just not seeing the deer

[bob]

Here it is Nov 4 and I am home on the computer. What deer I do  see are mom and twins or singles, getting decent bucks on camera only in the dark, the land I hunt on is mixture 2/3 hardwoods  1/3 pine with almost no bedding or thicket total 75 acres, and me being the only one suppose to be on it. Seems to be more of a gun spot, only reason being kicked up in the morn when guys are going in or lunch time. last year I counted 10 shots by noon and maybe another 7 by dark, that is sad, the area (9p)  grove, Dalton  of  route 70. I don't shoot does, my thinking right now is you shoot a doe your killing possible 3 deer, until the numbers get up they walk besides does bring bucks. that notion is getting less and less as the years go by.  Any body hunting in that area, or in there own areas with the same problems please write in.    thanks bob

 

[gastrodoc]

I hunt 9P also, town of Allen.  The hunting has been extremely poor the last few years for unclear reasons.  I can count on one hand the number of deer I see all bow season.  I hunt hard, practice QDM on my 175 acres, and have seen a complete downward change in deer numbers over the last 10 years. My property is great habitat with selective timber cuts every 10yrs and a nice mix of hardwoods, pines, and bramble.  The deer are just not there.   I now hunt in 8N and see plently of deer every time

[bob]

Both of you are right, I have tried several spots moving stands, getting in the stand an hour before you can see the ground. leaving at dark, it is my property had it for 8 years now. you go out and make the big investment, pay the taxes, do all kind of work on it the corn the food plots, its real hard to try to find other area, gastrodoc I used to hunt allfred bow hunt ,see deer shooter bucks at least twice a year. then you have the part about over hunting, what you think is some of the main deer routes, how much is over hunting? how much human scent can leave in an area I use the tall rubber boots, sprayed down, alittle fox urine. even went out and bought ozonics this year what deer I do see I have yet to wind me. no problem shooting a first year, or mom  but will not do

[Five Seasons]

A property that doesn't have bedding and a trespassing problem will have its issues.

How about food sources?

[bob]

this year the apple trees are loaded, the  beech dropped a real good crop of nuts, some red oak,little to no white oak, and I put in 3 acres of corn. I am guessing its not helping having over 70 acres of standing corn bellow me and god knows how much across the street. another issue is just about always seeing deer on the way in or blowing them out,in the dark, usually the flash light dose not spook them to bad. so you start thinking well should be a better afternoon spot the cameras are getting them an hour to 4 hours after dark. its like there at night and if your real lucky you will catch them moving in late morn

[NFA-ADK]

Sounds like they are bedding on or near your land.  You could try a mock scrape and or some doe in heat lure to get a possible daytime viewing.  Otherwise I would try to find where they come out in the AM and set up for that ambush if you have access to the land.  Good luck, the rut is just getting started!  They will move more during the day just to cover ground...

[ididnotvoteforobama]

I hunt 9P also, town of Allen.  The hunting has been extremely poor the last few years for unclear reasons.  I can count on one hand the number of deer I see all bow season.  I hunt hard, practice QDM on my 175 acres, and have seen a complete downward change in deer numbers over the last 10 years. My property is great habitat with selective timber cuts every 10yrs and a nice mix of hardwoods, pines, and bramble.  The deer are just not there.   I now hunt in 8N and see plently of deer every time

 

I hear you , I'm looking at the same problem in 9K ,  Conewango valley , Napoli , Cattaraugus. I too practice QDM , have food plots , selective logging  etc. I believe the biggest problems are coyotes and poaching. Gastrodoc, you are in an area with an increasing Amish population, and I'll bet you hear shooting at all hours of the day and 365 days a year.  Think about it, the Amish don't have phones to report their take ,  even if they have a license. I have talked to my Amish neighbors and they all brag about the deer that that they shoot ,all year long. About 8 yrs ago , a local jack lighted a  10 pt off the front of my property. I have no proof other than a name  ,but it constantly comes up in conversation, year after year. The local DEC and sheriffs , don't want to get involved , they say the Amish don't bother them and they won't bother the Amish. If I say anything, my house gets burned down. Its happened before, twice locally. Its frustrating as all hell , I hope something happens soon before all the deer are gone ..................

