wintering waterfowl in serious trouble

[reeltime]

this topic has been in the news for a few weeks.  with the numbers I am seeing around here I can not imagine the numbers as a whole along the lake ontario shoreline.

 

just stopped back at the house after helping shovel out the store... and look who showed up again.. there was another drake blue bill at the store las week a buddy of mine thawed out and took over to the open water.  I told Judy he came back to get thawed out again. I found a drake old squaw a couple weeks ago all froze up and thawed him out and took him over to the bubbler,




while he was thawing out he sat on the seat and ziva sat in the passenger seat watching him. took him back over to the marina after he thawed out and let him go. its too bad we can not do anything to help them, he was severely emaciated felt like little to nothing on his breast. he did fly out of my hands and landed with his buddies around the bubbler. that old squaw drake was still there this morning and I picked up 2 more dead mergies and another dead blue bill.


he was really iced up these pics were taken after he sat in the truck with Ziva for 15 minutes.

now off to the farm to try and move some snowdrifts that are over my head...  thankfully we have a 6' snowblower to put on the tractor. will have to go in on snowmobile since there is no safe place to park the truck till we get the driveway open.

[Lawdwaz]

Amazing. Where are you located ?

BTW cute pic with your dog.

[Doc]

What is with these damned ducks and geese that they don't know about migration? Is it just my imagination, or does it seem to anyone else that these critters seem to wintering more and more in NYS than they used to. My Gosh, the geese in Canandaigua are amazing numbers, all through the winter. I can't imagine how they survive.

[genesee_mohican]

The divers are hardy birds and there is plenty to eat in Lake Ontario. Botulism may be the cause there. As for the geese in NY all winter, they have plenty to eat in the vast grain fields in our area. They can always find a wind blown field with bare ground somewhere.

[mike rossi]

Despite the news reports, not all the species found dead are piscivores (fish eaters that chase fish); and some can dive very deep.

Some of the birds found dead both eat mollusks and plants, but favor plants in the winter. Since plants need sun light, shallow water may be more important for foraging on plants than it is on fish and other invertebrates. It is not proven certain birds must eat plants, but it is believed plants are a more valuable winter food because of carbohydrates. When the winter is harsh there might not be as much wiggle room for an inferior diet.

Most of the effected bird species are calendar migrators which move in response to day length rather than food supply as mallards and Canada geese do. This doesn't suggest the calendar migrators will not move if they cannot access food. I am sure they were finding food, but requiring more and working harder for it.

Another thing to look at is the long term trend in reduced body weight in scaups during spring migration. In this harsh weather, the compromised body weight might have done them in. Possibly other species found dead have the same issues going on as scaup, but it has not yet been discovered.

It is not hard to believe starvation if you consider the calendar migration behavior; the harsh winter,and the poor springtime body condition identified in scaups.

Harsh winters and other eruptive "events" that result in die-offs often have some ecological link. No doubt poor body condition increases winter kill. There are a dozen or so ecologically based theories about why scaups have been suffering from weight loss in the spring. There is not a consensus as to the exact cause and nothing is definitive. What started as an inquiry to declining scaup populations discovered something has changed in the system which is impacting body condition thereby impacting reproduction and survival. Important to note the findings ruled out predation. It is also important to note that the data collected on scaup, a game species, was driven by harvest reporting and other surveys, and this information may be useful in monitoring the welfare of non game birds.

Edited March 13, 2014 by mike rossi

[Arrow Flinger]

Must be too many critters running around. Mother Nature is doing population control her way this year!

[stoneam2006]

What is with these damned ducks and geese that they don't know about migration? Is it just my imagination, or does it seem to anyone else that these critters seem to wintering more and more in NYS than they used to. My Gosh, the geese in Canandaigua are amazing numbers, all through the winter. I can't imagine how they survive.

That's what surprises me the most as I grew up in canandaigua and now live in the southern tier I see huge differences in the geese population. I go around to all the local lakes down here and see maybe 50 but when I visit my parents in cdga its nothing to see thousands I don't get it you'd think durring winter the numbers I'd see down here would go up a lil bit.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

[mike rossi]

Must be too many critters running around. Mother Nature is doing population control her way this year!

No, actually some of the birds are on the decline.

[mike rossi]

Another thing, this is spring migration, not fall migration. Those birds know that the further they are from their northern breeding grounds the bigger the risk they have in losing their territories or not finding the best nest sites. Birds generally breed in the north, so they might hold on a little more stubbornly in the spring rather than turn around. They all want to get to the north first. In the fall they might not be as willing to stick it out when the weather gets tough.

