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[tughillmcd]

Simple math indeed

 

You are correct, it's not simple math, it's actually highly sophisticated Physics. Shooting from a rest in a controlled environment at known yardages is much easier than in a hunting environment. What you don't see in your video is the arrow trajectory has an arc of 5 1/2' at 100 yards from a Tac 15. 

 

Here is a link to the data showing that the arrow would drop over 10 1/2' @ 100 yards. Don't believe me run the calculator yourself.  http://nycrossbowcoalition.com/myths-facts-presentations/index.php

Then check out the following video

 

And then this one

 

Now tell me again that only crossbows are capable of shooting 100 yards! And BTW, I would never recommend anyone taking that mule deer shot. There are too many things that can go wrong past 40 yards resulting in a wounded animal.

 

[tughillmcd]

Well I have been hunting PA's crossbow/bow season for years and wont have the fun of buying a new X-Bow now that they will be legal here in my home state of NY, already have 2.

But for you guys who are now in the market for that new crossbow I can say one thing. Get an Excalibur, they are the absolute most accurate, most reliable, simplest, easy to maintain, crossbows out there.

Easy to cock with a string cocking device(strongly recommended) easy to un cock with that same device, Easy to restring with an inexpensive limb compressor string(all available from Excal). I just cant say enough about the company and their crossbows.

 

I will agree that the Excalibur is a nice simple design, but some of them will not be legal. They included in the crossbow language a max 200 lb draw weight limit. Many of the new Excaliburs exceed that limit. Make sure you understand the regulations prior to purchasing a new crossbow so you don't buy something you can't use.

[BizCT]

That's why I bought the vortex because it's 200lb and that was the NY max years ago

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Doc]

You are correct, it's not simple math, it's actually highly sophisticated Physics. Shooting from a rest in a controlled environment at known yardages is much easier than in a hunting environment. What you don't see in your video is the arrow trajectory has an arc of 5 1/2' at 100 yards from a Tac 15. 

 

I guess that's what they make bipods, and rangefinders for.

[Doc]

Too little too late.

That pretty much says it all. Those that were interested in preserving bow season for bows, did our thing and put up a hell of a fight. But as one might expect, bowhunters being in the very small minority in the hunting community, we eventually lost out. Just as our predecessors who worried about the precedents being set by the compound lost out to those who wanted to erase challenge from the bow season, history repeated itself. It's a story that will continue to be played out over and over. 

 

So now is the time to back off and accept the fact that things pretty much went as we should have expected them to. There really is nothing to be gained by carrying on the fighting and arguing because that will not change a thing. Now we just make the best of a bad situation and brace against the next onslaught when someone gets another brain-fart and wants to jam something else new into bow season (look for muzzle-loaders next). Our season has been jealously eyeballed by many ever since it was first implemented. And sure as hell there will be another time when people will be using the insertion of crossbows as leverage and precedent for adding whatever comes next. It is really "too little, too late" for the crossbow takeover debate. It really is a done-deal. Now it is time to start worrying about the next incursion that the crossbows have enabled.

[tughillmcd]

I guess that's what they make bipods, and rangefinders for.

 

Yep, they make them so compound shooters don't have too much advantage over crossbow shooters. They help equal the playing field.

 

Did you forget to comment on the 104 yard compound shot at the mule deer? That is offhand with a compound bow. yet the crossbow shooter is on a bench. HHHMMMM.

 

Crickets!!!!

Edited April 1, 2014 by tughillmcd

[Doc]

Yep, they make them so compound shooters don't have too much advantage over crossbow shooters. They help equal the playing field.

You know if crossbows were such a clumsy, noisy, awkward, heavy, inaccurate p.o.s. that you guys keep trying to convince us of, one has to wonder why you would even want to use one ..... lol.

[Bowtoons]

Yep, they make them so compound shooters don't have too much advantage over crossbow shooters. They help equal the playing field.

HAHA LMAO!!! You can't be serious?????????

[SteveB]

HAHA LMAO!!! You can't be serious?????????

Check the online results for the IBO Triple Crown and Nationals.

[Bowtoons]

Check the online results for the IBO Triple Crown and Nationals.

