Sea world (Blackfish)

[Doc]

Anybody have any idea what this fiasco at the Florida Sea World is all about? I keep getting some very vague news reports about some kind of animal rights campaign that has some fairly high-powered  singers cowering after being coerced to cancel performances at sea world. Apparently somewhere involved in the middle of all this is some movie entitled "Black Fish" that chronicles the death of a whale trainer at Sea World, with what looks like a whole lot of animal rights editorializing included. It sounds like there has been an internet campaign begun to sign petitions and apply pressure to performers that has caused them to cancel engagements there.

 

Like I say, it is a bit confusing because news coverage focuses more on the entertainers than it does on the events leading up to this internet pressure campaign.

 

My primary interest, given my slight understanding of the situation, is that it appears to be a large victory for the animal rights crowd that has brought one of their causes into the public, and it has found resonance with a large chunk of the people. And of course as a hunter, I do get a bit concerned when these wackos start making headway with the general public on anything.

 

So I just thought that maybe somebody here has a better grasp of the details of the situation.

[Doewhacker]

Couldn't you just spend some time reading new's stories on the subject? It has been covered a bunch outside of what singers have canceled.

 

It involves some shady dealings and a big lawsuit, look into it.

[Doc]

Of course I tried, but the news stories that I read said nothing about any lawsuits or shady dealings and talked only about the internet campaign coercing singers to cancel their performances. The only reasons given was a reaction to this movie entitled "Blackfish" that implied animal abuse relative to the performing whales. Apparently you have seen something that the several sites that I consulted did not have. And that is the reason I asked. Sorry if I inconvenienced you in some way.

[d-bone20917]

I haven't watched the documentary yet but I plan to.  It chronicles the life of the whale that killed the trainer all the way back to when it was captured and shows how poorly sea world treats its animals.  Now that people know what conditions these intelligent animals are kept in they are choosing not to support that company.  So why do you think people are whackos for not wanting animals stuck in a cage and treated poorly?  It has nothing to do with hunting free range animals and your comments seem very ignorant.   

[nyslowhand]

All started with CNN's documentary Blackfish. Film's focus is on one single Killer Whale, its' captivity and fatalities he caused at SeaWorld facilities. Like all CNN's special reports, basically trying to envoke controversy. May be able to DVR it, probably being repeated late nights on CNN.

[Doewhacker]

Doc come on, you didn't see anything about the trainer's death and Federal ban on trainer contact ect ect? Or about how Seaworld knew of problems with the Whale's behavior yet kept the shows going on and kept it int he breeding program.

 

Or why don't you check the movie out and see what its about? I haven't and I don't care to.

[phade]

Maybe there are legit problems with SeaWorld and this whale and the process/practices they have. But, it's been sensationalized by CNN. No different than Newtown (not in stature but in practice).

 

The music impact is that most of these groups were scheduled to perform at SeaWorld or had their music played during the whale shows. They've cancelled or requested their music not be associated with the show.

[First-light]

Watch "Blackfish" and make your own judgement. A lot is coming out because of this movie, it was just a matter of time though.

[phade]

I haven't watched the documentary yet but I plan to.  It chronicles the life of the whale that killed the trainer all the way back to when it was captured and shows how poorly sea world treats its animals.  Now that people know what conditions these intelligent animals are kept in they are choosing not to support that company.  So why do you think people are whackos for not wanting animals stuck in a cage and treated poorly?  It has nothing to do with hunting free range animals and your comments seem very ignorant.   

 

Isn't it ignorant to have a prejudice without seeing the movie? I mean, what if that movie is biased and blabs out facts that twist the truth or something in favor of HSUS or animal rights people? It may or may not, but it's equally ignorant to have that prejudice as you think Doc may have on the other side of the fence without even seeing it.

 

I don't know what my thoughts are on it, personally, other than its a slippery slope. Whales, then Silverbacks, then chimps, then next thing you know, that Goldfish in your kid's room is paroled for being a fish.

