Rifle Hunting in southern Ontario County

[Doc]

Well, it looks like we may be able to use rifles in southern Ontario County. After two other false starts, the Ontario Board of supervisors finally passed the resolution and has sent it on to Albany for a Assembly and Senate vote and then signature by the Governor. All that should be done by next season, so now I have to buy a new deer rifle, and scope, and reloading dies. I'm thinking of getting a .243, probably in a Remington model 700 SPS. I just bought that rifle in a .223 for coyote and fox hunting and fell in love with it. I believe they make the same rifle in .243. If so I think that's probably what I want.

Anybody have any other suggestions?

Doc

[burmjohn]

The only three rifles I have ever owned was a 35 (great walking gun, short barrel), a 30-06 (love it), and a 22 (my first gun).  If its rifle now, then maybe it may switch back to shotgun, what would be the harm in being safe and getting a nice shotgun w/a scope? The one my dad has is dead on at 100 yards.

[Doc]

I already have a shotgun ...... a 1969 Ithaca Deerslayer. It has harvested an awful lot of deer. I bought that new, and it is all I have used for deer hunting since. No question it is very effective, especially in the short-range hunting that we have around here. This is valley country, and there just isn't a whole lot of wide open, long distance shooting. But for all these years, I have been beating the hell out of my shoulder verifying the scope alignment, and re-adjusting when necessary. The result ....... never any significant long practice sessions like I could do with a rifle. The shoulder would never stand up to that kind of abuse. I have never had any accuracy problems because of my close-range shot selection, but I still like the confidence one gets from spending hours on the range with their deer gun.

Doc

[TheHunter]

Deerslayer, that's an awesome name for a gun.  What about going for a 308?

[Doc]

There are a few other calibers that I'm considering.  A .270 is another one that I have been looking at. What makes the decision so darn tough is that I only want to buy one deer rifle to last the rest of my life. That means that recoil is a big factor as I start entering those years of decreasing body mass. Start hell, that's already happening ..... lol. But the choice is not, "what can I handle today, but what will still be comfortable to shoot a bunch of years from now. The other consideration is that I want a caliber that I can spend a bunch of time with on the shooting bench. I'll be coming up with my own loads, so I need to spend time checking out which loads shoot best. That means some lengthy shooting sessions. That is one reason why I have been leaning toward the .243. I realize that it is right on the lower border in terms of being a deer rifle, but I have shot a .243, and it is a real comfortable caliber that I could shoot all day if I wanted to.

The problem is that there is no place where you can try out different calibers. I'm a bit hesitant to simply buy a rifle and find out about the recoil for the first time after I have bought it. We used to have a great gun store that went out of business a couple of years ago. They had a unique feature in that they would let you step outside at their range and fire off a couple of shots from a gun that you were interested in before you bought it. Great idea, but nobody lets you do that anymore. If I was a member of a gun club there would maybe be some options for trying out different calibers ....... but I'm not.

I've raised the question of the .243 several times on a few different forums and there seems to be pretty universal agreement that the .243 will get the job done, but is the absolute minimum that anyone would recommend for a deer rifle. I do wish there was some way to try out different calibers.

Doc

[WNYBuckHunter]

260 does a great job on deer, the biggest issue with that caliber is the lack of variety in rounds. Recoil is pretty low and range/accuracy is excellent though. Thats what I shoot in my handgun and the recoil isnt that bad (for a handgun that is lol).

[A6A6]

hey doc.

how about 25.06

its light on shoulder and effective for deer.

or you may want to consider buying a Thompson Encore.

single shot and it has a interchangeable barrels for a decent price.

[Doc]

Another requirement will be a low cost of re-loading too. I do my own re-loading, which means a lot of bench shooting working up a good load that performs well. So component cost and powder cost will be a consideration. There sure are a lot of calibers in the lower end that are in the running, but like I said, the .243 is the only one that I have actually had "hands-on" experience with.

