A Twist on ARs

[aqua750]

it has nothing to do with deer populations or deer hunting but everything to do with insurance company pay offs and albany money plain and simple

[SteveB]

it has nothing to do with deer populations or deer hunting but everything to do with insurance company pay offs and albany money plain and simple

 

Please post any real proof of insurance companies taking action to have more deer killed because of "loss's".

I ask every time someone makes this claim and have never seen a response with proof.

 

If you understand even the basics of car insurance you would know they make the same money in high collision area's as they do in low. They just charge more for coverage in the high ones.

[bubba]

Gotta love when people post how they have the solution for the whole state when they have no clue how things are in the whole state.  I am lucky to get a dmp every 5 years in my area and if I see 25 deer in a season, I am happy.  Now you want me to shoot nothing but young does and button bucks.  Ok I guess I buy my license and stay home then because I can not shoot either.  I depend on the muzzleloader for a deer because it is either sex.  I am sure you are behind your theories, but that is all they are.  Most of which have been debunked and proven no improvement. The average hunter does not take the time to age and check out which deer are inferior or superior.  Hell read the stories on here about the multi shot attempts at them. I and I am sure many others do not need the state or some theorist to tell me what I can shoot legally.  I have 450 acres of private land to hunt surrounded by private land.  If you really think you can manage that the way you think, good luck. I personally do let small bucks walk and limit doe take during archery and muzzleloading.  I have seen my population get a little better.  I do this not because I think shooting smaller bucks is wrong or bad for the herd.  i do this as a personal choice.But when I watch them walk 15 minutes later I hear boom on the neighbors property. Now if a young hunter who has never taken a deer comes to camp, anything legal is fine.   I read these posts about 1.5 superior bucks etc and I think of all the hunting shows where they sit in the stand for 3 minutes telling you all about a deer they just saw to include what it ate for lunch,  Yeah right.  Canned hunts are just that canned hunts  If you truly want to make hunting better go pout and enjoy it for what it is, not what you want to make it into.  What you do in your area is your business.  What I do on mine is the same.  

[bubba]

Oops I forgot I also plant 10 to 12 acres of food plots depending on who you ask.  There is tons of summer food so I planted soybeans and sugar beets.  This helps them through the winter where most of my damage is done by winter kill and coyotes.  You want to have a good deer herd eliminate the coyotes more than anything.  They get a lot of the spring fawns

[dhuntley2]

Don't take this personally but if you are only seeing 25 deer on 450 acres your habitat is in need of a major makeover.  I never once said you should shoot button bucks so I don't know where you are getting that from.  My whole point was if we are going to have a statewide AR, which I think we will, I would want the 5 point and up 1.5 year olds living to another year than to have the spike and crotch horns living to another year.  And to all the guys that don't get dmps I do feel bad for you. In places like 6a where no or a few dmps were given out, yet the big dairy farms are still getting upwards of a 100 nuisance permits. That makes no sense to me, give one land owner 100 permits and make all the other hunters suffer. And on some of these farms guys pay to hunt and they can't come back if they do not fill all the tags, no wonder why the deer population is suffering.  On our farm we used to get 15 nuisance permits and 6 dmps.  Now we just get the dmps because we realized that taking that many does is just stupid.  I agree that it should be a choice of hunters on what kind of deer they want to take.  I used to shoot 1.5 year old bucks when I first started hunting when I was 12.  And around where I hunt it was the norm to shoot whatever buck you saw, I was young and had no idea what a mature buck was.  When I was 20, 5 year ago, I realized that shooting 1.5 and 2.5 year old bucks was not hard, actually it was really easy where I hunt.  So we started a management program where the buck had to be an 8 point or better, and I personally made my choice to shoot 3.5 year olds or older. I have not shot a buck off our farm in 5 years, and I have learned a lot in these 5 years.  Every year there will be roughly 15 to 20 1.5 year old bucks and about 5 to 8 2.5 year old bucks before the season starts. All of those 2.5 year old bucks get shot by neighbors guaranteed, and all but 5 to 8 1.5 year olds will bet shot. It has been the same pattern for 5 years.  It is a choice that I make personally to try and hunt a more mature buck, and these last 5 years have been the best hunting that I have had.   

[PostedBoys Gallego]

Do you not realize that the deer population varies greatly depending on what part of the state and terrain you hunt? Maybe you should start hunting public lands in the Catskills and Adirondacks for a few years and then decide on whether or not the entire state should have the same AR in place. Be warned you might have to revert to hunting like a 12 year old to get some meat.