[d-bone20917]

All started with CNN's documentary Blackfish. Film's focus is on one single Killer Whale, its' captivity and fatalities he caused at SeaWorld facilities. Like all CNN's special reports, basically trying to envoke controversy. May be able to DVR it, probably being repeated late nights on CNN.

 

It isn't a CNN documentary, but it was shown on CNN.  The DVD is available.   

 

http://blackfishmovie.com/

Edited December 18, 2013 by d-bone20917

[d-bone20917]

Isn't it ignorant to have a prejudice without seeing the movie? I mean, what if that movie is biased and blabs out facts that twist the truth or something in favor of HSUS or animal rights people? It may or may not, but it's equally ignorant to have that prejudice as you think Doc may have on the other side of the fence without even seeing it.

 

Absolutely.  I'm ignorant too which is why I'll hold back any stupid comments on people being whackos until I see it.  I have however talked to several people that have seen it and know the basics as to what its about. 

[Elmo]

I'm not for or against keeping Killer Whales and Dolphins for our entertainment benefits.  I'll just say that these intelligent animals are not like goldfish that are content living in a small confined space.  Their brains are advanced enough that if they don't have enough room to keep themselves happy and occupied, they will go crazy.

[Doc]

First off, the wacko comment is about any of the animal rights groups, and I will not apologize for that opinion of those people. I have zero tolerance for any of their views. Secondly, While a lot of people write these people off as ineffective and a joke, I do see them making headway with the public, and anytime I see things of this nature, yes, it does concern me. And so, not being able to find details behind this story I thought that maybe somebody here may have run into what all the hub-bub was all about. It sounds like there are not a whole lot of people that know much more about it than me. I'm always keeping an eye on these animal rights activities because I think they are worthy of keeping an eye on. And, I really do not change my views based on species.

[Elmo]

My point regarding dolphins and killer whales in captivity is that you need to understand the species and treat them accordingly.  I own a small apartment in NYC and that's why I have a tiny Maltese.  I would not get a Siberian Husky that needs large spaces to run unless I own a house with a back yard.  You don't have to be a tree hugger to call me inhumane if I got a Siberian Husky and kept it locked up in a small room.  And I shouldn't be shocked to come home and find my coaches ripped up and pee and poop every where.  A Husky will simply go crazy locked up in small spaces.  Killer Whales and Dolphins are like the Siberian Husky of the ocean world.  If you are going to keep one you can't expect to put it in a small fish bowl like a goldfish and act surprised when it loses it one day.

[Daveboone]

When a teenager (crud...35 years ag0) we went to Marine Land in Canada, where they had trained orcas. My whole family was disgusted by the situation- huge intelligent animals kept penned up in a literal (to them) fish bowl. From what I have seen, times haven't changed much. I am very leery of animal rights activists, but I don't think keeping orcas (I guess I should with an open mind say wild caught orcas)is very smart or humane.

[Woodjr55]

When a teenager (crud...35 years ag0) we went to Marine Land in Canada, where they had trained orcas. My whole family was disgusted by the situation- huge intelligent animals kept penned up in a literal (to them) fish bowl. From what I have seen, times haven't changed much. I am very leery of animal rights activists, but I don't think keeping orcas (I guess I should with an open mind say wild caught orcas)is very smart or humane.

marine land is the worst. They had a number of whales a few years ago but they kept dying. Seaworld actually went in and took one if there whales back. They also are breaking a law because they only have one whale and that is against some law they have

[Doc]

Is it therefore inhumane to keep cheetahs, lions, tigers, bears, primates, etc. in cages in a zoo? Are we prone to pick and choose what critters we get all teary-eyed over just because of their public relations benefactors have been more successful in building sympathy. I mean, we have been sold on the intellect of these things to the point where we think they are almost human in emotions and thought processes. I guess there are no people  romanticizing the intellect of other animals.

