Rifle Hunting in southern Ontario County

[Canmandan]

There are a few other calibers that I'm considering.  A .270 is another one that I have been looking at. What makes the decision so darn tough is that I only want to buy one deer rifle to last the rest of my life. That means that recoil is a big factor as I start entering those years of decreasing body mass. Start hell, that's already happening ..... lol. But the choice is not, "what can I handle today, but what will still be comfortable to shoot a bunch of years from now. The other consideration is that I want a caliber that I can spend a bunch of time with on the shooting bench. I'll be coming up with my own loads, so I need to spend time checking out which loads shoot best. That means some lengthy shooting sessions. That is one reason why I have been leaning toward the .243. I realize that it is right on the lower border in terms of being a deer rifle, but I have shot a .243, and it is a real comfortable caliber that I could shoot all day if I wanted to.

The problem is that there is no place where you can try out different calibers. I'm a bit hesitant to simply buy a rifle and find out about the recoil for the first time after I have bought it. We used to have a great gun store that went out of business a couple of years ago. They had a unique feature in that they would let you step outside at their range and fire off a couple of shots from a gun that you were interested in before you bought it. Great idea, but nobody lets you do that anymore. If I was a member of a gun club there would maybe be some options for trying out different calibers ....... but I'm not.

I've raised the question of the .243 several times on a few different forums and there seems to be pretty universal agreement that the .243 will get the job done, but is the absolute minimum that anyone would recommend for a deer rifle. I do wish there was some way to try out different calibers.

Doc

Doc, I love my .270 and I  don't even feel the recoil. My bother swears by his 30-06 but I prefer something that doesn't kill at both ends. I live in the City of  Canandaigua and didn't have a place to shoot either. A  few years ago I joined the Shortvilles Rod and Gun Club. They have a nice chunk of property and it is $35 per year for the family.... can't beat that with a stick!

Where do you live?

[Setters4life]

I think with my prior experience of having shot my Brother-in-law's .243, and the comments of the majority of people on this forum and a couple of others, I have decided that the .243 is what I will be buying. Of course the other thing that will require a decision is what scope to top it off with. That's another tough one because quality costs. It's going to be another trade-off kind of decision.

Now all I need is some reassurance that the state legislature and the Governor are actually going to pass the rifle bill for Southern Ontario County. This will be the third time that it has been attempted, so it's not a done-deal until the Governor finally signs it. It's been quite some time with no word on any progress. At some point I may have to take a gamble and buy the gun anyway, but I have to admit that unless we can legally use it locally, the gun would probably not be used all that much, so I'm not exactly rushing just yet.

Doc

I like the 6mm caliber, and it does suffice nicely as a "dual-purpose cartridge" if there really is such a thing, but don't count out the quarterbores (.250 Savage/.257 Roberts/.25-06). I think they are a nice caliber, won't beat up your shoulder and they are easily mastered to reload for and shoot accurately. I respect the merits of a larger bore for certain applications, but as I've gotten older I've sold my magnums and have an affection for the smaller calibers.

[Pygmy]

Doc... There are no flies on the .243 as a deer cartridge...However, the .243 is basically a "dual purpose" round which serves well for varmints and also does a decent job on deer...

Since you already have your .223 to cover the varmints, you might consider moving up to something that will handle slightly heavier bullets for a pure deer cartridge..

I would recommend the 7mm08... Recoil with 120 or 140 grain bullets is noticeably less than with .270/.280/30-06 class cartridges... Most powder charges are 45.0 grains or less... It doesn't kick much more than a .243 but packs considerably more punch.. IMHO it is close to the perfect cartridge for deer sized game.. It is easy to reload for and in most rifles superbly accurate..

[fasteddie]

I have a NEF 25-06 Handi-Rifle but ........... if I were choosing over again , I would go with the 270 . It packs enough wallop to drop a deer and the ammunition is much less expensive .

[Setters4life]

I would recommend the 7mm08... 

I would agree with this statement too. The 7mm class of cartridges is a sound choice, thanks to a plethora of good bullet selections. A "small" 7MM (7mm-08 or 7x57) is still on my bucketlist for a future rifle. I had a 7mm Mag. many years ago when I was young and as I grew older felt it was too much gun for my needs so I sold it.

I have also been hearing good things about the .260 Remington from a number of friends in Pennsylvania over the past couple of years. The jury is out though to see if it will ever become as popular as the 7mm-08. 

