Who takes a doe with fawns

[ApexerER]

9 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I've had it happen. Had twin button bucks stand and watch me gut the doe I shot with the bow. It's bleating. it isn't crying. There are no tears associated.  Ever pick up a puppy at 8 weeks and take it home from it's mother? Same "emotion". Not say anything bad about you or anyone that feels this way. Just trying to point out that it is imprinting human emotion onto an animal. 

I know you were not saying anything bad about me. I didn't take it that way at all. I will admit that I think some animals have some human emotion. I don't know about deer but I know my dog does. He gets happy, sad, scared, elated etc. I also believe my dog and I have a bond. I think its reasonable to think deer have some emotion. Obviously not like a human but I assume when I see a fawn jumping around, running and playing it is happy.

[ApexerER]

Guys, I just want to state that I am not knocking anyone at all if they choose to shoot a doe with a fawn. I don't have a problem with it...It is just a choice I wouldn't knowingly make for reasons I have stated. I am a little surprised to hear some of you don't feel any empathy after the kill. I guess I am more than a little surprised at that. Not sure I would want to feel that way.

[stubby68]

                I agree with the human emotion thing. I see it in our dogs. If the kids got to a friend's for the weekend the dogs mope around looking lost. When the kids get home they go nuts with exciement. You can see the confusion and fearin a fawns eyes as it try to figure out what happened tomommy. I just have no problem with it. Yet I respect those that do.

[stubby68]

11 minutes ago, ApexerER said:

Guys, I just want to state that I am not knocking anyone at all if they choose to shoot a doe with a fawn. I don't have a problem with it...It is just a choice I wouldn't knowingly make for reasons I have stated. I am a little surprised to hear some of you don't feel any empathy after the kill. I guess I am more than a little surprised at that. Not sure I would want to feel that way.

Actually I don't  feel that way. It's not a feeling it is nothing. 

[BigVal]

I'd feel guilty not really a subject that I think is worth arguing and trying to change opinions. It's a choice we each make. 

[Core]

I thought about this and read a bit about does and fawns and the state fawns are in during hunting season (their age and maturity), etc. and have decided that I would in fact take a doe with a fawn unless the fawn was very small. I do have a heart somewhere in there

Animals can feel emotions, if not the same mature ones we can. My guess is that if a fawn sees its mother disappear it has some sense of loss. I don't know how profound, probably not terribly, and I imagine the feeling quickly disappears as it continues on in its fairly simple life of looking for one of only three things: food, shelter, mating (when it's older). 

Edited November 8, 2016 by Core

[ApexerER]

7 minutes ago, Core said:

I thought about this and read a bit about does and fawns and the state fawns are in during hunting season (their age and maturity), etc. and have decided that I would in fact take a doe with a fawn unless the fawn was very small. I do have a heart somewhere in there

Animals can feel emotions, if not the same mature ones we can. My guess is that if a fawn sees its mother disappear it has some sense of loss. I don't know how profound, probably not terribly, and I imagine the feeling quickly disappears as it continues on in its fairly simple life of looking for one of only three things: food, shelter, mating (when it's older). 

I agree with you, I imagine whatever emotion they feel it is quickly gotten over and they are back on the road to survival.

[stubby68]

  I don't  think it is a choice . You do not feel guilty by choice you either do or don't . No emotion is a choice. Everyone of us have the ability to feel differently about different things. We do not chose to feel a certain  way we just do. I don't  think anyone has been arguing about it or trying to change anyone else's opinions about it. If anything I have said came across that way then I apologize . 

[BigVal]

Of course it's not I meant shooting the deer.

[ApexerER]

15 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

Actually I don't  feel that way. It's not a feeling it is nothing. 

I am not quite sure I understand how you could kill something, anything and have no emotion at all over it. Even if the only reason you hunted was for food, wouldn't you at least feel thankful for the harvest? When I get a deer I am so full of emotion I can't really even describe it. I think I go through every emotion there is when I am lucky enough to get a deer on the ground. Everything from guilt, empathy for the animal. To Excitement, happiness, and being thankful. And also a bit of sadness that that particular tag is filled and that part of the chase has ended for me that particular season.  All of those emotions are what makes me love deer hunting. Without them, I would see no reason to hunt.

[ApexerER]

10 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

  I don't  think it is a choice . You do not feel guilty by choice you either do or don't . No emotion is a choice. Everyone of us have the ability to feel differently about different things. We do not chose to feel a certain  way we just do. I don't  think anyone has been arguing about it or trying to change anyone else's opinions about it. If anything I have said came across that way then I apologize . 

Stubby, no need to apologize. You didn't come across negatively or try and change anyones mind. You are correct, emotions are not choices. I never really thought about that before. I am an extremely emotional person. To the point where sometimes it isn't the best. My highs are very high, lows are very low and if you piss me off you better watch out because I will hold a grudge for a lifetime. I don't chose to feel that way. It just happens. Funny, I never thought of it being so simple like that... 

