Traffic stops/deer checks?

[steve863]

We hear about that 14 pointer more often than most of us guys change our socks.  Then again Geno wouldn't know a damn thing about changing socks since he hunts barefooted in flip-flops.  LOL

 

 

 

 

[jjb4900]

Happens 2 or three times a year. We have just learned to ignore it or he pulls out the entire story.I've heard it so many times I feel like I was there.

that could be the reason they stopped doing them.........after hearing him tell the story they decided it wasn't worth it.

[Geno C]

LMAO i did... nah JK! i bought that mount at a garage sale

admit it, you just used that as a chance to tell us you got  a 14 pointer.......  

 

 

Happens 2 or three times a year. We have just learned to ignore it or he pulls out the entire story.I've heard it so many times I feel like I was there.

 

lol omg.. hate you.. im LMAO right now

[Geno C]

that could be the reason they stopped doing them.........after hearing him tell the story they decided it wasn't worth it.

 

 

they were like screw this, he keeps telling us the same damn story... pack it in guys we are done with these checks, geno keeps pulling in every year and half the time he has nothing to report but that old a** story lol

[jjb4900]

But back to the original topic, down here on L.I., deer checks seem to be just that, deer checks.......I have never had a ECO ask to see my gun or bow, ask to search my vehicle or look for anything to screw with me about, most of the interaction is with Biologists. 

[shawnhu]

I've got dollars. Let's go!!!! @@

Where I go, they don't take dollars.

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[Berniez]

Harassment???  LOL about 10 years ago before I moved upstate full time I got stopped  driving to Jersey at 8pm on Rt 28 in Shandaken.  I was dressed in regular clothes.  The DEC guy asked how we did. I said “no luck.”

Then he asked me for my hunting license.  I told him that my license is at the farmhouse on my hunting clothes. As I only hunt on my property I have no need to have my license on me now.  He told me the law says I am supposed to show it when asked.  I said I do but I am driving on RT 28 not hunting.  If I was hunting I need to have my license on me but I am not hunting.  I am just driving on a public road following all the laws. NY has no laws requiring a hunting license to transport rifles and mine are cased, locked and in the trunk. He said I need to carry it on me at “ALL TIMES”.  I said “So when your home in bed where do you carry yours?  How do you keep it dry in the shower?”  He said “that’s stupid show me your license”.  Again I told him I am not hunting but driving and since I am driving, I would be glad to show you my driver’s license.  You have no reason to suspect me of any wildlife infraction and I am answering all your questions.

We did this dance for about 5 minutes.  I asked him if he was married.  He said yes.  I asked to see his marriage license. I said you’re married all the time and by that logic you need to carry that license on your person.  Again, he insisted he needed to see my hunting license.  Finally I told him “Ok officer I’ll pull over and jump in your car. YOU can DRIVE me the 150 mile round trip to the farm. I am not wasting money on gas for something this stupid.  Tell your supervisor you’ll be back in about 3 hours.” That stopped him in his tracks and after a few seconds he said, “Well you need to show an officer your license when asked.”

“When you see me hunting you can and I will be glad to show you. Have a good evening.” and drove away.   

They have a job to stop wildlife infractions…..however allowing them to go beyond a certain line is just stupid.

As Sam Adams said,” Those who would give up Essential Liberty ... deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

[jjb4900]

Harassment???  LOL about 10 years ago before I moved upstate full time I got stopped  driving to Jersey at 8pm on Rt 28 in Shandaken.  I was dressed in regular clothes.  The DEC guy asked how we did. I said “no luck.”

Then he asked me for my hunting license.  I told him that my license is at the farmhouse on my hunting clothes. As I only hunt on my property I have no need to have my license on me now.  He told me the law says I am supposed to show it when asked.  I said I do but I am driving on RT 28 not hunting.  If I was hunting I need to have my license on me but I am not hunting.  I am just driving on a public road following all the laws. NY has no laws requiring a hunting license to transport rifles and mine are cased, locked and in the trunk. He said I need to carry it on me at “ALL TIMES”.  I said “So when your home in bed where do you carry yours?  How do you keep it dry in the shower?”  He said “that’s stupid show me your license”.  Again I told him I am not hunting but driving and since I am driving, I would be glad to show you my driver’s license.  You have no reason to suspect me of any wildlife infraction and I am answering all your questions.

We did this dance for about 5 minutes.  I asked him if he was married.  He said yes.  I asked to see his marriage license. I said you’re married all the time and by that logic you need to carry that license on your person.  Again, he insisted he needed to see my hunting license.  Finally I told him “Ok officer I’ll pull over and jump in your car. YOU can DRIVE me the 150 mile round trip to the farm. I am not wasting money on gas for something this stupid.  Tell your supervisor you’ll be back in about 3 hours.” That stopped him in his tracks and after a few seconds he said, “Well you need to show an officer your license when asked.”