You also need to understand that although media and current hunting shows are all about trophy hunting mature bucks, which is fine, its not how everyone hunts. Not everyone has the time or resources to put into hunting a mature buck. And as you know, not everyone hunts in farms where you can just go out and shoot a Doe if you want meat. Some of us have only really tough low density and pressured places to hunt. Farm rules do not apply.

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[dhuntley2]

Yes I do realize that deer population varies with location. I hunt in the Adirondacks as well as on our farm in pierrepont, which is in the foothills of the ADKs. I have seen the biggest buck of my life while hunting in the ADKs so what should I realize about that ? I think you need to read through the posts again. I am NOT for ARs I just fear that we will have a statewide AR and one that will be the worst their is. I was just throwing out an alternative that I doubt many have thought about.

[bubba]

Do not take this personally , but you are clueless when it comes to my area and I am guessing most areas.  .  Me seeing 25 deer is more than most do in my area.  You may want to get the facts before you start telling me how t run my property.

[dhuntley2]

Well unless it is a 450 acre wetland I am sure their is a lot of habitat improvement that could be done to hold a lot more deer on your land.

[bubba]

I did not realize you were so close to me, but you are still clueless. Let me come to your farm in Canton and see all these deer you boast about.  I am also in St Lawrence county.  I can hunt in the brasher area and see tons of deer and at my place I see less.  State wide ar will never happen.  In the first place the state is not in favor of it and a few elite will never get it through.  I hunted in south colton for many years and saw very few deer.  Now there are more there too.  AR did not do that.  My land is in 6c and I get a permit every 5 years or so and usually do not fill it unless a young hunter shows up and I sign it over. I do not claim land owner status never did.  To me it seems like a privilege because I own a piece of land.  I do not need it to control my population. How are you getting 6 dmp's in a restricted area?  On that I gotta call BS.  Only one per land owner and no way 5 other guys get one every year.  And also according to DEC only 2 farms in st lawrence county got nuisance permits this year.  You did not stop them DEC did. My land is between dekalb and gouverneur near trout lake.  If you call Pierrepont the foot hills of the daks, that sure is a stretch.  So if the neighbors shoot all the young bucks, what are you accomplishing?  Not a thing.  stop watching Michael Waddell and go enjoy yourself.  If you really think you can out do Mother nature you are mistaken.  I do not hunt farm land.  I do not sit on a field and watch deer in it. I am in the woods in the swamps.  I do not hunt over my food plots.  To me that is not hunting.  I do a lot of still hunting and some sitting.  We do very few drives on my land.  There is adequate food cover water and arrangement.  My deer herd is very healthy for my area.  I work hard and spend money to keep it that way.  

Edited November 24, 2013 by bubba

[dhuntley2]

Everyone gets a land owner dmp so yes we get six. And we did stop getting the nuassense permits we did not fill out the paper work. Maybe they don't call them nuassense permits anymore buy the farmers get them and they get a lot. the reason arnt getting bigger deer is because our habitat sucks. It is all open woods. We are now doing habitat improvement to be able to hold more deer. Things like tsi hinge cutting and planting conifers.

[bubba]

How do six people get a dmp on the same land.  Only one owner can claim the piece of property.

[bubba]

and as I said the dec them selves say only 2 farmers got them. One in the morristown area and one in madrid area.  That is public knowledge they can give you at the dec office outside canton.  poachers predators and other natural occurances control this.  Man never will. 

[dhuntley2]

Yes we split it up everyone in my family has 50 acres to claim for land owner. And I guess I worded my post badly about the ADKs I hunt in 6f which is in the ADKs the hunting on the farm is not. And like you say it is a completely different deer density but a lot of it is because it is all mature forest. Their is hardly any browse for the deer at all.

[dhuntley2]

Also I think they call the tags doe management tags and I know for a fact that farmers in canton have near 100 and farms all around have 50 or more . Web used to get 15 and they are doe management not nuisance permits. Sorry about the mix up.

[dhuntley2]

Finally found the real name of the tags. They are Deer management assistance program permits or d maps.

[dhuntley2]

Finally found the real name of the tags. They are Deer management assistance program permits or d maps.

[bubba]

I know what they are and I know dec only gave them to two farms in st law county

[jjb4900]

Damage Permits and DMAP tags are two different things..are they not?

[dhuntley2]

Yes they are crop damage permits.

[dhuntley2]

And I just called a farmer friend in parishville they got 50

[dhuntley2]

And I just called a farmer friend in parishville they got 50

[cdmckane]

You can get a buck or a doe with last years unused regular season tag during early bow.

only before October 1

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