[gastrodoc]

Thats interesting.  I have heard the Amish theory multiple times from the locals.  There is an ever increasing Amish population there in 9P.  They have bought all of the old farms and many are not happy to see them there.  Whether it is coincidence or not, when the Amish started to arrive is when the deer population seemed to fall.  There are also numerous "tame deer" with collars on them that the Amish train.  I didnt believe it until I had one walk up to me in the woods with a pink collar on and eat an apple out of my hand

[ididnotvoteforobama]

My neighbor has a camp in  Birdsall and he is seeing the same thing. A few years a go he would see 10  to 20 deer on opening day , now hes lucky to see 5 . I don't know what can be done , but I just built a 2100 sq ft  custom log home on my 175 acres  and I don't want to see it up in smoke. Don't get me wrong , my amish neighbors are great honest people , just different reasons to hunt than mine.

[Jeremy K]

Let's just wait until the Amish chime in and defend themselves.

[Kludes]

Very true in amish country I see very few deer in fields or out just before dark and always said its from them shooting them like woodchucks and I believe it to be true also

[sidewinder]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm just to be sure when you say Amish are they Amish or Mennonite? and just so i have the clear picture....... is this group of people that may or not be the reason behind you not seeing deer........ the last time i checked and i am often wrong are they shooting those deer while in possesion of a nussiance (sry spelling) permit?

 

i have permission to hunt monday thru sat on a farm over in fayette (i know not area in question) that is owned by a mennonite farmer. i can shoot what ever deer i want as long as i have the tags to do so. this farmer will take deer during the course of the year but all are tagged and logged.

 

like i said i do not know everything but i am just trying to figure out the whole 2+2 still aint seeing the type of deer that i want to shoot thing.

 

best of luck to ya and im sure that sooner or later you will cross paths with a deer that meets your needs. until then enjoy your time in the field.

[bob]

well it sounds like a big combination of factors, preditors permits all summer, the only thing on the plus side for the deer is the DEC is still keeping the party permit numbers way down in that area and some others. there are some Amish moving in on route 408, not sure around were our property is, except for the flat land below along route 70 that's the only tillable land, and that's all leased out to a farmer. In my case I think the biggest factor being lack of good thick cover to hold deer (sanctuary), were area such as Alfred and Haskensville had plenty of it. funny thing about thickets and good thick pine stands they are a lot easer to get rid of them then to make them.

[Five Seasons]

this year the apple trees are loaded, the  beech dropped a real good crop of nuts, some red oak,little to no white oak, and I put in 3 acres of corn. I am guessing its not helping having over 70 acres of standing corn bellow me and god knows how much across the street. another issue is just about always seeing deer on the way in or blowing them out,in the dark, usually the flash light dose not spook them to bad. so you start thinking well should be a better afternoon spot the cameras are getting them an hour to 4 hours after dark. its like there at night and if your real lucky you will catch them moving in late morn

 

standing corn saves a lot of deer. the difference is night and day when they leave it up versus cutting here. no reason to leave the safety and food corn provides.

