Any reason I shouldn't go with lighter arrows?

[The_Real_TCIII]

I'm sure I will be chastised for this but you only 30lbs. of KE to kill a deer that being said don't expect to pass thru or blow through a shoulder.

 

ON the extreme and I do not recommend doing this but you could shoot a 200gr. arrow at 261fps and have enough energy to effectively kill a deer. So if you want to go lighter go for it, i doubt you will pick up the speed you are looking for. for every +/-5 grains you will get +/-1fps.

I think a 200 grain arrow would end up half in his fore arm

[WNYBuckHunter]

First things first, you are talking about a hunting bow, not a target bow. Light arrows are for targets, heavier arrows are for punching through bone, meat, tendon, etc. A pass through is preferred, and to do so, you need KE, which means you need weight to your arrow. At 52lbs draw, you need to be throwing a bit of weight to make sure you get the penetration when you hit a shoulder blade, or rib bone.

 

Second, throw that 316fps figure in the garbage and forget it, thats with a 5gpi arrow at max weight and 30 inch draw. With the bow set how you have it, you arent even close to that. Dont believe me? Shoot through a chrono and see what you get.

 

Third, get rid of the 4" vanes and go with Blazers or something similar, or get rid of the biscuit.

 

JMO

[The_Real_TCIII]

First things first, you are talking about a hunting bow, not a target bow. Light arrows are for targets, heavier arrows are for punching through bone, meat, tendon, etc. A pass through is preferred, and to do so, you need KE, which means you need weight to your arrow. At 52lbs draw, you need to be throwing a bit of weight to make sure you get the penetration when you hit a shoulder blade, or rib bone.

 

Second, throw that 316fps figure in the garbage and forget it, thats with a 5gpi arrow at max weight and 30 inch draw. With the bow set how you have it, you arent even close to that. Dont believe me? Shoot through a chrono and see what you get.

 

Third, get rid of the 4" vanes and go with Blazers or something similar, or get rid of the biscuit.

 

JMO

Exactly. You also left out bare string, no peep, loop, serving, silencers, etc. IBO speeds are rarely obtained

[Buckmaster7600]

It is physically impossible for you to loose 6" at 20-30 and 6" at 30-40. The second the arrow detaches drom the string it is slowing down and the speed of which it slows down is constantly increasing.[/quote

I don't think you are taking everything into account. It's definitely "physically" possible.

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An elementary understanding of a few basic laws of physics says that an object without propulsion will slow at an ever increasing rate. The slower an arrow is traveling the faster it will drop.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Buckmaster7600

[shawnhu]

ame="shawnhu" post="410399" timestamp="1444759904"]

An elementary understanding of a few basic laws of physics says that an object without proportion will slow at an ever increasing rate. The slower an arrow is traveling the faster it will drop.

Same can be said about a glider? How about a boomerang? A frisbee?

I think what you meant was propulsion, and not proportion, correct? In which case, none of the above has propulsion besides the initial release of the object.

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[Buckmaster7600]

Haha auto correct got me again! All of the things you have listed have "lift" an arrow does not.

[shawnhu]

Haha auto correct got me again! All of the things you have listed have "lift" an arrow does not.

Why does an arrow not have lift?

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[WNYBuckHunter]

Why does an arrow not have lift?

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It doesnt have any surfaces that create it.

[shawnhu]

Sure about that?

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[WNYBuckHunter]

Yep

[NFA-ADK]

I switched from a 340 to a 400 spine, works great.  Don't look back, with that weight you have the bow set 400's are good.  You could probably go even lighter, but I would have to check the charts. 

 

I get the same penetration from my 340's as I do with my 400's, that extra speed is worth it. 

 

Simply put if you misjudge distance by a few yards a slow bow will miss vs a fast bow will still hit your target.  When I misjudge a spot shooting 3D I am usually still in the 10 spot, the slower bows are lucky to stay in the 8 as the drop is greater.   Fast bow misjudge can be an inch or 2 drop vs slow 4-6 inch drop.

Edited October 13, 2015 by NFA-ADK

[WNYBuckHunter]

I switched from a 340 to a 400 spine, works great.  Don't look back, with that weight you have the bow set 400's are good.  You could probably go even lighter, but I would have to check the charts. 

 

I get the same penetration from my 340's as I do with my 400's, that extra speed is worth it. 

 

Simply put if you misjudge distance by a few yards a slow bow will miss vs a fast bow will still hit your target.  When I misjudge a spot shooting 3D I usually are still in the 10 spot, the slower bows are lucky to stay in the 8 as the drop is greater.   Fast bow misjudge can be an inch or 2 drop vs slow 4-6 inch drop.

 

 

He isnt talking about a slow bow vs a fast bow, hes talking a slow bow with a light arrow vs a slow bow with a heavier arrow lol. Are the few fps he will gain really be worth the loss of penetration?

[mt624]

It may only take "X" lbs of kinetic energy to kill a deer and you may nail 50 yard shots all day long at the range.  Then there's real world hunting situations where you need to allow for some margin of error and non-range conditions if you respect the animal at all.  This is where it can get a bit tricky and you're best to do some research to determine your own setup.  A gut shot kills a deer every time but can make recovery a real bitch and the animal suffers.  So when determining your setup, you should make your goal more than just what it takes to kill a deer... As many have said a field point will kill a deer, but we don't hunt with them. Research it a bit by reading articles about speed, kinetic energy, effective ranges and you will learn a lot.   