“When you see me hunting you can and I will be glad to show you. Have a good evening.” and drove away.   

They have a job to stop wildlife infractions…..however allowing them to go beyond a certain line is just stupid.

As Sam Adams said,” Those who would give up Essential Liberty ... deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

good story, but now I need a nap..........

[raymerlo]

still wondering about the ticket for possession of a rimfire .22 cal rifle in shotgun county,FYI you can and

could have been hunting small game,i use a o/u 20 gauge and a .22 mag when I deer hunt,carry shot shells

just don't shoot a deer with the ,22 or shot shells,perfectly legal,rabbits,squirrels and pheasant still open

 

[shawnhu]

still wondering about the ticket for possession of a rimfire .22 cal rifle in shotgun county,FYI you can and

could have been hunting small game,i use a o/u 20 gauge and a .22 mag when I deer hunt,carry shot shells

just don't shoot a deer with the ,22 or shot shells,perfectly legal,rabbits,squirrels and pheasant still open

It was a possession of a rifle in a rifle county. Go figure.

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[Jennifer]

I think they have opted for the visiting the butchers route. They probably collect more data and expend less manhours to do it. I havent seen a check in 5 or 6 years.

 

Very true. The DEC has had a lot of funding cut since I was there. My relative worked there nearly her whole life... retired this year... and she said she was getting out 'just in time'. Sad.

[russellbrook]

Pertinent to "traffic stops:"

 

Court Limits Questioning of Motorists by the Police By J. DAVID GOODMAN Published: December 18, 2012

Police officers in New York may not ask drivers or passengers during a routine traffic stop whether they have a gun or any other weapon unless the officers have a “founded suspicion” of some criminal behavior, the state’s highest court said in a decision released on Tuesday.

 

The ruling by the Court of Appeals upholds lower court decisions and comes against the backdrop of a roiling debate over how the police deal with the public in encounters both on the street and on the side of the highway.

But experts cautioned that Tuesday’s decision, which formally extends to car stops an already rigorous state protocol for police encounters with pedestrians, was likely to have little effect on a pending federal lawsuit challenging stop-and-frisk procedures.

The state judges ruled that without a “founded suspicion” of criminal behavior, officers cannot ask pointed questions that imply criminal activity, like “Where are the drugs?” or “Do you have a weapon?”

 

MORE at:  http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/19/nyregion/court-upholds-ruling-limiting-police-queries-during-traffic-stops.html?_r=0

[russellbrook]

Your Rights & What To Do At A Roadblock

Roadblocks are usually established in locations that prevent easy avoidance, offer ample parking for interrogating suspected law violators and issuing tickets, and usually in places and during times that will not cause serious traffic tie ups, although there have certainly been exceptions.

The stated purposes of roadblocks are usually legalized excuses to stop and scrutinize motorists for which there would otherwise be no reason to do so. These excuses include "sobriety checks," license and registration verification, possession of insurance, proof of citizenship, and seatbelt usage.

The desired effect is to establish a sense of fear and intimidation among the population. The pity is that it works, as far as the "desired effect" is concerned.

Even if the courts disallow roadblocks for certain purposes, e.g. the recent cases prohibiting roadblocks from being used to identify drug users or couriers, the enforcement agencies just claim another purpose for the roadblocks and it's business as usual. The courts have gone out of their way to allow the police great latitude in what they can do, once they have you stopped and under their control.

The point of the above discussion is to suggest that you engage the roadblock process from the standpoint that the current courts find them legal and a legitimate law enforcement tactic. Therefore, there is little to gain by launching into a tirade over the constitutionality of roadblocks, at least while you are stopped at one.

However, this is not to say that all your rights are null and void once you enter a roadblock.

First, the police do not have the authority to search you or your vehicle, not without probable cause that you have, or are committing a crime. They may ask your permission for a search — which means they do not have legal grounds to force a search.

Never permit a voluntary search of your person or your vehicle. The police may try to cajole you into permitting a search. The old ruse, "if you don't have anything to hide, why object to a search?" should be ignored, or met with a response that you value your right to privacy and do not consent to a search of your vehicle.

If, under any set of circumstances, the police force a search of your vehicle, assume the worse case scenario. If they can't find anything illegal in your vehicle, they may place something in your vehicle that will justify their search.