[MuzzyLoader]

I have also been hearing good things about the .260 Remington from a number of friends in Pennsylvania over the past couple of years. The jury is out though to see if it will ever become as popular as the 7mm-08.

I have a .260 Remington, and I absolutely love it!  It may not ever become as popular as the 7mm-08, but it sure drops deer in a hurry!  It is very light on the shoulder.

[Pygmy]

I also have a .260 rem. but it is in a "handrifle" , a Rem  XP100 pistol... I have taken a number of deer with, and as far performance goes, it is so close to the 7mm08 that there is no point in discussing the difference..

The only disadvantage I see in the .260 vs 7mm08 as a deer cartridge is availability of factory ammo.. I handload all my centerfire ammo, so it's not an issue for me,  but the 7mm08 had a considerable headstart on the .260 before it became available as a factory cartridge, and the .260  lags far behind the 7mm08 in popularity..Hence, there is not a great variety of factory loads offered for it, and ammo availability might be an issue in some areas..

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yep, its kinda tough to get 260 sometimes, I just make sure I keep it around and take more than one box with me to camp. One of my very good friends has the twin gun to my TC Encore and I have seen him literally tip deer over at 150 yards with it. They usually dont run more than 20 yards if that. Hopefully Ill get to test mine out on a deer or two (or more) this year.

[Lawdwaz]

Any updates on this issue? 

[Doc]

Any updates on this issue?

I haven't heard a thing. I suspect that all the grief with the budget has pretty much paralyzed Albany. Maybe now that the budget is passed, some of the more mundane business of running the state will start to happen. I have pretty much written off rifles in Ontario County for this year. I hope I am wrong.

Doc

[Lawdwaz]

I guess I'm still optimistic it will happen.  Frustrating how this has been handled.  Can't imagine the circle jerk that must go on when it's important, like a friggin budget.  Really disgusting.

[Pygmy]

Don't give up hope yet.. As I remember when they opened up Steuben a couple of years ago, it was  close to deer season before we knew for certain rifles would be legal... 

[Doc]

It's getting pretty close to it being too late for this year for me already. I won't buy a rifle until I know the law is in effect. After all, this is the third go at it ..... lol. The longer it goes without a rifle purchase, the less time I will have to make the final decision of what caliber, what make and model, what scope, etc. etc. I also need some time to get the thing sighted in and to shoot it enough to feel real comfortable with it.

I'm thinking that maybe the bill got buried under a whole pile of other bills of higher priority while they were messing around all those months trying to pass the budget.

Doc

[Pygmy]

Well... Good luck, Doc...

Yeah... I know what you mean... Being RUSHED into such decisions would take a lot of the joy out of it..

I was fortunate.. When rifles were legalized in my county I had already been hunting with them in other states for 40 years....

[vipertech]

I would recommend the 7mm08... Recoil with 120 or 140 grain bullets is noticeably less than with .270/.280/30-06 class cartridges... Most powder charges are 45.0 grains or less... It doesn't kick much more than a .243 but packs considerably more punch.. IMHO it is close to the perfect cartridge for deer sized game.. It is easy to reload for and in most rifles superbly accurate..

[/size]

[/size]I was about to post pretty much the same thing.  Especially this sentence....."[/size]IMHO it is close to the perfect cartridge for deer sized game".  If you are into reloading, there are tons of choices for bullets in the 7mm size.  Case is based on the .308 so there's a lot of them too.  Factory loads can be juuuust a little bit hard to find sometimes but I've not had any trouble yet.  I've bought them at a local gun shop, Bass Pro in Auburn and Gander Mnt. in Henrietta.  Mine 7mm-08 loves the Federal 140g Accubond's.  The last deer I took with em fell in it's tracks. 

[Lawdwaz]

It's getting pretty close to it being too late for this year for me already. I won't buy a rifle until I know the law is in effect. After all, this is the third go at it ..... lol. The longer it goes without a rifle purchase, the less time I will have to make the final decision of what caliber, what make and model, what scope, etc. etc. I also need some time to get the thing sighted in and to shoot it enough to feel real comfortable with it.

I'm thinking that maybe the bill got buried under a whole pile of other bills of higher priority while they were messing around all those months trying to pass the budget.