[blackradio]

After passing on many doe that had fawns in tow, I finally decided last year that I was going to fill my tag on the first good sized doe that I had a shot on, regardless if it had a fawn or not. Both doe I shot last year had a fawn with them. The first time the fawn ran away and that was it. The second one stuck around after the shot and stared right at me for 5 minutes and then followed the blood trail into the thicket after her mom. Then she followed the blood trail back to the shot site and started bleating. Then she followed the trail back to her mom and at this time a group of 4 or 5 doe strolled through and the little one connected with them and left the area. I did feel bad about it but I would probably go it again. It just depends what mood I am in in that particular moment.

[stubby68]

15 minutes ago, ApexerER said:

I am not quite sure I understand how you could kill something, anything and have no emotion at all over it. Even if the only reason you hunted was for food, wouldn't you at least feel thankful for the harvest? When I get a deer I am so full of emotion I can't really even describe it. I think I go through every emotion there is when I am lucky enough to get a deer on the ground. Everything from guilt, empathy for the animal. To Excitement, happiness, and being thankful. And also a bit of sadness that that particular tag is filled and that part of the chase has ended for me that particular season.  All of those emotions are what makes me love deer hunting. Without them, I would see no reason to hunt.

        Don't  know I just don't .  I love being out in the woods hunting is just something I do. Kind of like mowingt he lawn for me just do it. I have never been emotional about it in anyway. I don't even feel anything when a family member dies. Death has always just been part of nature to me. Now I am beginning  to think I am missing something about being human.

[BigVal]

Literally just let doe with fawns walk. My preference if my buddy shot her in 10 min it'd be fine.

[ApexerER]

8 minutes ago, BigVal said:

Literally just let doe with fawns walk. My preference if my buddy shot her in 10 min it'd be fine.

Out of Likes ^^^ This is exactly how I feel about it...

[ApexerER]

14 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

        Don't  know I just don't .  I love being out in the woods hunting is just something I do. Kind of like mowingt he lawn for me just do it. I have never been emotional about it in anyway. I don't even feel anything when a family member dies. Death has always just been part of nature to me. Now I am beginning  to think I am missing something about being human.

Well if I could give you some of mine, I would in a second. I wouldn't want to have no emotion but I think I would be better off if I was less emotional.

[Rack Attack]

Personally, I can't shoot a doe with fawns that's just my choice.  I did it one time in my earlier years and had a similar experience that has been described with the fawn bleating and not leaving and I felt horrible.  I also can't bring myself to shoot fawns, they are so naïve they are not even deer yet in my eyes, in addition you would only get a grocery bag full of meat off of one (not even worth it), and lastly run the chance of shooting a buck fawn (which totally defeats the goals I set for my properties).  The last thought I have is I don't buy into the taking a puppy away from it's mother analogy.  You are taking the puppy away, I agree but taking it to become part of your family train it, teach it, care for it (big difference).  A better puppy analogy would be to shoot the mother dog and let the puppy's roam around in the wilderness.  Not trying to change anyone's opinions (cause that's almost impossible), just my feelings on this subject.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

6 minutes ago, ApexerER said:

Well if I could give you some of mine, I would in a second. I wouldn't want to have no emotion but I think I would be better off if I was less emotional.

I think some if it is conditioning. I guess I have taken so many deer through my career that is is kind of mechanical once the shot is taken,  for the most part. When I was very young (8)and in the woods with my father he hit a a trotting doe across the chest and it took her front leg mobility out. she was pushing her chest across the snow and bleating the whole way. That ruined me for the rest of that season and I look back and the next year Dad passed on a few shots and I think now he wanted to make sure it was a perfect shot that I witnessed next. It was. I think we can have compassion, remorse and that little sick feeling without effecting us to badly. I do not believe they feel sad. There is no grief on their part. just like the puppy that I mentioned in the earlier post. at 8 weeks taken from everything it knew. it  forgets, moves on and adapts. 

[stubby68]

16 minutes ago, ApexerER said:

Well if I could give you some of mine, I would in a second. I wouldn't want to have no emotion but I think I would be better off if I was less emotional.

I have been told more then once I need more emoation. When my first son was born His mother got passed at me because I had no reaction. She has come to realize I just have no emoation when it comes to life or death

[Culvercreek hunt club]

10 minutes ago, Rack Attack said:

 The last thought I have is I don't buy into the taking a puppy away from it's mother analogy.  You are taking the puppy away, I agree but taking it to become part of your family train it, teach it, care for it (big difference).  A better puppy analogy would be to shoot the mother dog and let the puppy's roam around in the wilderness.  Not trying to change anyone's opinions (cause that's almost impossible), just my feelings on this subject.

My point was that they know no difference. There is not a conscious knowledge of what happened or the results. Existence is only when in sight. 

[chas0218]

I don't just personal preference. I shot one a few years back in bow season and the fawn was next to its mother nudging her to get up as I approached. I just can't do it anymore. I'm by no means a bleeding heart but listening to that fawn bleat at its mother while hitting her in the belly to get her up was too much.