[reeltime]

law,   I am in sodus point,  on my way over to the farm this morning Ziva spied a drake mergie in the field. I tried to get him to take him back to the bay but he ran across the snow andflew off towards the lake but never made it higher than about 20 feet.  we are only a couple hundred yards off the lake, but the lake is froze out as far as you can see.

 

Mike these birds have been here since last fall, its not uncommon to have the blue bills, redheads, scoters, old squaw, mergies and puddlers here all winter. The problem is everything is froze over and has been frozen over since early january.  the only open water holding ducks is where bubblers are being run around some boat docks. there are so many birds that they have eaten everything they can get to.

 

one things for sure being a waterfowler and seeing this happening first hand on a daily basis is not something I want to see every year.

[Arrow Flinger]

No, actually some of the birds are on the decline.

 

Because of mother nature?

[mike rossi]

Because of mother nature?

You need to explain what you mean by 'mother nature' if this doesn't answer your question.

Specifically regarding the continental population of scaup; there are many theories and off the top of my head all of them blame anthropogenic (man-made) factors. I suspect you mean weather? One of the theories is climate change, but it doesn't deal with whether climate change is man - made or not. If you simply mean back to back harsh winters, but not necessarily involving climate change, I don't believe anyone suggested that. If we have a repeat of this year once or twice and populations decline even more, then point the finger at the obvious, but that still would not explain the prior 20 years or so.

I am not aware of all the birds involved. I heard red breasted mergansers and scaups mentioned, both which are declining in numbers. I don't know the situation regarding RBM, but I know that in some states they are doing ok, but that is not the case in NY. I am familiar with the situation involving scaups. Scaup populations have been on the decline for about 20 years and this has been widely researched. All that has been determined for sure is that the birds, especially hens, are arriving at their breeding grounds in poor physical condition. The body condition of nesting birds is known to regulate population size. So it is pretty much accepted that the decline of scaup populations is due to reduced spring time body size; but exactly what is the cause (of reduced body weight) is not known for sure. As I said, there are a number of theories, all of which are reasonable, and off course it is possible that there are more than one of the theories operating. Remember, it is only speculation (and mine at that) that the same body condition issues scaup are suffering might also be operating with other birds. My premise actually is pretty weak, because the variety of birds use different habitats over a calendar year, forage differently, and eat different diets. Not all of the birds found dead have been known to be declining in abundance, and that also might be inconsistent with my speculation. But knowing that scaups go into the spring partially starved or at least lean and needy is my justification for suspecting this is linked.

Edited March 14, 2014 by mike rossi

[mike rossi]

law,   I am in sodus point,  on my way over to the farm this morning Ziva spied a drake mergie in the field. I tried to get him to take him back to the bay but he ran across the snow andflew off towards the lake but never made it higher than about 20 feet.  we are only a couple hundred yards off the lake, but the lake is froze out as far as you can see.

 

Mike these birds have been here since last fall, its not uncommon to have the blue bills, redheads, scoters, old squaw, mergies and puddlers here all winter. The problem is everything is froze over and has been frozen over since early january.  the only open water holding ducks is where bubblers are being run around some boat docks. there are so many birds that they have eaten everything they can get to.

 

one things for sure being a waterfowler and seeing this happening first hand on a daily basis is not something I want to see every year.

Tough winter no doubt about it. What happened before January and/or when the birds where somewhere else might be a factor in why some of them cant hang onto life. That was my point.

Also, I don't see the wisdom in running bubblers when the food supply is exhausted. Especially true with calendar migrators in the spring. Did anyone don scuba gear and prove all the zebra mussels are eaten up? I am sure with less open water and more birds in a smaller area there is less food to go around. Plus the birds need more fuel to keep warm while working harder to get any amount of food. But this all started months ago, somewhere months ago some of those birds have already been compromised by ecological impacts and insults. I am not saying this is not an extreme winter and/or that some winter kill does not ordinarily occur. I am saying that the mortality is greater because of other issues. This is why biologists always stress ecology and controlling the variables that can be, because of variables like bad winters which cannot be controlled. As a waterfowler it would behoove you to pry deeper into how things operate as an ecological system. I am not trying to deride you with this, I am just pointing out that this is more complex than too many birds over a patch of open water running out of food.

I actually am more alarmed about how the newspapers reported this, allegedly quoting someone from the DEC, than I am about a single event of winter kill. This is an example of a bad event which can be used as an opportunity to educate people with the 'visible proof' that is widely demanded. I think some useful news articles can have been generated by this but they were not. As a matter of fact, the two articles I have read about this, contained a lot of erroneous information.