[bob]

AREAS THAT LARGE OF STANDING CORN NOT GREAT, WONT GET CUT TILL MAYBE SECOND WEEK OF GUN. USED TO SEE MORE ACTIVITY ON THE PROPERTY WHEN THE FIELDS BELOW ME WERE ALFALFA AND COVER CROPS. SO YOU TAKE A TOP HUNTING STATE LIKE IOWA , HUGE OCEANS OF CORN, ANYWERE THATS TILLABLE ITS CORN, SOYBEAN, THE MAJORITY OF THAT IS CUT BY THE 3RD WEEK IN OCTOBER. AGAIN DEPENDING ON THE DRY CONDITIONS. VERY SMALL WOODLOTS HEDGEROWS, ALL THEY REALLY ARE ISLANDS IN THE CORN MAYBE 5- 10 ACRE WOODLOTS CORN GETS CUT BINGO PATTERN THE DEER. OH WELL THATS HUNTING, NOT TOO MANY HUNTING VIDEOS ARE FILMED IN N.Y., YOU GET A DEER HERE WHAT EVER SEX OR SIZE TO ME YOUR DOING SOME THING RIGHT AND SHOULD BE PROUD, THE CONDITIONS ARE NOT EASY TO SAY THE LEAST. I DONT MEAN THE MIDWEST STATES ARE YOU HUNT THEM YOU COME HOME WITH A 140 CLASS EVERY TIME, BUT I DO THINK THEY CAN BE A LITTLE MORE HUNTER FRIENDLY

[Five Seasons]

please stop yelling bob.

[ididnotvoteforobama]

please stop yelling bob.

 

Ouch, no these are Amish not Mennonites,  there are no nuisance permits. I have asked many locals about that. I don't think the DEC has a clue as to how many deer are taken in 9k, legally or otherwise. If they are taken legally , I know they are not reported.

I heard shots this morning at 6:15 , barely able to see anything,  2 shots from a rifle.

The majority of the deer that I have taken here over the last 12 yrs have been gun shot  wounded deer ,4 shot in the hind quarters and gut shots. A few years back during bow season , nov 4 to be exact, I saw an amish kid shoot a doe  from the property line , the deer hunched up as it ran under me, the kid didn't see me or try to track it .I found it the next morning , still warm ,next to the  creek in front of my house. I tagged it so it wouldn't go to waste.

[BUCKANDAQUARTER]

Ouch, no these are Amish not Mennonites,  there are no nuisance permits. I have asked many locals about that. I don't think the DEC has a clue as to how many deer are taken in 9k, legally or otherwise. If they are taken legally , I know they are not reported.

I heard shots this morning at 6:15 , barely able to see anything,  2 shots from a rifle.

The majority of the deer that I have taken here over the last 12 yrs have been gun shot  wounded deer ,4 shot in the hind quarters and gut shots. A few years back during bow season , nov 4 to be exact, I saw an amish kid shoot a doe  from the property line , the deer hunched up as it ran under me, the kid didn't see me or try to track it .I found it the next morning , still warm ,next to the  creek in front of my house. I tagged it so it wouldn't go to waste.

You can call DEC and tell them about the mercy kill or dead find and they will issue a new tag for you.

[bubba]

We have the amish problem here also.  I have taught the hunter ed class for 25 years and have had a handful in my classes over the years.  Since they moved into the area, the deer population has dwindled.  A few years a conservation officer was tipped off and he found 27 deer in one barn no tags.  they also shot a moose that was moving through the area about 15 years ago.  

[132 eight pointer]

2 co-workers hunt from camps in 9p near English Hill.They both complain of lack of deer sightings.Don't forget there are more coyotes and bear around there now too.How many deer are killed by other animals I wouldn't know but it possibly could be another contributing factor.

[notasheep]

My camp is also in Allen.All thru the 90's here in 9p you could get 3 dmp permits per hunter,deer were everywhere.at our camp 5 of us would throw10-15 permits in the woodstove.hunters were killing deer two at a time.well now after years of mismanagement and irresponsibility those chickens have come home to roost.add to that more hunting pressure....bad times.

[G-Man]

Most judges won't go after subsistence farmers... all you can do is make your property the most attractive to game and post the crap out of it and file charges every time you catch someone on it.. had a friend who's fish were all taken (Amish by the buggy tracks) dropped a tree across the road they were using(old abandoned Rd used and kept clear as logging trail.) Posted it up and caught a couple...no more problem and fish slowly coming back.