NY's Future Under A Fracking Ban

[Mr VJP]

Well, at least you can say you're drinking clean water, even if it can't be proven it wouldn't have been clean.

 

https://www.facebook.com/TheDailySignalNews/videos/492210660944891/?fref=nf

[scolopaxmatt]

Thanks for that.  I needed a good belly laugh.

[Mr VJP]

You find people suffering economic hardship in NY State to be funny?  Why don't you go there and laugh in their faces?  I need a good laugh too.

 

[scolopaxmatt]

Well, at least you can say you're drinking clean water, even if it can't be proven it wouldn't have been clean.

 

 

Not the video.  Your introduction. 

[wolc123]

Now that oil and gas prices are low, it probably makes sense to keep the fracking ban in place in NY. Look at it as money in the bank. It makes more sense to withdraw it when prices come back up. Its not going anywhere. Let PA and Ohio sell theirs when its cheap.

[EspressoBuzz]

Yeah It can't be proven that if your water catches fire it's caused by fracking, just because your house has been in the family for 100 years and it started catching fire only after your neighbor allowed fracking their is no proff I'm sure. Just like there is no proof that all the earthquakes in the midwest (an 800 % increase) are caused by fracking. I don't understand why the scientist paid by the oil company is more trustworthy than the scientist who isn't.

 

I'm sure if i lived upstream of your drinking water you'd have something to say about me pissing into it.

[Mr VJP]

Buzz, check into some real sources instead of propagandist documentaries paid for by eco-facists.  You're buying that BS hook line and sinker, just like everyone else who cares more about feeling good about recycling than they would about helping people earn a living and survive a depression, which is what we are in.

[ATbuckhunter]

From what I learned in class, the problem with fracking is that no one knows what's going to happen when you shoot high pressure water. It could work well or it could be a horrible disaster.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[scolopaxmatt]

I'm sure if i lived upstream of your drinking water you'd have something to say about me pissing into it.

 

Simply stated.  I couldn't have said it better.

[scolopaxmatt]

Buzz, check into some real sources instead of propagandist documentaries paid for by eco-facists.  You're buying that BS hook line and sinker, just like everyone else who cares more about feeling good about recycling than they would about helping people earn a living and survive a depression, which is what we are in.

 

I interact with the general public every day so I should be used to this sort of stuff, but really man?  You have got to be trolling.  I refuse to accept that you are that ignorant.

[Mr VJP]

Yeah, yeah. yeah.......

 

If anyone ever shows me any conclusive evidence based on facts, I'll change my tune.

 

Until then this country has destroyed jobs and job opportunities in ALL areas of energy exploration and production, from oil wells to gas refineries.  

 

But it's OK to let Iran build nuke plants when America CAN"T!!

 

[greensider]

there is no clean water left in this country with or without fracking with it i could be retired right now

[scolopaxmatt]

there is no clean water left in this country with or without fracking with it i could be retired right now

 

Read a water body inventory.  Where do you think your drinking water comes from?

Edited May 13, 2015 by scolopaxmatt

[Mr VJP]

Read some economic reports from towns in upstate NY that need some type of industry to avoid becoming ghost towns in the near future.

 

You guys can talk about all of the "possible" problems with energy production all you want, but you cannot deny the REAL economic problems many Americans are suffering under, most of which have been caused by government over regulation of ALL businesses, in EVERY state.

 

[EspressoBuzz]

VJP I can't do what you say because it's a snake eating it's own tail. You see my facts are propaganda your facts are facts, if i read your fact they will become propaganda and if you read my fact they will become facts. Think Catch 22 and you'll be right on track. But hey let me ask some questions:

 

When do we err on the side of caution?

When do we say NO to blind profit?

Why are you giving the oil industry so much faith with the record they have?

When will you wake up and smell the crap you're shoveling?

[Mr VJP]

In 2013, the report states that federal regulations drained $1.863 trillion from the American economy. On the global scale, that $1.863 trillion price tag would peg U.S. regulatory costs as the world’s tenth ranked economy, more than the entire GDP of Canada ($1.82 trillion) and India ($1.84 trillion).

 

The 2014 report’s findings also include:

 

-  $14,974: the price each household pays to cover regulatory costs.

 

-  72: the number of new laws in 2013 which has led to 3,659 new rules, or a new rule every 2.5 hours.

 

-  191: number of “economically significant” rules costing more than $100 million each in annual compliance costs.

 

-  79,311: pages of regulations in the 2013 Federal Register, the fourth highest ever.  Atop the list are 81,405 pages in 2010 and 81,247 in 2011, both years under President Obama’s watch.

 

-  $10,585: average price per-employee for small business (fewer than 20 employees) to comply with regulatory costs. In comparison, businesses with 500 or more employees pay $7,755 for each worker.

 

 

http://costofgovernment.org/new-report-reveals-point-trillion-cost-a1817

[scolopaxmatt]

Read some economic reports from towns in upstate NY that need some type of industry to avoid becoming ghost towns in the near future.