Edited March 14, 2014 by mike rossi

[reeltime]

Mike,  thesebubblers are used yearly simply to keep ice from building up around perm. dock pilings and lifting them. as with many docks where boats set for the season there are few weeds because people either keep them cut out from around the docks and the shade from your boat prohibits or greatly reduces the weed growth.  I know when I take my boat out in the fall there is a basic area void of weeds about 12 foot by 30 foot. 

 

not sure what happened to them prior to showing up here, its not hard to tell when things frweeze up to the north as we see large flocks of multiple species showing up.  I can tell you that around the first week of dec. we had a massive influx of mergies, both red breasted and commons, when I say massive I mean more than anyone around here has ever seen including veteran waterfowlers with 50/60 years under their belts. consensus from multiple sources were coming up with 50-60 thousand  mergies.... with a large majority of them coming into our bay  there is no wonder local fisherman were concerned. putting that many fish eaters in a 3000 acre bay every day for a couple weeks they are going to have a detrimental impact of baitfish and sport fish. 

 

as far a the zebra mussels go they seem to be on the decline or have declined to a lower level than 5-6 years ago, I did a few dock replacements last fall and there was nowhere near the mussel build up on the old pilings, you don't see the rocks encrusted with them, not a major pile of mussel shells on the shoreline that you have to be concerned about your dogs feet,

 

[mike rossi]

That is a lot of mergansers. I don't know if their populations are on the rise or not; but something reducing or impacting habitat elsewhere, or interfering with their use of other areas, might funnel them to your area. I don't know if you are suggesting the mergansers are becoming overpopulated there to the extent they are starving to death, but if that is so, the situation will correct itself fairly quick.

Since mergansers and other 'piscivores' forage much differently than 'pochards'; there is nothing linking the abundance of forage fish to the starvation of scaup and other birds. And there certainly is no link to fish populations and non-piscivorous birds.

Just an FYI: this becomes a fisheries conservation discussion, not a wildlife conservation discussion, when we start talking about birds impacting fish. Some biologists say the opposite, that it is fish impacting water birds of all sorts, not the vice versa. That is ok when we talk among ourselves, but I caution sportsmen from being outspoken about this with comments to newspapers when the topic is bird conservation.

Edited March 14, 2014 by mike rossi

[mike rossi]

thesebubblers are used yearly simply to keep ice from building up around perm. dock pilings and lifting them. as with many docks where boats set for the season there are few weeds because people either keep them cut out from around the docks and the shade from your boat prohibits or greatly reduces the weed growth.  I know when I take my boat out in the fall there is a basic area void of weeds about 12 foot by 30 foot.

You might have figured out a lot with what you said here. If these docks are shading plants in the summer and maintaining them in the winter with bubblers keeps them open all winter, they may be creating what is known as 'environmental traps." On a big enough scale, that might explain a lot of things - even scrawny scaup in Canada during nesting season... You should shoot some video or pictures and write up what you said here. I can find out who to pass it too if you want.

[Arrow Flinger]

You need to explain what you mean by 'mother nature' if this doesn't answer your question.

Specifically regarding the continental population of scaup; there are many theories and off the top of my head all of them blame anthropogenic (man-made) factors. I suspect you mean weather? One of the theories is climate change, but it doesn't deal with whether climate change is man - made or not. If you simply mean back to back harsh winters, but not necessarily involving climate change, I don't believe anyone suggested that. If we have a repeat of this year once or twice and populations decline even more, then point the finger at the obvious, but that still would not explain the prior 20 years or so.

I am not aware of all the birds involved. I heard red breasted mergansers and scaups mentioned, both which are declining in numbers. I don't know the situation regarding RBM, but I know that in some states they are doing ok, but that is not the case in NY. I am familiar with the situation involving scaups. Scaup populations have been on the decline for about 20 years and this has been widely researched. All that has been determined for sure is that the birds, especially hens, are arriving at their breeding grounds in poor physical condition. The body condition of nesting birds is known to regulate population size. So it is pretty much accepted that the decline of scaup populations is due to reduced spring time body size; but exactly what is the cause (of reduced body weight) is not known for sure. As I said, there are a number of theories, all of which are reasonable, and off course it is possible that there are more than one of the theories operating. Remember, it is only speculation (and mine at that) that the same body condition issues scaup are suffering might also be operating with other birds. My premise actually is pretty weak, because the variety of birds use different habitats over a calendar year, forage differently, and eat different diets. Not all of the birds found dead have been known to be declining in abundance, and that also might be inconsistent with my speculation. But knowing that scaups go into the spring partially starved or at least lean and needy is my justification for suspecting this is linked.