 

Look, I am not supporting animal cruelty, but we have laws and organizations to watch-dog over those situations. If laws need changing, let's do that by all means. But to start up an internet campaign against third-party individuals and groups conducting their craft is in my opinion a tactic commonly used by animal rights groups, and a tactic that I personally don't like to see them having successes with. It lends legitimacy to these kinds of tactics, and we should not be surprised if our support of that sort of thing some day comes back to bite us in the behind.

[Doewhacker]

You certainly are stubborn Doc.

All the hub bub was because of the trainers deaths and the lack of preparedness to deal with a mishap.

Yes animal rights groups have attacked sea world but this appears at least to be about something besides them and their silly antics. A judge threw out a suit where PETA claimed the whales were slaves, this is a different case altogether.

[Elmo]

Some species have certain needs that other don't.  A lot of research is put into maintaining an animals mental and physical well being when confined in a zoo or aquarium.  You ever notice the size of a cheetah's enclosure relative to body mass and number compared to that of a lion's enclosure?  Problem is some place circumvent these to increase profit and these practices are not as heavily monitored as you would think.  As a hunter, I find it hypocritical to criticize another hunter of taking bad shot, injuring and causing needless suffering to a deer and then turn around and look at another animal in a zoo and say "so what?  they're just animals."

Edited December 18, 2013 by Elmo

[Doc]

Some species have certain needs that other don't.  A lot of research is put into maintaining an animals mental and physical well being when confined in a zoo or aquarium.  You ever notice the size of a cheetah's enclosure relative to body mass and number compared to that of a lion's enclosure?  Problem is some place circumvent these to increase profit and these practices are not as heavily monitored as you would think.  As a hunter, I find it hypocritical to criticize another hunter of taking bad shot, injuring and causing needless suffering to a deer and then turn around and look at another animal in a zoo and say "so what?  they're just animals."

And again, there are ways to handle those considerations, none of which should involve the kinds of tactics being used here. If there is a legitimate case of animal abuse (and I did purposefully use the term "if"), there are legitimate ways of going after those abuses. This idea of accepting internet campaigns that ignore legal avenues is really a Pandora's box that we may some day find ourselves on the wrong side of.

 

[Doewhacker]

Here you go Doc, this talks about the movie.

http://documentaries.about.com/od/revie2/fr/Blackfish-Movie-Review-2013.htm

[Doc]

Interesting article. So I guess my original synopsis of the situation was pretty close. It all sounds very similar to the attempts to close down the Ringling Brother's Circus every time it comes to town....lol.

 

The most telling sentence came right at the end of the article: "If you are not already an animal rights activist, this film may well convince you to become one".

 

Thanks for the link.

[Doewhacker]

No problem, facts with an agenda, that's how I would describe the movie.

I realized that I have seen part of it, the parts I saw weren't blatantly animal rights enfused garbage but I don't think it had to be because Seaworld hasn't done themselves any good on their own.

[d-bone20917]

Some people (like Doc) don't believe in animal cruelty.  They think all animals are put on this planet to serve us and if we want to lock a highly intelligent mammal in a small pen and make it perform like a clown for our pleasure then so be it.  These are the same people that beat their dogs and think it's ok because they are property.  I don't believe in any animal being locked up for our pleasure unless they have sufficient room and habitat to act like a normal animal in their native habitat.

[Doc]

Some people (like Doc) don't believe in animal cruelty.  They think all animals are put on this planet to serve us and if we want to lock a highly intelligent mammal in a small pen and make it perform like a clown for our pleasure then so be it.  These are the same people that beat their dogs and think it's ok because they are property.  I don't believe in any animal being locked up for our pleasure unless they have sufficient room and habitat to act like a normal animal in their native habitat.

d-bone - Don't be trying to make up my thoughts to suit your animal rights accusations. You have no idea whether I believe there is such a thing as animal cruelty or not, do you? You just kind of make it up as you go along. As a matter of fact if you were actually interested in anything truthful, and actually took the time to read any of the thread, you would have seen my statement just a couple of replies ago where I said that I do not support animal cruelty. But I will say that your reply sounds just like the wild mindless accusations that are common among animal rights activists. Your friends at PETA would be proud of you.