Baiting for deer

[HUNTINGS IN MY DNA]

Do I sence that someone baits

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I have no idea what the answer to this question is but I hope someone does. in the states where baiting is legal, how does the fact a deer (or an other animal) is taken over bait effect it's entry into the books?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Do I sence that someone baits

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If that was directed to me, the answer is no. But I ask because you had  the comment about how "simple" it is. I was just pointing out that many hunters don't have access to land to do it. Even some leases aren't conducive to it.

[HUNTINGS IN MY DNA]

If that was directed to me, the answer is no. But I ask because you had the comment about how "simple" it is. I was just pointing out that many hunters don't have access to land to do it. Even some leases aren't conducive to it.

no I know I was just being sarcastic it is hard it actually sucks

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PREDATE]

so because it's really cold it makes it more hunting than early archery in the 70* temp?

Don't be silly.

I didn't quote the post(s) that I was speaking to(#'s 6, 80 and 87) that said, "hunting ANY animal over bait is not hunting and is not done by true hunters".

I will say again, try it and tell me it's not hunting.

[PREDATE]

I realize this thread is titled baiting for deer, but I was irked by the statement that said baiting for ANY animal is an insult to the hunting world.

Here's something to ponder. How about trapping? Is baiting not the most basic fundamental of trapping? I care to wager that no "true hunters" look down their noses at trappers and this is probably due to the Bambi Syndrome that four seasons whitetails spoke of. lol

Edited September 5, 2014 by PREDATE

[thphm]

Trapping it is legal in NYS to use baits and scents,But you are trapping furbearers Not Deer or Bear and Rabbits , turkeys and other birds.

I just hope the new hunters reading this post Read the Hunting Regulations for the game they are intending to hunt in NYS..Because if you do not you will be getting a visit from an ECON officer sooner and later and the fines are stiff , they just do not like shooting animals not legal to shoot over Bait and this is no BS it is the truth..

Edited September 5, 2014 by lurking

[PREDATE]

Trapping it is legal in NYS to use baits and scents,But you are trapping furbearers Not Deer or Bear and Rabbits , turkeys and other birds.

I just hope the new hunters reading this post Read the Hunting Regulations for the game they are intending to hunt in NYS..Because if you do not you will be getting a visit from an ECON officer sooner and later and the fines are stiff , they just do not like shooting animals not legal to shoot over Bait and this is no BS it is the truth..

Why does it now matter what kind of animal it is? After all, you're the one who previously said ANY animal.

Trapping or hunting over bait, they're both what you described as, " just sitting on your butt and not work for what you need or want, put bait out and shoot an animal".

I can see you're set in YOUR ways which is fine. It's who you are, but your previous comments of calling people who choose do do something different from you "an insult to the hunting world" and "not TRUE hunters" is frankly quite demeaning. If your motivations on this thread are really to inform the new hunters reading this post of the legality of baiting in our state,then why damn a particular action that is perfectly legal in other states. You might have unknowingly called that new hunters mom, dad, granddaddy, etc. who live in another state an insult to the hunting world.

Edited September 5, 2014 by PREDATE

[Doc]

Doc,

Your earlier post claims that you don't like framing the question as "right or wrong." Then you end the same post implying that baiting is a shortcut and stating you don't have respect for those that use a shortcut. In other words, you framed the question as right or wrong and then told at least some people they are wrong.

First of all let me correct a very blatant mis-statement of what I really said. I did not say that I have no respect for those that use a shortcut. What I did say was that I admit to not having a lot of respect for hunting accomplishments that make use of shortcuts. So when using quotes, please try not to purposely change them around.

 

But to reply to your comment, apparently you see some kind of contradiction. Right or wrong judgments are not the same as value judgments of accomplishment.

 

Of course I do not place the same value (or respect of accomplishment) on an animal harvested using shortcuts as I do for those taken without them. That is not saying that anyone has done anything wrong, or right. It is simply my value judgment on the challenge and accomplishments.

 

One example is when someone has taken a deer with true primitive archery equipment vs. when I take one with my modern compound with all the gizmos and go-fasters. Neither of us are wrong in our methods, but one is a heck of a lot more worthy an accomplishment.