Doc

Hey Doc-

I don't know you from the Man on the Moon but if they pass that rifle bill on the Thursday afternoon before gun season opens you can borrow a Remington 722 in 257 Bob.  Sighted in and ready to rock,Doc!

[Doc]

Thanks for the offer. I'll keep that in mind. But, I suppose I can probably live with that old shoulder mangler of a 12 guage for another year if I have to. Actually, I'm really looking for an excuse to buy another rifle ..... lol. Can't justify it as a "need". But it sure is a "want".

Thanks again for the offer. I appreciate it.

Doc

[Doc]

Interesting development in the southern Ontario County Rifle bill. I have unofficially heard that the Canadice Town Supervisor sent a letter to Governor Paterson about the county vote that indicated approval. She explained to him that while the proposal was officially passed, the actual vote was against passing the measure. The actual vote of individual supervisors was 12 to 9 against passing the proposal.

So how did it get registered as an approved proposal? It turns out that Ontario County has a "weighted" vote that gives some townships a vote that counts more than others. That's based on population and is supposed to make the vote more fair in that it is based on the actual number of people that are in each township. Now here's the problem ...... The people voting against the measure were from the townships south of rts 5 & 20 which is the area that the law would pertain to, while the bigger townships to the north which would not be effected were the ones that voted for it. So it turns out that the larger towns who are not affected were able to force a law regarding local safety on the smaller towns that are actually affected.

Well, this is where the plot thickens .... lol. The Canadice Town Supervisor sent a letter to the Governor laying this whole scenario out. Will it change anything? ..... Don't know. Only time will tell, but the rifle bill is not a done-deal in Ontario County. So I'm still not running right out just yet and buying a shiny new deer rifle.

This bill is turning into a real comedy with more twists and turns that any work of fiction could ever conjure up.

Doc

[Lawdwaz]

I have to wonder if this is a personal thing for Ms. Singer. 

Is she REALLY getting pressured from that many concerned citizens or is just a few connected individuals?

Or is it just her own fear of the rifle? 

Is this the first time this "weighted" vote has ever been questioned?

Comical to say the least.

[Doc]

I have to wonder if this is a personal thing for Ms. Singer. 

Is she REALLY getting pressured from that many concerned citizens or is just a few connected individuals?

Or is it just her own fear of the rifle? 

Is this the first time this "weighted" vote has ever been questioned?

Comical to say the least.

She admits that she has her own individual fears about the added range, but also claims to have found support for her opposition among residents of her township. Also, according to the vote, she is not alone in the southern Ontario township supervisors, In fact I believe it was unanimous opposition among all the supervisors in the affected area.

I must admit that I have mixed feelings also on the issue. I have two opinions. One as a hunter, and another as a landowner whose house sits at the end of a 200 Yard state field with a not very substantial hedgerow between us.....lol. I sure would love to ditch that shoulder masher 12 guage and pick up something like a .243 that I could target practice with all day and then go deer hunting with, enjoying the added pin-point accuracy. But I keep looking over at that hedgerow, remembering how many times over the past decades that I have watched deer sneaking off the hill headed toward the thickets at the bottom that have used that hedge as their route.

So either way, I will wind up disappointed. However, I won't have anyone to be mad at because I understand both positions.

Doc

[Doc]

It sounds like we can write off having the use of rifles in southern Ontario County this year. As I suspected was happening, the bill never came out of the Senate committee due to their activity on the higher priority budget work. I'm not sure exactly where that leaves the bill as far as its future. I'm not sure whether once they get time to begin with it again, it will pick up where it is now, or whether they will go back to square one with it. The article in the New York Outdoor News wasn't clear on where the bills go from here, but they said that the bills died a "natural death" for this year ...... whatever that means.

Doc

[Lawdwaz]

Think of the money you saved!

Looks like an XP 100 R is in order,  that or a T/C Contender/Encore or a Savage Striker.  So much safer than a rifle. 

Idiots.

Go Paladino.

[Pygmy]

Doc... Sorry it hasn't happened yet... ....

BUT I can give you a VERY good deal on an XP-100 in .260 Rem.... ...

[WNYBuckHunter]

My Encore is just as legal as a shotgun, no worries here. 

[Doc]

I really had my heart set on a new gun and scope this year, but maybe having another year to save for it will mean that I can get a better quality rifle and have a little extra time to figure out exactly what I want. Anyway, what the heck, my shoulder cam take one more year with that 12 guage shoulder mangler. ;D

Doc