Deer Movement Myth Dispelled

[Tacti_Steve]

I've heard that there was a study done more recently than this one here in NYS. If anyone has that or knows where I can get my hands on it I would be thankful. This study is a little old but as an avid houndsmen I can say it still holds true. While yes it is true that dogs are a natural predator for deer and if Deer are not used to human activity they spook off. The attached study proves however that this has no impact on their movements and Deer harvest. In fact while not statistically significant the data suggests Deer harvests increase. 

 

Why is that? Well lets think about it. How many times have you gone to a public park and seen Deer at the other end of the field from a kids soccer game? They get used to the activity. Likewise, they can get used to activity in the woods where you hunt. I make a habit of Raccoon hunting the properties I Deer hunt and often will hunt the night before I Deer hunt. I will even go set up a spot to sit the next day. This gets the Deer used to my scent and people moving around the woods. 

 

Now I'm not saying that if a Deer walks by and smells me they're not going to care. It gets their attention. But they become used to the smell and activity and do not spook off as easily. I wouldn't do it if it didn't work. 

 

Additionally Hound Hunters reduce the number of predators (like Coyotes) and the number of other animals competing for the same food sources. Therefore helping the Deer herd to thrive. 

 

I offer two similar supporting examples. One of the property owners, of a property I both Raccoon and Deer hunt, mows and maintains trails on the property until two months before Deer season. This becomes normal activity to the Deer. Likewise, when he stops, the lack of activity becomes normal. Therefore when suddenly everyone begins using the trails again during the Deer season the Deer spook off. I'm not saying this changes their patterns or overall movement. Neither event does that. The Deer bed, travel, and eat wherever they're going to. I'm saying the change makes the hunt more difficult.

 

Likewise, when (and this is probably most people) hunters do not enter a piece of property all year, until right before the season when they go in quickly and blaze new trails and setup their stands; they are creating activity that is not "normal" to the Deer. Yet countless times you'll hear a Deer hunters say ah that doesn't bother them. I see them on that trail the very next day. So why would a hound hunter being out there bother them? 

 

What does happen though in that situation is the Deer spooks off when the hunter is sitting in their stand, because it is not used to the activity in the woods. This also goes for the guys who only hunt the borders of properties. Of course they spook off if you go into the property to track your Deer. Because you never go in there. 

 

The point is Hound Hunting does not impact overall Deer movement. If anything it improves Deer harvest and helps your Deer management. Also whatever you do on your property do it consistently. Going out and sitting in a stand for one month out of the year is not consistent. Find some Hound Hunters and ask them to hunt your property!

raccoonimpact.pdf

[Doc]

So, I guess all those white tails and butts that I see when I'm taking one of my many hikes in the woods is just the deer ignoring me because they have gotten accustomed to my presence. I'm not sure I really buy into all of that. 

 

I believe that I have seen evidence contrary to that on the state land where they have installed a maze of mountain bike trails that are constantly used all summer by bikers and hikers. I really have not seen deer standing there ignoring me (at any distance) over there even if I stay on one of those trails.

[Tacti_Steve]

I walk less than 20 yards from Deer at least once a week at night while hunting. My dog does the same thing. And I'm not saying they don't spook. But spooking a Deer doesn't mean it impacts the hunting the next morning. So they bound off 50 yards and go back to what they were doing. The point is I run across so many people that when I ask for permission to hound hunt their land they say no they Deer hunt it and allowing hound hunters out there will disturb their Deer. Or the several properties I can hunt but not during Deer season. The study proves there is no negative impact on Deer hunting by hound hunting the same property. 

[growalot]

Well Doc...you've read my saying what his post is about for years...I can walk by them and they stand and watch...I can drive the gator within yards of them and they just move off slowly...I have even been working on blinds ,hammering, to look up and see both deer and Turkey standing in front of the blind.

Camp where no one is.just slow down on. The road and they are running for the next valley.

It is all in how you move around them and how often.

[Jeremy K]

We can't even walk the edge of a field without sending the deer running for cover that are over 300 yards away . I would love to hunt me some tame deer that just stood around to see if i was gonna harm them.

[growalot]

Spend more time on your property...I'm blessed to be out on ours

ever single day ...several times a day...The fawns are left here all summer and hunting season...I make an effort to get each ,years fawn group very use to my presences...I even have pics of a flock of wild turkey. That allowed me to walk among them taking pictures...posted those here as well.