 

As another example, don't be expecting a bunch of o-o-o's and ah-h-h's from me over an animal taken via a canned hunt. That's not a statement of a fact that they did something wrong, but simply that I don't rank the accomplishment in the same league as a wild free-range hunt. My attitude is exactly the same with baiting. It simply cheapens the accomplishment. That attitude says nothing about right or wrong.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Trapping it is legal in NYS to use baits and scents,But you are trapping furbearers Not Deer or Bear and Rabbits , turkeys and other birds.

I just hope the new hunters reading this post Read the Hunting Regulations for the game they are intending to hunt in NYS..Because if you do not you will be getting a visit from an ECON officer sooner and later and the fines are stiff , they just do not like shooting animals not legal to shoot over Bait and this is no BS it is the truth..

The thread isnt even talking about NY. Its talking about baiting where its legal.

[dbHunterNY]

I've obviously hunted here with no bait and other places in the country with bait.  hunting over a piles of corn or deer cane or whatever is no less ethical than hunting over a small food plot or next to a lone apple tree.  you're trying to take advantage of the deer's need to eat.  I will say hunting over bait can be very boring as is sitting over an empty food plot.  i'll also say that I think it's ridiculous when some dump a pile of corn when a big corn field is within several hundred yards and expect it to work like a magical deer magnet.  most of the time I feel mature deer don't come into bait until it's dark and then they eat it all!  it's like they know how it got there.

[Doc]

The thread isnt even talking about NY. Its talking about baiting where its legal.

Correct. I intentionally took the question of legality out of the original question and tried to limit some of the off-shoots:

 

"So what do you think. Is baiting for deer something you would like to get involved with (if it was legalized)?"

 

I'm trying to get at the mentality and motives and gut reactions involved in bait-hunting and how we personally see bait fitting in with our visions of what hunting means to us. It's all about personal, individual opinion. Maybe I should have phrased it all a little clearer.

[Doc]

I've obviously hunted here with no bait and other places in the country with bait.  hunting over a piles of corn or deer cane or whatever is no less ethical than hunting over a small food plot or next to a lone apple tree.  you're trying to take advantage of the deer's need to eat.  I will say hunting over bait can be very boring as is sitting over an empty food plot.  i'll also say that I think it's ridiculous when some dump a pile of corn when a big corn field is within several hundred yards and expect it to work like a magical deer magnet.  most of the time I feel mature deer don't come into bait until it's dark and then they eat it all!  it's like they know how it got there.

Actually, sitting over a pile of bait really shouldn't be anymore boring than sitting there without it. In fact watching other critters visiting the pile has to be a bit entertaining .... lol.

 

I think when it comes to how much of an aid baiting can be, it likely comes down to what I said earlier..... some know how to do it and some don't. I have no doubt that it works when intelligently used, or the equipment and the materials used would not be a huge commercial venture. You can only fool people for so long. If the technique were worthless, I don't think it would take people long to figure that out.

[Five Seasons]

I realize this thread is titled baiting for deer, but I was irked by the statement that said baiting for ANY animal is an insult to the hunting world.

Here's something to ponder. How about trapping? Is baiting not the most basic fundamental of trapping? I care to wager that no "true hunters" look down their noses at trappers and this is probably due to the Bambi Syndrome that four seasons whitetails spoke of. lol

Fair enough. Some animals like yotes and bears essentially require a bait or lure for success. Deer not so much.

Can we not agree that the guy who stalks with a recurve has a little more "hunter" in him than the 8 year old boy in a tree fort and rifle on a bipod shooting over a feeder?

[dbHunterNY]

Actually, sitting over a pile of bait really shouldn't be anymore boring than sitting there without it. In fact watching other critters visiting the pile has to be a bit entertaining .... lol.

 

I think when it comes to how much of an aid baiting can be, it likely comes down to what I said earlier..... some know how to do it and some don't. I have no doubt that it works when intelligently used, or the equipment and the materials used would not be a huge commercial venture. You can only fool people for so long. If the technique were worthless, I don't think it would take people long to figure that out.