And your point? Two total different situations. We're talking hunting. Not target shooting. Whens the last time you seen someone hunting with a 30' front bar and a 15" side bar with scopes and 27 series arrows?  You can try and sugar coat it anyway you want........I'm not buying it.

[SteveB]

I understand your pain - losing can do that.

[tughillmcd]

Check the online results for the IBO Triple Crown and Nationals.

 

Here is what the Triple Crown results from 2009 through 2013 would look like if the "Men's Bohunter Release" class and the Crossbow class competed head to head. Granted, they do shoot at different times, but they both shoot the course from the "green stake", thus they shoot the same distances at the same targets.

Note: Crossbow scores are highlighted in green.

 

If crossbows are so much easier, more powerful and more accurate, why aren't the top of each years results all crossbow shooters?

 

Why is the crossbow at the top spot only once in 5 years?

 

Why is it only twice the crossbow would have had 2 people place in the top 10?

IBO International Bowhunter Organization Triple Crown Results.pdf

[tughillmcd]

And your point? Two total different situations. We're talking hunting. Not target shooting. Whens the last time you seen someone hunting with a 30' front bar and a 15" side bar with scopes and 27 series arrows?  You can try and sugar coat it anyway you want........I'm not buying it.

 

Did you miss this video? This is an off hand compound shot. This is hunting not target shooting. There are no bars, front or side.

 

[Bowtoons]

Here is what the Triple Crown results from 2009 through 2013 would look like if the "Men's Bohunter Release" class and the Crossbow class competed head to head. Granted, they do shoot at different times, but they both shoot the course from the "green stake", thus they shoot the same distances at the same targets.

Note: Crossbow scores are highlighted in green.

 

If crossbows are so much easier, more powerful and more accurate, why aren't the top of each years results all crossbow shooters?

 

Why is the crossbow at the top spot only once in 5 years?

 

Why is it only twice the crossbow would have had 2 people place in the top 10?

IBO International Bowhunter Organization Triple Crown Results.pdf

Can X bow shooters use bi pods? Can you rest your compound on your knee to steady your aim as I could in the field while hunting with a X bow? You can't compare the results of target shooting to hunting situations.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Bowtoons

[BizCT]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. A crossbow has an advantage over a compound when both are used from a tree stand. But crossbow hunting from the ground without a blind is much tougher than compound hunting from a tree.

Almost all NY compound hunters hide in a tree for an advantage and this is why compound hunters from others parts of the USA laugh at this style of hunting because they do everything spot and stalk.

There are definitely some compound hunters on this site who could kill an animal spot and stalk style, but he majority would stand no chance. Might be time to learn new techniques or you might be watching xbow hunters walking under your tree stand instead of deer

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited April 1, 2014 by Biz-R-OWorld

[Bowtoons]

Did you miss this video? This is an off hand compound shot. This is hunting not target shooting. There are no bars, front or side.

 

I never said you couldn't shoot 100 yrds accurately with a compound. The point I'm trying to make is that there are many more ways to steady your shot with a X bow than a compound. Hence giving you more of an advantage with a X bow. Right or wrong?

[tughillmcd]

I never said you couldn't shoot 100 yrds accurately with a compound. The point I'm trying to make is that there are many more ways to steady your shot with a X bow than a compound. Hence giving you more of an advantage with a X bow. Right or wrong?

 

If a deer presents itself where you can use your rest you have a point, but how many times have you had a deer come in from behind you or from a direction you had not prepared for? Remember, as you stated, we are talking hunting not target shooting, You can only assume a shooting assist device, ie rail, bipod etc., is of value when everything works out as planned. And we all know, more times than not, the unpredictable will happen. That's why it's called hunting not killing.

As Doc stated, crossbows are here and it's time to accept it.

Edited April 1, 2014 by tughillmcd

[G-Man]

Belo, you  have to  take a comparable crossbow to a comparable bow,the tac 15 did not meet the regs when x-bow had a sunset reg in ny. axle to axle requirement. and poundage of pull. a 150lbs longbow blows a compound even the tac 15 out of the water. it does take more skill and stregnth to use. your comparing a 45-70 tragectory to a 300 win mag...  the regs are not yet set but i expect them to be the same as the sunset clause. as for long distance with bow..its done by hundred and thousands of archers every year, although i'd like them to shoot that far in the woods i hunt 50 yards is about max distance you can see.  ps . i also like th efact that the crossbow shooter is a highly trained marksman with the army   there are people that are above average in everything, but for a normal person, especially the slob gun hunters you think are going to pick up this like crazy ..its not going to happen.