[Buckmaster7600]

Sure about that?

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Really?

If you are searching for 5-10 fps of arrow speed turn your bow up 1 crank you will likely not notice a 2-3pound heavier draw you will gain your velocity you want and you will be able to use your arrows sounds like a win, win, win to me.

[jjb4900]

why not just crank it up a few more pounds?......I don't see a need to shoot "dozens" of arrows at a time..........if you have been shooting a lot, the extra 3-5 pounds should be hardly noticeable.

[jjb4900]

I know a few guys that increase the draw weight for hunting and drop it back down in the off season when they're more into a target shooting mode........I doubt there are many on here who would have any trouble jacking up the draw weight a few weeks before the season and would have little if any trouble making the minor adjustments in their shooting to be ready to hunt. that's what I would do anyway.

[NFA-ADK]

ok but that is a heavy arrow for that poundage, it would be a big difference if he went down a size or two. 

He isnt talking about a slow bow vs a fast bow, hes talking a slow bow with a light arrow vs a slow bow with a heavier arrow lol. Are the few fps he will gain really be worth the loss of penetration?

 

[The_Real_TCIII]

There's an episode of North Woods Law where a game warden lectures a bow hunter for shooting a deer that was too close, he said the arrow needs to build up speed. I about fell off the couch laughing

[G-Man]

The problem is bows are most efficient at peak draw weight, so your.losing a ton of benifits on an expensive bow, when you could of just bought a bow that tops out at 55 and been at top end performance. , as for lighter arrows, to light and you'll shatter them as the radical cams force a lot of energy into them ...

[WNYBuckHunter]

ok but that is a heavy arrow for that poundage, it would be a big difference if he went down a size or two. 

 

 

is it? Wade through this thread and tally up the numbers on below 340 grains vs above 340 grains. Id say the consensus would say hes right on, or even a tad on the light side.

 

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2100935

[fasteddie]

I shoot 430 grain arrows out of a 60# and 70# bow . I wouldn't consider going lighter with an arrow . Speed doesn't kill . Accuracy does ! 

[nyslowhand]

Ahh, the annual debates about arrow wgt, Ke vs speed & trajectory, best vanes length and how dead is dead!

 

You shoot a lot of arrows to perfect your form and develop a muscle memory for the one shot you take while hunting is the exact same as you've practiced! IMHO, taking 5-6 shots at different intervals is better than 30+ at one time! Just me!

 

Advertised IBO arrow speeds are the same as the MPG on cars, both are done in lab conditions, by machines and remotely controlled. Neither are achievable by the consumer!

 

Lot of trade-offs about using lighter or heavier arrows. Do your research and decide what fits your bow/arrow s/u and hunting situation best! Neither speed nor Ke should be considered solely!

 

The one thing I would suggest that would help you immensely...Next summer when you get the bow out, play with your draw wgt. Figure out exactly how many turns on the limb screw it goes from your current ~52# to the max 70+#. Then back off each limb screw (evenly!) maybe 2/3 of what you originally tightened them. Should put you in the ~57-58# range. Evenly & exactly....keeps your cam(s) timing in sync! Doesn't sound like much, but should see less differences in consistent shot placement for guess-timated yardage variations. IF...you can still draw straight back and not do the old windmill draw. AND..still have a reasonable hold time at full draw! Assuming your bow is set for max let-off.

 

Good luck!

[Core]

There's an episode of North Woods Law where a game warden lectures a bow hunter for shooting a deer that was too close, he said the arrow needs to build up speed. I about fell off the couch laughing

Makes perfect sense if they are rocket-assisted arrows!

 

That is a telling thread over at archerytalk. I don't think anybody at my poundage is shooting lighter than I am, and most are shooting a tiny bit heavier. One guy even shoots 700 gr arrows, though that is unusually heavy, and cannot be flying very quickly.

[jjb4900]

I don't know if it's even comparable, but I don't know many traditional archers who shoot light arrows to get more speed for hunting...just the opposite, heavier for more penetration............but I may be totally wrong on that comparison.

[Core]

I don't know if it's even comparable, but I don't know many traditional archers who shoot light arrows to get more speed for hunting...just the opposite, heavier for more penetration............but I may be totally wrong on that comparison.

Reading some more stuff and also some details at http://archeryreport.com/I think you're right. I've learned that if I lighten my arrows I will very slightly lose kinetic energy, but more substantially will lose momentum. Found a cool chart here further down:

 

http://archeryreport.com/2011/01/heavy-vs-light-arrows-speed-power/

 

He is also gaining 1 fps when he drops every 3.5 grains from his arrows. I'm at 340 now. I cannot go lower than about 275, which would buy me around 18 FPS assuming similar numbers. I don't know what my bow is actually shooting, but for argument's sake say it's at 250 fps. This means that a lighter arrow would put me at around 32 yards in the time it currently takes an arrow to hit 30 yards. That's fairly meaningless at 30 yards. It would make a difference at a longer range like 50, but there are penetration compromises.

 

What I didn't expect when I started this thread was seeing data that if anything encourages me in general to go heavier for hunting, but that's what it seems to say!