This is a sad commentary on the state of affairs, but these events should be expected in a society that employs police state tactics to intimidate common citizens.

Often, an involuntary search is preceded by another form of search, the once-over by the urban myth known as the infallible drug sniffing dog. Old Bowser can be relied upon to find drugs anyplace the police want to find drugs. (Yes, the dogs can detect drugs, but they can be easily manipulated or tricked into "sensing" drugs where no drugs exist, at least prior to the roadblock stop.)

Most people are so relieved to be allowed to leave after the harrowing experience of having their car ravaged that they never consider launching a civil suit against the police department.

If the police are persistent about searching your vehicle, you should be equally persistent in demanding that they specify what illegal item they are looking for and why they think you have it in your vehicle. If they cannot come up with plausible answers to these questions, they do not have legal grounds to even consider searching your car.

The courts allow the police to detain drivers for further interrogation, but not for indefinite lengths of time.

The courts seem to tolerate 20 minutes of harassment and intimidation and consider that tolerable for a suspected criminal. However, unless you ask to leave, the courts have said the police are under no obligation to tell you that you can leave. You have to ask, "Am I free to go?"

If the police do not have defensible grounds to further detain you, they have to let you leave.

There is no greater symbol of a society having lost its bearings than the "sobriety roadblock." It is universally admitted that roadblocks apprehend very few drunk drivers, far fewer than the same allocation of resources could apprehend during regular patrols.

Again, the purposes are intimidation, using the stops as a pretence to look for other criminal activity, and to garner public relations points as a "get tough on drunk drivers" agency.

DWI roadblocks are usually set up at night and can be quite unnerving with the bright lights, orchestrated show of force, and flashlights thrust in drivers' faces. All the previous comments about searches are applicable to DWI roadblocks. Also, you should not allow any penetration of your vehicle's interior space, that includes sticking a flashlight (often contains an alcohol sensor) through your window.

You can be required to show the usual documentation, such as your driver's license, but you do not have to open your window any further than the space to hand it out. You do not have to answer questions about where you have been or where you are going, whether or not you have been drinking or what items are contained in your car.

If you are ordered out of your car, lock the door behind you.

You do not have to perform any feats of balance, answer quiz questions, or recite the alphabet. In fact we recommend that you respectfully decline to do any of these things.

A so-called field sobriety test is conducted for one reason only — to develop probable cause to arrest you for drunk driving. You can not pass a field sobriety test, no matter how sober or gifted you are. If the police believe they have probable cause to charge you with drunk driving, they can coerce you to take some form of breath or chemical test to determine your blood alcohol content. You can refuse, but the penalties for refusal are often as severe as a DWI conviction.

When you are first approached at a DWI roadblock, open your window slightly and wait for the officer to make his statement or ask his questions. If he simply offers the canned explanation for the stop and asks to see your license, have it ready to hand to him.

If he asks any further questions, you should politely decline to enter into a discussion. Something like; "officer, I really don't approve of roadblocks and I don't care to discuss my affairs" should suffice. If the officer persists, ask for the return of your license and ask if you may leave.

It's important not to answer any questions, no matter how harmless. Your willingness to answer some questions, but not others, will raise suspicion. Worse yet is to give incriminating answers to seemingly routine questions.

If you set the stage in a manner that it is clear you are not going to answer questions, period, there can be no defensible reason for detaining you, based on what you said.

Just answer every question with "I don't wish to discuss my affairs, may I leave now?" By law, you are not obligated to answer these kinds of questions and you cannot be detained because you refuse to chit-chat with the officers at a roadblock.

If you have the time, the courage, and the confidence to verbally express your displeasure with being stopped at a roadblock, please do so. It would be a nice change of pace!

- See more at: http://www.roadblock.org/rights/#sthash.J2gPRmIn.dpuf

 

Edited November 11, 2013 by russellbrook

[Hamma53]

There was a Dec/nYPD deer checkpoint at throgs neck bridge on sunday 11/b16. I havent seen a checkpoint there for 20 years. Problem as I see it is having guns in NYC. Especially pistols, but all guns can be an issue. Passing thru is a problem if you stop.

[The_Real_TCIII]

Man Refuses to Answer Questions at CA Checkpoint, Drives Away

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=45430

they spelled "Hero" wrong in the headline

[Dave]

Throgs Neck? really never seen that

 

usually they are on a semi-busy town road just outside of state land. like Rt 206 near roscoe, NY reason being bear spring mountain is right near there

 

You are right i got stopped on 206 heading to Roscoe. They checked all my guns and tags on my deer meat. That was the last weekend of deer season.

