Gas drilling (fracting) and your hunting property

[flny77]

just enough time for fracting to be forgotten. Genius. 

[CNYScott]

No way this issue goes away.  The DEC is making a policy of strict standards and needs the extra time to get it done.  The fact that high volume drilling is coming is probably a question of when, not if. 

It's been in use for 60 years and the policy formulation at DEC has been ongoing for two years.

[flny77]

armcomm -are you a lobbyist, or a lawyer, or a scientist,  or all three in regards to fracting?

[the blur]

fracturing.

I'm against it.  but I don't see much alternative to heat my house, considering I use gas.

I still have to research this more.  Maybe just using plain water, but I'm sure they would have tried that already.

[CNYScott]

As I disclosed up front, my firm does government and public affairs for a trade association (ANGA) that represents 34 natural gas companies.  Before we agreed to represent them I spent a month investigating the news accounts, meeting with independent scientists and hydrogeologists, DEC attorneys and SUNY ESF administration and professors. 

Being an outdoorsman and conservationist I too was very unsettled by many of the contamination claims.  I've found them to lacking in evidence of cause related to drilling.  After going on a rig tour in PA and completing my investigation I was confident that the companies involved with ANGA are good corporate citizens and that we have a major opportunity in NY worth pursuing for clean energy, energy independence and development of a significant new industry in Upstate NY. 

I'm a life-long CNY'er except for military service and grad school.  I care deeply about the stewardship of our environment.  I am confident that this proven technology can be used safely in the Marcellus in NY.  I am confident that I've done my due diligence and in the year I've worked with ANGA been exposed to many views, pro and con.  The major difference seems that pro side has science and facts, and con is largely speculative, makes claims that are scientifically impossible or raises issues that I know will be properly addressed in the DEC SGEIS.  That's not to diminish the fear surrounding the issue - the industry has historically not done a good job telling it's story. 

[flny77]

AKA -" Show me the money" and I'll ship steward anywhere you like?

[CNYScott]

Not even sure what you mean, flny77, but it sounds like I should be insulted. 

I've taken a long time to describe my considerable experience with this industry.  I'm not going to debate it on a hunting forum.  Please take it how you will, as I've stated previously.  I've tried to provide detailed fact-based information and fully disclosed my involvement multiple times, right from the start.  Some people won't be convinced no matter what.

[Doewhacker]

Armcomm are you looking for a future in politics, because you did a nice dance back there and it reminded me of a politicians answer...here let shorten your reply...Yes I am a Lobbyist. There see, piece of cake . Thank you for answering our questions.

[CNYScott]

doewhacker - a lobbyist meets a technical definition established by NYS law with which we have not met that threshold this year.  I believe 2011 activities will be different and we will file after which you can see all of our disclosures of what we are paid, and spend money on, six times per year like any other resident with internet access.  Be glad your profession does not require the same.

We are lobbyists for other clients.  I know my business very well, so save your know-it-all answers and stay on subject.  A "thank you" you would be nice.  I joined this forum for hunting experiences, and have spent at least 1/2 my time trying to provide straight forward answers to all on Marcellus Shale drilling.  I've provided plenty of info with facts and sources to back it up, so whether you agree or not, you're welcome.

Think I'll stick to hunting going forward. 

[Doewhacker]

Did you think I was being sarcastic when I said Thanks? I was not, but I guess you would expect that from a goof like me, no harm no fowl, and again thank you for answering our questions. Usually we end up wishing we knew some one with some answers, in this case we had you to give us some answers. Even if we don't agree, you are ok with me.

[CNYScott]

You're good with me too.  Didn't mean to be testy.  Sore as Hell (and a little grumpy) from bushwhacking through thigh-high snow yesterday, but we got two nice does for our efforts.  Not looking forward to traveling today to Pittsburgh with the airline issues this week.  Hope I get back tomorrow!

[SteveB]

Armcomm - thanks for providing an informed balance to this thread. That is something often missing on forums.

[flny77]

    armcom,

In other words you are 100% right on this topic –due to your  extensive research (paycheck). And, mostly the rest of us (the majority) are wrong.  Good, glad we got that all sorted out. When are you going to let them frack up  your land?

[CNYScott]

Not what said or claimed.  I'm done with circular bickering. 

