Any reason I shouldn't go with lighter arrows?

[fasteddie]

light arrow ---- Blip 

heavy arrow -- Thwack ! 

[chas0218]

I think a 200 grain arrow would end up half in his fore arm

I agree, i was just giving that as an example.

[dbHunterNY]

Sure about that?

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an arrow in a sense doesn't have lift because it's always in rotation and symmetrical vanes and blades cancel anything out.  also lift and the plane of an arrow in a direction from being pushed through the air crooked is different.

[dbHunterNY]

yea always start with limb bolts bottomed out and in your case don't go more than 12 full turns out.  hunting at range out to probably 30 yards you'll be fine without the speed.  question is would you rather get hit in the face with a heavier baseball or a pingpong ball?  people get KE as it relates to penetration confused.  think of KE as potential for penetration and arrow weight as momentum or actual penetration.

[chas0218]

an arrow in a sense doesn't have lift because it's always in rotation and symmetrical vanes and blades cancel anything out.  also lift and the plane of an arrow in a direction from being pushed through the air crooked is different.

So in your definition neither should a bullet, but we know a bullet has a trajectory similar to how an arrow would just the arrow is much shorter and not as drastic. 

[Buckmaster7600]

An arrow doesn't have lift because it lacks a planing surface!

Edited October 15, 2015 by Buckmaster7600

[dbHunterNY]

So in your definition neither should a bullet, but we know a bullet has a trajectory similar to how an arrow would just the arrow is much shorter and not as drastic. 

 

I don't follow what you're getting at.  a bullet doesn't have "lift" either.  it travels much farther because it's going way over 100 times faster.  trajectory is just the path of travel for an object in motion.  an airplane has lift with it's wings and doesn't fall out of the sky like a bullet or arrow.

[dbHunterNY]

anyways.... with the vane thing I don't know if it's been mentioned but a hair dryer will straighten them out completely if not a whole lot.  if you've got a whisker biscuit with two colored whiskers make sure none of your vanes are passing through the colored whiskers on the bottom center of the rest.  they're stiffer and will where out your vanes much quicker.

[Core]

I will give the hair dryer thing a go. The whisker biscuit is a full one (goes all the way around) with black on the bottom, but the vanes only pass through brown stuff.

 

An arrow flying out of the plane of its actual trajectory would potentially have lift (e.g. if you point an arrow up at a 45 degree angle but throw it horizontally so it's moving away from you but looking upward), because the air can push even against the cylindrical shaft a small amount, but since arrows don't move like this, and they are in line with their travel of movement, there won't be any lift on one. I suppose if you wanted to you could build an arrow with active vanes on the back and near the tip that steer it like a rocket, or a smart bomb. This would let you flatten its trajectory in theory completely flat, but at a given distance it would also arrive a bit slower. But imagine if you had only one pin set all through 70 yards and never had to adjust for distance. In the future all our arrows will have tiny cameras in the nose!

Edited October 15, 2015 by Core

[jjb4900]

I will give the hair dryer thing a go. The whisker biscuit is a full one (goes all the way around) with black on the bottom, but the vanes only pass through brown stuff.

 

An arrow flying out of the plane of its actual trajectory would potentially have lift (e.g. if you point an arrow up at a 45 degree angle but throw it horizontally so it's moving away from you but looking upward), because the air can push even against the cylindrical shaft a small amount, but since arrows don't move like this, and they are in line with their travel of movement, there won't be any lift on one. I suppose if you wanted to you could build an arrow with active vanes on the back and near the tip that steer it like a rocket, or a smart bomb. This would let you flatten its trajectory in theory completely flat, but at a given distance it would also arrive a bit slower. But imagine if you had only one pin set all through 70 yards and never had to adjust for distance. In the future all our arrows will have tiny cameras in the nose!

I need a nap after reading that.....

[shawnhu]

I will give the hair dryer thing a go. The whisker biscuit is a full one (goes all the way around) with black on the bottom, but the vanes only pass through brown stuff.

An arrow flying out of the plane of its actual trajectory would potentially have lift (e.g. if you point an arrow up at a 45 degree angle but throw it horizontally so it's moving away from you but looking upward), because the air can push even against the cylindrical shaft a small amount, but since arrows don't move like this, and they are in line with their travel of movement, there won't be any lift on one. I suppose if you wanted to you could build an arrow with active vanes on the back and near the tip that steer it like a rocket, or a smart bomb. This would let you flatten its trajectory in theory completely flat, but at a given distance it would also arrive a bit slower. But imagine if you had only one pin set all through 70 yards and never had to adjust for distance. In the future all our arrows will have tiny cameras in the nose!

Surprised no one else noticed this. In a tuned bow, there shouldn't be any lift. But place your knock low and see what happens to that arrow.

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[Buckmaster7600]

Surprised no one else noticed this. In a tuned bow, there shouldn't be any lift. But place your knock low and see what happens to that arrow.

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That's not lift that's tragectory.

[shawnhu]

That's not lift that's tragectory.

Moving the knock point low does not change the generally direction of where the bow is pointed, hence no change in trajectory, only change in exit angle of the arrow.

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[Buckmaster7600]

An arrow has no lift no matter what you do with your knock point! Other than killing its ke by not putting the full weight of the arrow begind your broad head. And even that at a certain distance will fix itself.

[Core]

I need a nap after reading that.....

Physics tires the mind.

[jjb4900]

Physics tires the mind.

especially mine.........

[dbHunterNY]

Moving the knock point low does not change the generally direction of where the bow is pointed, hence no change in trajectory, only change in exit angle of the arrow.

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that's not the definition of trajectory.  it's defined as the entire path of travel, not just the initial direction it's pointed.  in this ****ed hypothetic situation of someone productively shooting a bow so out of tune it's chucking arrows with nock end dragging low through the air.  you're not actually seeing lift.  the arrow shaft is forced to change the direction it's pointed by misalignment of the initial force pushing on it.  the surface area of the blades with fixed heads might add to turning the shaft more momentarily once it's already cooked.  the nock end of the shaft is then forced back into alignment with the heads trajectory.  it's position is changed but it's still falling.  when it hits the target it just appears like it isn't because a portion of the length of the arrow that changed position is significant compared to the arrows "drop" or vertical change along its trajectory.  lift requires an airfoil or solid surface that constantly changes the flow of air.  the reactive force of air then counteracts that weight of the object.  you don't have this surface that's constantly positioned to act as an airfoil to create lift.

...I'm done.

 

[shawnhu]

While you guys debated lift and POI, I went and got a new boat.

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[chas0218]

To be honest I, I don't really care long as my arrow hits where I aim.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Moving the knock point low does not change the generally direction of where the bow is pointed, hence no change in trajectory, only change in exit angle of the arrow.

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Which is trajectory, not lift.

[jjb4900]

so, did you decide on whether or not you should go with lighter arrows?

[Core]

so, did you decide on whether or not you should go with lighter arrows?

I did decide based on a preponderance of opinions contrary to lightning them up I decided to stay where I am after all. This was also cheaper when I bought new arrows because otherwise I would have had to ditch the old ones.

 

Now keep your eye out for a future thread in which I open up the vanes can of worms