When I bought my .223 varmint gun (Remington 700 SPS), I also looked at the Thompson Encore. I came very close to buying one. There was some concern going around teh forums and in a couple of magazine articles about the hinge-style action on that style of single shot. There was some talk about an error that produces vertical group creeping. They had a term for it which escapes me at the moment. However at the same time I was hearing about this potential problem, I came across a pretty good deal on the Remington, so I went in that direction. I never looked any deeper into the controversy over the pivoting single shots, so I never really put that story to rest. I've been so happy with the .223 Remington 700 SPS, that I will probably be looking to get the same model only chambered in a deer caliber (assuming they make such a critter).

Doc

[A6A6]

the 700 sps. is a great gun.

my brother in laws have one each one in .223 and one in 22-250.

a bit heavy to carry around  but great reliable gun.

what kind of optics do you have on your .223

[Doc]

Nothing special ....... just a 3x -10x Bushell. That's one place where I could use improvement on all my guns is the scopes. The problem is that a really good scope costs more than the gun, and the whole package gets to be a bit of a strain on the wallet.

Doc

[WNYBuckHunter]

Doc, there is nothing wrong with the TC Encore. The basic design has been around for a long long time and has always been reliable. My next rifle will be an Encore, and Im planning on setting it up for 2 rifle calibers and a ML. Really, all I have to do is get barrels and a stock to change my handgun over to a rifle or ML. Many guys underestimate them because they are single shot guns. How many shots do you really need? 

[Doc]

Well, you probably are right, but when I was floating the question on a few forums, there seemed to be more than a few that talked about this "vertical lining" or whatever the term was. I'm sure whatever they were talking about was probably some small effect that I probably would never be able to detect given my shooting abilities, but Since there was a pile of money involved, I took the safe route, and left the controversy for others to to sort out. I have not been unhappy with my Remington choice and probably wouldn't be disappointed with another one in the gun cabinet.

Doc

[Fantail]

.... I'll be coming up with my own loads, so I need to spend time checking out which loads shoot best. That means some lengthy shooting sessions. That is one reason why I have been leaning toward the .243. I realize that it is right on the lower border in terms of being a deer rifle, but I have shot a .243, and it is a real comfortable caliber that I could shoot all day if I wanted to.

...

I've raised the question of the .243 several times on a few different forums and there seems to be pretty universal agreement that the .243 will get the job done, but is the absolute minimum that anyone would recommend for a deer rifle. I do wish there was some way to try out different calibers.

Doc

Doc; first, I apologize for chopping to quote a little bit.  I understand your hesitation to settle on one rifle.  A few years ago I was doing the exact same thing.  And up until recently I hunted in Bow or Shotgun only areas.  Settled on two different choices; quarter bore or 243 because I intended to do some coyote and varmint hunting.  At the time I didn't know I was going to get into reloading and so I considered the availability of ammunition.  The 243 was the logical choice.  Well, I did get into reloading but the point is there's decent factory ammunition available.

Yes the 243 doesn't have the knockdown power of a 270 or 308.  But it does have more than enough energy and accuracy.  Realistically, we all know other hunters are out there taking deer with 3030s, even lower recoil oil ammunition for 20 gauges.  We can all discuss energy and ballistics til the horse dies but I might bet that a lot of people that say the 243 isn't a good deer rifle have never hunted deer with the 243.  Or maybe there trying to find a way to justify what they spent on that 300 magnum.  I reject what they say.  Yet, to each his own.

If rifle hunting is expanded to your county, not a whole lot will change.  They did the same thing in Madison County so last year on opening day regular season I took the 243 up a tree so to say. 

Here are the results; .243 100gr Sierra gameking. 130 yards. 7 pnt. He hobbled about another 30 yards and dropped. Blood trail our Governor could follow.