 

 

I live in one of those ghost towns.  I grew up in one.  Your aim is shortsighted.  It will REALLY be a ghost town when the gas is gone and the water tainted.  Thanks but no thanks.

[Mr VJP]

When do we err on the side of caution?

 

When the cost of being cautious isn't 10 times more expensive and harmful to Americans economically, than the threat is environmentally.

 

When do we say NO to blind profit?

 

When you prove it's blind profit, and not economic investment that benefits the economy by creating jobs.

 

 

Why are you giving the oil industry so much faith with the record they have?

 

Because the government's record of disasters is much worse and you have faith in them.

 

 

When will you wake up and smell the crap you're shoveling?

 

When will you wake up to the crap you're swallowing?

 

Edited May 14, 2015 by Mr VJP

[Mr VJP]

I live in one of those ghost towns.  I grew up in one.  Your aim is shortsighted.  It will REALLY be a ghost town when the gas is gone and the water tainted.  Thanks but no thanks.

 

 

It's a ghost town now, but it will be more of a ghost town later?  that's like saying he's dead, but we can make him deader.

[greensider]

when the gas is gone you mean the gas that is just sitting there with no perpose when it could be making a life for good people oooookkkyyyy

[Dave]

Buzz, check into some real sources instead of propagandist documentaries paid for by eco-facists.  You're buying that BS hook line and sinker, just like everyone else who cares more about feeling good about recycling than they would about helping people earn a living and survive a depression, which is what we are in.

 

I guess you have forgotten about the asbestos industry, tobacco industry and Love Canal. How the indusrty told the public they were all safe. How did that work out for everyone? Cancer, birth defects all the time they were swearing they were safe, the problem is there were no eco-facists around back then to keep them honest. If there is a depression up state why are land prices so high and no one is moving out. Just who owns the land, who will make all the royalties and signing bonuses not the average person living up state. But the large land owners and not the guy who has one or two acres. Its funny the people for anti-fracking have no financial gain but they used their personal time and money to organize to stop fracking. So they are the enemy, but the large landowners most who don't live on the land who will make big bucks and destroy the land and environment are some how the good guys. Up state has had hard time before fracking, and fracking isn't the magic bullet to fix things.

 

[Doc]

I love these kinds of technology laced discussions, where each side trots out their gang of scientists, studies and research and proclaims theirs to be the only truth. We all become expert hydro-geologists and our word and expertise become legendary in our own mind.

 

I readily admit that I am kept ignorant on the subject by forces of each side of the debate, each one making claims that are immediately offset by counter-claims all wrapped up in what looks like appropriate credibility. I'll admit it ..... I don't know squat about the issue ..... period, and I refuse to try to impress anyone with some shred of potentially biased and bogus information that I have read from one side or the other.

 

My attitude is that I have seen enough industry abuse of the environment over the centuries, that I feel the burden of proof lies with those that want to use processes that involve the environment. So far the frackers have not met that burden in a definitive way, and until they can reduce their science down to laymen's terms, and fully disclose the nature of the witches brew that they wish to inject into the earth, I will simply be against it until they can. Proprietary info ..... balderdash! Nothing is proprietary when it involves potential fouling of the drinking water that keeps me alive.

 

 

[Mr VJP]

Choose to believe whichever side you want.  Believe neither side if you want.

 

But the point of the OP was to point out the terrible economic situation in much of NY State and fracking would improve that situation.

 

If there is absolute proof it would be more harm than good, let's see it.

 

If you can't present that proof, then show me what other plans you propose to help the people suffering under the current depression that has come about due to over regulation of the economy in the first pace.

 

It isn't real noble to think of yourself as a savior of the planet, when it's at the expense of the people trying to live on it.  It's just another politically correct ploy by Liberals.  They rejoice in the destruction of the economy and capitalism.  This is just another feather in their cap, nothing more.

 

Only NY would block an industry already thriving in many other states based on conjecture.  It does it in many other areas as well, because it refuses to ever look at any other states that are doing it right.

 

[growalot]

That video may have been a poor one to post....my eyes aren't that bad...and by looking at the pizzas she was making...Fracking isn't likely going to improve her business...just saying...

[Curmudgeon]

VJP's Liberal reference is interesting. When I got involved in the fracking wars in my town, I found the political leanings of those opposed to fracking covered the spectrum. some very conservative residents opposed fracking. Some liberals wanted a big payday. An independent opposed to fracking beat a long-time conservative Republican incumbent for a town council position. This is a Republican town through and through. Our Rs are not the new teabagger types who moved here from NJ. They are the old version or Rs who value the place they live and their quality of life.

 

I have said this in public a number of times: Even if it is proven that fracking will not affect my water, I still oppose it in my backyard. The air quality issues are more of a concern than the water risks because they are proven. Besides risking our health, the destruction of rural character would make this place somewhere I would not want to live.

 

LONG LIVE THE PRECAUTIONARY PRINCIPLE! LONG LIVE THE FRACKING BAN!