 

I don't really know how to explain it but when critters aren't coming in except coons and squirrels, for me anyway, it's very boring.  more so then without it.  maybe you fixate on the small spot more idk.  just what I've experienced I guess.  that doesn't bother me nearly as much as the efforts it takes not to get busted in and out.  I've belly crawed into a ground blind in the pitch dark just to make sure I didn't spook anything at the pile.  deer stay after dark and so sit there until you think they're gone.  many times they won't be and blow out of there.  lol  i'll hunt somewhere over bait again where it's legal but it's not all sunshine and big antlers.  only experiences where with an outfitter that knew what they were doing too.

Edited September 6, 2014 by dbHunterNY

[jrm]

First of all let me correct a very blatant mis-statement of what I really said. I did not say that I have no respect for those that use a shortcut. What I did say was that I admit to not having a lot of respect for hunting accomplishments that make use of shortcuts. So when using quotes, please try not to purposely change them around.

 

 

Note, I did quote your original message. So the distinction between the accomplishment vs the shortcut was apparent to anyone who read my entire post. The distinction is relevant. Of course, there are many who would not separate themselves from the accomplishment and would thus find your distinction moot. "I have no respect for you as a hunter" and "I have no respect for your accomplishments as a hunter" is going to come across the same to most people.

 

Of course, stalking a bear for two weeks while living off the land and then taking him with your bare hands is a greater accomplishment than sitting in a climate controlled building and shooting one chained to a tree. (Hyperbole intentional, that is not the example you used). The point is that this level of distinction was not made in your original "respect" comment. 

 

People read things and take it personally - just as you seemed to take my post personally and respond defensively. I tried to make it clear that I am not "attacking" you or your position, but merely pointing out how the very situation you were lamenting gets started.

 

I didn't quote the rest of your post here, since I am have no interest in getting into the "baiting" debate. I have no problem with your opinion. I only hunt a private stretch of land in NY and as baiting is not legal here (as was pointed out in your original post). Any of my references to it my prior post were only meant as a topical example for my opinion as to how discussion turns to disagreement which turns to heated argument.

 

The point remains that your post I referenced started out with talk of impartiality and ended with an opinion ("no respect" = judgement in my book) on the topic which seemingly contradicts your original claim. I am not challenging your opinion on the topic. Simply pointing out that, based on other posts in the thread, there are some that could take your "respect" comment as a challenge of sorts. Either way, you have an opinion on the topic (just as valid as anyone else's) which would seem to be at odds with a claim of impartiality. 

 

It wasn't personal. I just found the irony a good example to use in response to your musings. I have no wish to get into another p***ing match with one of the regulars here (a moderator, no less). Just pointing out how words are often viewed from the other side of the screen.

[jrm]

 deer stay after dark and so sit there until you think they're gone. 

 

 

Honest and dumb question...

 

I completely understand that you are NOT hunting after dark. However, how to you convince the DEC officer of that when you are sitting in your hunting spot with your rife after legal hunting hours? 

 

Maybe I am paranoid, but I sometimes worry when I set up targets on my property to practice bow shooting out of season.

[BizCT]

I have no idea what the answer to this question is but I hope someone does. in the states where baiting is legal, how does the fact a deer (or an other animal) is taken over bait effect it's entry into the books?

No effect at all if the animal is taken legally, I would assume? I know p&y recently changed their stance on lighted nocks. I would think a guy who shoots a p&y or b&c deer over bait legally is eligible for record books. I would think the same for bear with dogs, spot and stalk, over bait, etc. all the same as long as legal

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PREDATE]

Honest and dumb question...

I completely understand that you are NOT hunting after dark. However, how to you convince the DEC officer of that when you are sitting in your hunting spot with your rife after legal hunting hours?

(If) you're someone who hunts coyotes at night, this is another scenario in which I believe it pays to get to know and remain in good standings with your local Eco's because it is legal. This may be an excuse that jacklighters use, but trust me when I say that Eco's are trained to be able to detect unlawful activity.