[burmjohn]

Looks like a nice sized deer

[WNYBuckHunter]

Well, you probably are right, but when I was floating the question on a few forums, there seemed to be more than a few that talked about this "vertical lining" or whatever the term was. I'm sure whatever they were talking about was probably some small effect that I probably would never be able to detect given my shooting abilities, but Since there was a pile of money involved, I took the safe route, and left the controversy for others to to sort out. I have not been unhappy with my Remington choice and probably wouldn't be disappointed with another one in the gun cabinet.

Doc

Oh I agree on the Remmy 700 SPS, my SPS in 223 is a sweet, sweet shooter.

[Fantail]

SPS is an excellent rifle. Going with one would have saved a pound or so on carry weight and I would have to worry about scruffing up the finish. But the tiger wood on the VLS got to me. 

[Doc]

Fantail-

That is one ugly hole in that deer!!! Nasty...Nasty....nasty!

Doc

[Setters4life]

I've shot a 6MM Rem. in a M700 for a number of years now. Great dual-capability cartridge like the .243 Win. I reload and it's proven to be one accurate cartridge for me with bullet weights from 75 grs. to 105 grs. I've come to like the smaller bores so much I've picked up a couple of .257 Roberts over the last ten years to add to my collection of rifle calibers. The .257 Roberts is another great round. You realize the most potential if you reload for this cartridge too. If you like to shoot and practice a lot, the .24's and .25's are two nice calibers that are easy on the shoulder and easy on the pocketbook if you reload.

I agree that the .243/6MM may be the minimum for deer, but in knowledgeable and capable hands, it's a good choice. You just need to be cognizant of its limitations.

As for something else, I own nothing between the calibers of .25 to .30 that I'd recommend from personal experience until I get in the .30's. I've never gotten anything in between the .25's and the .30's yet, but always wanted a .270, a 7mm/08, a .260Rem., a 7x57, or 6.5x55; and have thought about one of these for years. (I had a 7mm Mag. but sold it. It was too expensive to pull the trigger at the range even though I was reloading for it some twenty years ago.) A .308 would make a good dual-purpose gun as well. I think all of these calibers could serve well as a dual-purpose gun. For me, I just haven't found the next right one in the right gun yet. But I'm looking.  ;D

[Fairgame]

Doc,

I believe the 243 is great for deer and the accuracy is also great even on factory loads.  I believe that is the way to go for a longterm gun.  My cousin bought his kids one for deer hunting and their first year hunting in N Carolina they Harvested 6 deer and a 200 pound hog with a 243 all with a single shot. Light recoil, very accurate, and very easy to find reloads.

[Doc]

I think with my prior experience of having shot my Brother-in-law's .243, and the comments of the majority of people on this forum and a couple of others, I have decided that the .243 is what I will be buying. Of course the other thing that will require a decision is what scope to top it off with. That's another tough one because quality costs. It's going to be another trade-off kind of decision.

Now all I need is some reassurance that the state legislature and the Governor are actually going to pass the rifle bill for Southern Ontario County. This will be the third time that it has been attempted, so it's not a done-deal until the Governor finally signs it. It's been quite some time with no word on any progress. At some point I may have to take a gamble and buy the gun anyway, but I have to admit that unless we can legally use it locally, the gun would probably not be used all that much, so I'm not exactly rushing just yet.

Doc

[WNYBuckHunter]

On the optics, take a good look at Vortex, very good quality at a reasonable price. They are American made, lifetime warranty, all of the good features, crisp, clear glass and affordable. They are kind of new on the scene, but they are gathering a strong following quickly. Every time I have my SPS at the range, guys are asking me about my Vortex, many of them shoot high end scopes and they take a few looks through mine and are surprised at how good it is, then I tell them how much I paid and they are shocked.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/

[burmjohn]

Those look like some nice scopes. I'm due for one on my 30-06... Which one do you have?

[WNYBuckHunter]

This one

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-crossfire-4-16x50-ao-riflescope-mil-dot-illuminated-reticle

[burmjohn]

I can't believe their prices (besides the crazy $1500 on) they are pretty affordable...

[Canmandan]

I have a .270 that I love!