[SteveB]

    armcom,

In other words you are 100% right on this topic –due to your  extensive research (paycheck). And, mostly the rest of us (the majority) are wrong.  Good, glad we got that all sorted out. When are you going to let them frack up  your land?

I don't see anywhere that he has claimed 100% right and everyone else here wrong. What I see is he has provided a lot information - much with links and sources - for consideration. I do not see one post of yours that offered anything more then accusations with no substantiation of any kind. I would be eager to read any substantiations you care to post.

[flny77]

    Stevey b

It is not my intent to bicker, especially circularly, that  sounds horribly dangerous!

My intention is to block an individual that is not being  forth coming. We all have internet/search engines so as far researching pros  and cons you can handle that -I assume. Fracking is not a healthy practice –and  we need to open our eyes, we need to realize the opposition comes in many forms.  Here, I did some “researching” for you: http://kunstler.com/blog/2010/11/sixty-lame-minutes.html

Look for motive, listen for motive, time to take the  blinders off. 

-Forrest

[SteveB]

No blinders at all - just want to hear all sides.

As far as researching for me, I do expect someone who gives their opinion adamantley and wants to be taken seriously to provide some back up - which you now have done and I will read. You are right about many sides and hidden agendas - they all do it. Even those who have helped shut down most all attempts at things like logging, coal mining and all other domestic use of our existing resources. Everyone has an agenda of sorts.

[backstrapper]

I caretake for a neighbor and she had land selectively logged a few years ago.  Another neighbor called and lectured her about the evils for logging for 15 minutes.  At the end she asked' do you know anyone that seels firewood?"  Talk about an agenda and being full of shite

[wztirem]

No blinders at all - just want to hear all sides.

As far as researching for me, I do expect someone who gives their opinion adamantley and wants to be taken seriously to provide some back up - which you now have done and I will read. You are right about many sides and hidden agendas - they all do it. Even those who have helped shut down most all attempts at things like logging, coal mining and all other domestic use of our existing resources. Everyone has an agenda of sorts.

Arcomm presented a pretty good argument. His posts were well thought out, concise and to the point. Nevertheless, his consulting company has been retained by a client whose vested interest is to be permitted to develop the Marcellus shale gas reserve in NY. Arcomm's company has a lot at stake for if their lobbying, politicking et al succeed his company stands to be rewarded.

Consider this; he joined this site primarily to shill for an association whose primary objective is the development of the NY gas reserve. This site is a hunting site. Arcomms posts concerning hunting are transparent. He made his point, can he comment on any hunting issues?

I for one do not believe what he says to be true. its a wiin win situation for a few and a potential long term environmental problem for future generations of the state.

[CNYScott]

NYC based news station NY1, owned by Time Warner, just released this very even-handed special that looks at natural gas drilling and hydrofracing in New York State.  A short 22 minutes long it covers a lot of details well, and gives ample due to both sides.  If you are interested in this topic is is well worth the time.

http://www.ny1.com/content/special_reports/hydrofracking_the_pressure_to_drill/

At the end I still am compelled to point-out that the pro side seems to have science based facts, the against side fear and speculation, but that's my editorial comment. 

I'm not going to continue the debate on this forum, but I am happy to continue to provide information that I deem credible to help everyone decide for themselves. 

[wztirem]

"I'm not going to continue the debate on this forum, but I am happy to continue to provide information that I deem credible to help everyone decide for themselves."

That is certainly your choice.

Your end game is clear. Good luck to you! 

[CNYScott]

Interesting update on environmental progress within the drilling industry:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/energy/7345085.html

[Doc]

Apparently none of the hydro-fracking waste will be accepted by the Ontario County Landfill according to a newspaper article last night. So does anyone know just where that stuff is expected to be disposed of?

[Doewhacker]

Apparently none of the hydro-fracking waste will be accepted by the Ontario County Landfill according to a newspaper article last night. So does anyone know just where that stuff is expected to be disposed of?

Jersey is a good place for it. 

Good question Doc, where does all of this stuff go, I think the liquid stuff goes to a water treatment plant.

[CNYScott]

Typical NY - day late and many dollars short.  Most drilling companies are now recapturing and reusing 100% of the water used in the process.

There was an article in Towanda, PA yesterday on how their water and sewer rates are staying the same due to proceeds from the township selling water to the drilling industry.  Those proceeds are also paying for multiple capital improvements.

Many wastewater treatment plants across NY already treat frac solution imported from PA and Canada - never has been an issue.