[Doc]

Note, I did quote your original message. So the distinction between the accomplishment vs the shortcut was apparent to anyone who read my entire post. The distinction is relevant. Of course, there are many who would not separate themselves from the accomplishment and would thus find your distinction moot. "I have no respect for you as a hunter" and "I have no respect for your accomplishments as a hunter" is going to come across the same to most people.

 

Of course, stalking a bear for two weeks while living off the land and then taking him with your bare hands is a greater accomplishment than sitting in a climate controlled building and shooting one chained to a tree. (Hyperbole intentional, that is not the example you used). The point is that this level of distinction was not made in your original "respect" comment. 

 

People read things and take it personally - just as you seemed to take my post personally and respond defensively. I tried to make it clear that I am not "attacking" you or your position, but merely pointing out how the very situation you were lamenting gets started.

 

I didn't quote the rest of your post here, since I am have no interest in getting into the "baiting" debate. I have no problem with your opinion. I only hunt a private stretch of land in NY and as baiting is not legal here (as was pointed out in your original post). Any of my references to it my prior post were only meant as a topical example for my opinion as to how discussion turns to disagreement which turns to heated argument.

 

The point remains that your post I referenced started out with talk of impartiality and ended with an opinion ("no respect" = judgement in my book) on the topic which seemingly contradicts your original claim. I am not challenging your opinion on the topic. Simply pointing out that, based on other posts in the thread, there are some that could take your "respect" comment as a challenge of sorts. Either way, you have an opinion on the topic (just as valid as anyone else's) which would seem to be at odds with a claim of impartiality. 

 

It wasn't personal. I just found the irony a good example to use in response to your musings. I have no wish to get into another p***ing match with one of the regulars here (a moderator, no less). Just pointing out how words are often viewed from the other side of the screen.

First of all, do not be concerned about my moderator status. In terms of my discussions, I am just another member expressing opinions just like anyone else here.

 

Second, I cannot construct my replies to accommodate reading comprehension problems. There is always an assumption that people can detect nuances of the language.

 

Third, I never even hinted "impartiality". I have definite opinions and I generally have no difficulty expressing them exactly the way I want them expressed. Framing arguments as right or wrong indicates that there is no room for discussion, which is seldom the case. But that is not the same as impartiality. I always reserve the right to have opinions that may indicate that I think or feel differently on the subject.

 

Regarding the "challenge" reactions to the "respect" comment, I guess that doesn't really bother me. I am simply trying to convey an inward look and respond with honesty, which is how I was hoping that all would respond to this thread. But, I can't control how people process that in their own minds.

 

[Doc]

Another aspect of the baiting question pulled from a Bowsite.com article by Dr. Dave Samuel:

 

Baiting is viewed as drawing deer away from those who don't use bait to those that do. He also noted that it may take advantage of neighbors with good habitat, by drawing away deer from those lands. In Michigan, there are situations where one person baits heavily on his property, drawing deer off smaller adjacent properties. This then forces those who hunt on small properties to bait. They may not want to, but they get into it so they can see deer.

 

Any comments?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Kinda like food plotting. Lol

[BornToHunt]

Kinda like food plotting. Lol

Bingo! Its all baiting. No difference if its a food plot or piles of bait.

[Doc]

This idea of forced "bait wars" is the one thing that might move me from being only mildly opposed to baiting into a position of more activism in any fight for legalization. The practice of baiting is one of those things where I could are less as long as it doesn't affect my hunting. But when I feel that a neighbor is actively trying to draw deer from my property onto his, I see that as a bit of an aggressive act. I don't want to see that sort of thing get started in hunting.

[jjb4900]

Another aspect of the baiting question pulled from a Bowsite.com article by Dr. Dave Samuel:

 

Baiting is viewed as drawing deer away from those who don't use bait to those that do. He also noted that it may take advantage of neighbors with good habitat, by drawing away deer from those lands. In Michigan, there are situations where one person baits heavily on his property, drawing deer off smaller adjacent properties. This then forces those who hunt on small properties to bait. They may not want to, but they get into it so they can see deer.

 

Any comments?

kind of like my earlier comment about the small landowner without the means to plant a food plot resorting to baiting in an effort to combat the loss of deer due to the neighbor with food plots.......that above statement could really substitute bait with food plot and it would sound the same.