 

Nevermind. I'm sorry I even commented on this thread!

[mike rossi]

Nevermind. I'm sorry I even commented on this thread!

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by "mother nature"... Yes, this years record ice cover (might) be thee only reason for starvation, but as Doc and a few others said, why doesn't a bird, particularly a bird known for migrating, just move on? Valid questions about one of the best-known ways some birds deal with 'mother nature'. The easy answer is yeah, mother nature sent an unusually harsh winter and the birds starved. That may or may not be the complete story. Everybody's level of interest or curiosity about the situation is different, sorry to offend you. Even some people on here who ordinarily don't think about ducks, are still thinking, what the heck is going on, ducks migrate when its cold. Maybe they want to hear a few guesses, they sure aren't getting solid info from the news papers, unless they are reading different ones then I am.

[ringwood]

To answer why giant Canada geese don't migrate...read Jim Sterba's Nature Wars. Short version is this subspecies was used as a captive lure by market hunters for generations, lost their migratory instinct, then were released following new waterfowl laws prohibiting live decoy use. Limited urban waterfowl hunting led to large population increase we see today.

[gjs4]

I would like to thank all the folks who feed waterfowl for killing more birds this season than I did ... Ugh

[Larry]

If you are a duck hunter you should attend the FINGER LAKES AND WESTERN NEW YORK WATERFOWL ASSOCIATION meeting at the DEC in Avon on 4/13 at 10am. this issue along with season setting input will be discussed, there will be members of the western zone task force there as well as the DEC. The meeting is open to the public.

[mike rossi]

I would like to thank all the folks who feed waterfowl for killing more birds this season than I did ... Ugh

 

One thing is for sure, I have been reading various news reports about this, including the comments by readers. On several occasions persons cited feeding birds as the cause who were chastised by other readers who replied with valid reasons why feeding was not the reason. Another thing I have been reading and caution against saying is statements like it is a good thing the Canada geese; cormorants; and mute swans are starving.

 

I think sometimes feeding waterfowl is a problem, but I am not sure if it had much to do with this particular die-off on the great lakes. Most of the birds that (readily) take hand outs are mallards, Canada geese, and mute swans. The mallards and canadas migrate when food and/or open water gets cut off - largely functions of weather. Mute Swans were some of the birds which starved, but that is explained by the fact they do not migrate and are not native. Introduced species often have competitive advantages, as the mute swans do, EXCEPT when you have an extreme event like this winter. Native wildlife has evolved defense adaptations to cope and often lacking in non natives. Even the so-called non migratory or resident Canada geese move around and will take off for a few days to a few weeks and go 100 or 200 miles away, and I could be wrong, but as far as I know, mute swans do not do the same thing.

 

Other effected birds, besides mute swans - which do not dive for food, according to the reports I have read, have been birds that either forage by diving to a fixed food patch such as submerged plants or mussel beds or chase fish. The reports indicated too many birds in limited open water with not enough food. I am not knowledgeable about all of the effected birds, but I know some of them have migration patterns that are more tied to the time of year than to weather. Although many of these birds "winter" on the great lakes,  even those wintering birds are still nesting up north into the Canadian Boreal Forest. The wintering birds and the staging migrators all want to reach their nesting grounds "on schedule". I think that contributes to their stubbornness to take a temporarily step back so to speak. So, even native birds that have not evolved or developed adaptations to extreme events or long term trends (climate change) may not be able to depend on their "old behaviors" to cope with extremes or events. It seems that 'calendar migrators' that depend on historical weather conditions at certain times of the year, at familiar locations, suddenly are thrown a curve ball.  

 

There might be other things going on as well. For example I posted here earlier that spring time body weights of one of these birds (scaup) has been decreasing. The other species have not been studied in the same way, but it is possible they also have the same issues going on. If the birds were in better physical condition it is possible fewer might have starved, even though this winter was very harsh with record ice cover.

 

One thing is for sure, I have been reading various news reports about this, including the comments by readers. On several occasions persons cited feeding birds as the cause who were chastised by other readers who replied with valid reasons why feeding was not the reason. Another thing I have been reading and caution against saying is statements like it is a good thing the Canada geese; cormorants; and mute swans are starving.

Edited March 31, 2014 by mike rossi