 

Edited April 1, 2014 by G-Man

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Don't buy a crossbow the first two years of this. There will be many for sale slightly used in a couple years. It isn't a magic "bullet" to make everything easier like many sell it. The benefits of the tool will not replace the skill needed for the hunt.

[WNYBuckHunter]

And your point? Two total different situations. We're talking hunting. Not target shooting. Whens the last time you seen someone hunting with a 30' front bar and a 15" side bar with scopes and 27 series arrows?  You can try and sugar coat it anyway you want........I'm not buying it.

 

But hold on here, if we are talking hunting and not target shooting, then the video of that TAC15 is completely irrelevant, isnt it?

[Five Seasons]

You are correct, it's not simple math, it's actually highly sophisticated Physics. Shooting from a rest in a controlled environment at known yardages is much easier than in a hunting environment. What you don't see in your video is the arrow trajectory has an arc of 5 1/2' at 100 yards from a Tac 15. 

 

Here is a link to the data showing that the arrow would drop over 10 1/2' @ 100 yards. Don't believe me run the calculator yourself.  http://nycrossbowcoalition.com/myths-facts-presentations/index.php

Now tell me again that only crossbows are capable of shooting 100 yards! And BTW, I would never recommend anyone taking that mule deer shot. There are too many things that can go wrong past 40 yards resulting in a wounded animal.

 

 

What do you think level of training is needed to take a 100 yard compound shot versus a 100 yard crossbow shot? Why can't I set up in a blind and use my crossbow rest in my blind, similar to a rifle and at least shoot out to 60? Sure I could shoot 60 yards with my compound but I bet I'd be practicing a lot more to feel good about taking that shot. All I have to do is site in my crossbow scope right? Similar to the 8 year old boy shooting a trophy buck out off a platform with his dad's rifle on a rest... there's just not as much effort and training needed. That was my only point. That and I don't have to time my draw right either. Just cocked and locked. Pull the trigger.

 

And this doesn't even get into the "over confidence" factor that many gun hunters have. I can imagine, if crossbows are as challenging as many of you claim, the amount of hunters who will take theirs out of the box and head into the woods thinking they're Daryll from the walking dead.

 

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hunting/Hunting-Treestands/Treestand-Accessories|/pc/104791680/c/104783580/sc/104649480/Steddy-Eddy/745225.uts?destination=%2Fcategory%2FTreestand-Accessories%2F104649480.uts&WTz_l=Unknown%3Bcat104649480

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hunting/Hunting-Treestands/Treestand-Accessories|/pc/104791680/c/104783580/sc/104649480/Iron-Talon-Crossbow-Gun-Holder/728007.uts?destination=%2Fcategory%2FTreestand-Accessories%2F104649480.uts&WTz_l=Unknown%3Bcat104649480

 

 

Edited April 1, 2014 by Belo

[Doc]

What do you think level of training is needed to take a 100 yard compound shot versus a 100 yard crossbow shot? Why can't I set up in a blind and use my crossbow rest in my blind, similar to a rifle and at least shoot out to 60? Sure I could shoot 60 yards with my compound but I bet I'd be practicing a lot more to feel good about taking that shot. All I have to do is site in my crossbow scope right? Similar to the 8 year old boy shooting a trophy buck out off a platform with his dad's rifle on a rest... there's just not as much effort and training needed. That was my only point. That and I don't have to time my draw right either. Just cocked and locked. Pull the trigger.

 

And this doesn't even get into the "over confidence" factor that many gun hunters have. I can imagine, if crossbows are as challenging as many of you claim, the amount of hunters who will take theirs out of the box and head into the woods thinking they're Daryll from the walking dead.

