it will have no effect whatsoever on those purchasing illegal guns on the black market.