 

[fasteddie]

Several years ago I stopped at the DEC in Avon to have them check out my deer . I had a doe that had a 40" girth . It was the biggest doe I had ever shot . The DEC guy inside wanted to know what was wrong with the deer and I told him nothing but I would like it checked out . I think I interupted his nap . Anyway , he came out checked the teeth and measured the girth at 41" . He said "hey , nice doe" and went back in . I never stopped again since it wasn't mandatory .

[jrm]

I'm just saying, what if one lied to a LEO and said no, when in fact they do have guns, legally. Ops lie to get information all the time, I don't see why citizens can't. Perhaps you can be charged with some type of interfering of an investigation.

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I admit I cannot back up the following claim with a link or legitimate reference. From everything I have looked at on the topic I am told over and over that it is a crime to lie to a police officer. However, it is not a crime for them to lie to you.

 

If you ARE in possession of a gun and lie about it to a police officer I would bet that you are in for a boatload of trouble.

[jrm]

if you and your deer is legal then no big deal

 

Rather than add to the "constitutional" argument on this (and I agree that roadblock/stops are a blatant violation of rights) look at it this way...

 

You are driving home from the Catskills to Long Island. Normally a 3-3.5 hour drive. 

 

Tonight you hit a massive backup that adds another hour to your trip. The goon squad is running a roadblock at the bridge. Since they are sooooo important, they set it up in a way to disrupt the maximum amount of traffic, closing a few lanes. Probably also get some help from the MTA police, meaning there are fewer toll lanes in operation and things bog down even more.

 

That adds an hour onto EVERYONE'S trip. Hunters and non-hunters alike.

 

Now you get pulled over to this checkpoint. This is the "price you pay" for having an NRA sticker on your bumper or simply driving a pickup instead of a toyota camry.

 

Add another 30-60 minutes onto your trip.

 

You also have to understand how roadblocks work in NYC/Long Island. SOMEONE has to get paid. That means they keep looking until they find SOMETHING to write a ticket for. Doesn't matter how legit the ticket is - they have quotas to meet. I sometimes think these guys work on commission.

 

So you have just wasted 1-2 hours in traffic and came away with a ticket that could cost several hundred dollars (for a bogus or non-existent violation). Things only get worse if you actually have a legitimate violation of some kind.

 

That's the big deal. And that's without even going down the 4th amendment road.

 

It is a money making scheme and nothing more.

 

A few years back they would put up "seat belt" roadblocks on Long Island. They would block a very busy highway onramp at a key rush hour time. Then they would move to a key off-ramp to catch everyone as they arrived at their offices. If didn't take long for folks to realize what was going on... extra 1/2 hour to get on at your usual entrance and an extra 1/2 hour to get off at your destination. So 99% of people made sure they had their seatbelt on while waiting in line. That meant the cops had fewer tickets to issue, so they started getting creative.

 

I was told to pull over once. Before I did so, I asked "why." Copy responded "seat belt." I pointed to my properly worn seatbelt. He told me "pull over anyway." Once pulled over I was told "My Sgt is watching - since I pulled you over I have to write a ticket for something." Without asking for a seeing my valid insurance card, he wrote me a ticket for driving uninsured. I had to take a day off, go to traffic court and produce documentation proving I had insurance (they don't accept the insurance card in court - I had to get a certified letter from my insurance company.

 

Thirty plus wasted minutes trying to get to work, being late for work, losing a day of work to fight a bogus ticket in court.... while the putz who wrote the ticket is getting paid >$100k/year plus great benefits.

 

So yes, despite being completely "legal" I think it is a very big deal.

[Short Track Hunter]

If they pull you over with NO deer, can they check your hunting licenses ??

What if I have my brothers back tags with me, and my brother is not in the car ???

What if I have my brothers DMP's, and they are not signed over properly ??

What if I'm carrying bear spray on the Throgs Neck Bridge ? (NYC) (I can't shoot bear where I hunt, so I spray them away)

Edited November 18, 2014 by Short Track Hunter

[upstate]

If they pull you over with NO deer, can they check your hunting licenses ??

What if I have my brothers back tags with me, and my brother is not in the car ???

What if I have my brothers DMP's, and they are not signed over properly ??

What if I'm carrying bear spray on the Throgs Neck Bridge ? (NYC) (I can't shoot bear where I hunt, so I spray them away)

 

 

 

Yes, they can ask but it's up to you as to whether you want to cooperate. 

 

 

Possession of another persons license or back tags (other than properly transferred DMP) is a violation on each item. 

 

 

See above

 

 

I'm not sure what the law is on this, perhaps you could spray the LEO? 

Edited November 18, 2014 by upstate