 

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hunting/Hunting-Treestands/Treestand-Accessories|/pc/104791680/c/104783580/sc/104649480/Steddy-Eddy/745225.uts?destination=%2Fcategory%2FTreestand-Accessories%2F104649480.uts&WTz_l=Unknown%3Bcat104649480

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hunting/Hunting-Treestands/Treestand-Accessories|/pc/104791680/c/104783580/sc/104649480/Iron-Talon-Crossbow-Gun-Holder/728007.uts?destination=%2Fcategory%2FTreestand-Accessories%2F104649480.uts&WTz_l=Unknown%3Bcat104649480

Interesting links ..... lol. It seems like we are almost back at the old Allen compound level of development when it comes to crossbows. The floodgates of technology are just now starting to open. It appears that we will be seeing just how many new inventions can be based off the basic crossbow platform. Perhaps we have just let the genie out of the bottle. You have to admire that good old Yankee ingenuity......lol

[Five Seasons]

I understand your pain - losing can do that.

 

it's kind of like the sports team that lost season after season after season, and then they win and now they're the king **** huh? It's not even official and it's funny to see the bragging going on. A division III school storming the court...

 

Most of us knew the day would eventually come. As other said, it's a surprise it took as long as it did and I believe it to be a testament to a bunch of us fighting and doing all we could. I would not consider it a total loss. You don't get the whole season and there's a minor compromise. It's not a win, win. But it's a start for hunters in general to getting along. If that's even possible Now we have ARs to debate.

Edited April 1, 2014 by WNYBuckHunter
Inappropriate language. Please keep it clean

[WNYBuckHunter]

What do you think level of training is needed to take a 100 yard compound shot versus a 100 yard crossbow shot? Why can't I set up in a blind and use my crossbow rest in my blind, similar to a rifle and at least shoot out to 60? Sure I could shoot 60 yards with my compound but I bet I'd be practicing a lot more to feel good about taking that shot. All I have to do is site in my crossbow scope right? Similar to the 8 year old boy shooting a trophy buck out off a platform with his dad's rifle on a rest... there's just not as much effort and training needed. That was my only point. That and I don't have to time my draw right either. Just cocked and locked. Pull the trigger.

 

And this doesn't even get into the "over confidence" factor that many gun hunters have. I can imagine, if crossbows are as challenging as many of you claim, the amount of hunters who will take theirs out of the box and head into the woods thinking they're Daryll from the walking dead.

 

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hunting/Hunting-Treestands/Treestand-Accessories|/pc/104791680/c/104783580/sc/104649480/Steddy-Eddy/745225.uts?destination=%2Fcategory%2FTreestand-Accessories%2F104649480.uts&WTz_l=Unknown%3Bcat104649480

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hunting/Hunting-Treestands/Treestand-Accessories|/pc/104791680/c/104783580/sc/104649480/Iron-Talon-Crossbow-Gun-Holder/728007.uts?destination=%2Fcategory%2FTreestand-Accessories%2F104649480.uts&WTz_l=Unknown%3Bcat104649480

 

Between the noise and significant drop of the crossbow bolt (or arrow, whichever you want to call it), is 60 yards in a hunting situation really a good idea for most? Weve seen videos of deer jumping the string on compounds at 20 yards or less. I thought we were talking real world hunting, not target shooting.

 

As far as the amount of practice, who gives a rats patoot how much practice it takes? Can it be done by anyone that puts in the required amount of time? Yep. Should it be done by just anyone? Nope. Same goes with a crossbow, it just takes less time to get there.

 

Ive said it before, and Ill say it again, Id rather see a guy that doesnt have enough time to properly practice with his compound, take a crossbow into the woods and make a clean shot on a deer rather than botch a shot and wound that deer with a compound.

[wooly]

it's kind of like the sports team that lost season after season after season, and then they win and now they're the king sh!t huh? It's not even official and it's funny to see the bragging going on. A division III school storming the court...

 

Most of us knew the day would eventually come. As other said, it's a surprise it took as long as it did and I believe it to be a testament to a bunch of us fighting and doing all we could. I would not consider it a total loss. You don't get the whole season and there's a minor compromise. It's not a win, win. But it's a start for hunters in general to getting along. If that's even possible Now we have ARs to debate.

 

That was the most pathetic post game loss speech I've ever heard....... go hop in the shower,lol