[thphtm]

Same here they do get use. To you of you are out there every day doing chores on your property. I have,had them just stand there and,look,at,me while,going by them on my tractor or a tv only 10 feet from me. But when you are not that active during the week they do get spooked and Leary of you .This happened this year , I was not out there every day because of my open heart surgery, when O did get out there, they would look at me and walk away slowly and not stand. There and watch me.

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[nyantler]

Well Doc...you've read my saying what his post is about for years...I can walk by them and they stand and watch...I can drive the gator within yards of them and they just move off slowly...I have even been working on blinds ,hammering, to look up and see both deer and Turkey standing in front of the blind.

Camp where no one is.just slow down on. The road and they are running for the next valley.

It is all in how you move around them and how often.

I tend to agree with you here... deer display different tolerance levels based on their interactions with humans... suburban deer are use to human scent and their tolerance for humans is greater than deer that have little human contact and they tend to stick around until they feel threatened. Deep woods ADK deer have little or no tolerance for humans and usually vacate the area long before you get to see them.

I have found that deer in Maine, a heavily forested and logged state, will run just a short distance when bumped then stop and watch to assess the danger level. I can only guess that it is because they are constantly getting bumped by loggers and other foresters, but have learned that those humans pose no threat to them and simply go about what they were doing. It makes it nice when you're tracking a buck and bump him from his bed and know he won't run more than 25-30 yards before stopping to check things out... Bang! you're dead!

[Tacti_Steve]

I'm glad there are others out there that recognize that. Whenever I talk to someone that only Deer hunts they get combative and don't believe me. It seems like the only people that think this way are houndsmen. I don't like that. I like for us all to share and enjoy the woods.

[shawnhu]

Eye contact is everything. Play dumb and pay them no mind, and they usually do the same to you. The more you want to see them, the more likely they'll feel threatened and take off.

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[Doc]

I guess it must vary depending on where you are and maybe even the kinds of pressure they receive. We don't have any of those "tame" deer .... lol. When they see a hunter, they know exactly what to do. I have seen them hold tight in cover and let you walk incredibly close to them. Most of the time that tactic works great for them. I have also seen them sprint off a ways and then check you out. I guess those are the curious ones that think that they have put enough distance between you that they can out-run you. But other than parks and urban situations, I have never seen any that became domesticated by armies of people traipsing through the woods. I suspect that many of those that might look like they are getting conditioned to people are likely fawns that have no base of experience with people to decide exactly what to do.

[Tacti_Steve]

I agree there are different kinds of pressure. Obviously shooting at them is going to back impact their movement. patterns. And I'm not saying Deer don't spook. I'm talking about their over all movement. My point is hound hunting does not scare that big buck off the property like everyone thinks it does. It doesn't load the property up with scent so that they never come back. They simply spook to point where they feel safe and go back to what they were doing.

 

Now sure if you get a whole bunch of guys a drive the woods for a week straight they're going to leave for a while. That's different then how houndsmen hunt. YOu get a few hounds maybe once or twice a week making a munch of noise so the Deer know where they're at; a couple of guys with big lights on their head. An hour or two later they're gone.

 

Or in the case of yote hunters you get a bunch of hounds running and making noise and a group of guys standing around the boarder of the property. And then they're gone a few hours later. I just don't understand where the idea came from that people think this is so bad for their Deer population and how this is going to scare off their big buck.

 

Last summer I ran into a guy out where I run and he was mad I was running the dog. It wasn't his land so he couldn't tell me to get off. But he says well I guess that's why we didn't see any Deer last year out here. I replied with I shot two. I wanted to tell him the reason was because he and his guys drove the piss out of it everyday for a week. But no its me that scares them all away. 

[landtracdeerhunter]

Spend more time on your property...I'm blessed to be out on ours

ever single day ...several times a day...The fawns are left here all summer and hunting season...I make an effort to get each ,years fawn group very use to my presences...I even have pics of a flock of wild turkey. That allowed me to walk among them taking pictures...posted those here as well.

 

When the doe fawns start following you into the lawn, it's time to educate them.

[Tacti_Steve]

When the doe fawns start following you into the lawn, it's time to educate them.

I consider that well trained.

[nyantler]

I guess it must vary depending on where you are and maybe even the kinds of pressure they receive. We don't have any of those "tame" deer .... lol. When they see a hunter, they know exactly what to do. I have seen them hold tight in cover and let you walk incredibly close to them. Most of the time that tactic works great for them. I have also seen them sprint off a ways and then check you out. I guess those are the curious ones that think that they have put enough distance between you that they can out-run you. But other than parks and urban situations, I have never seen any that became domesticated by armies of people traipsing through the woods. I suspect that many of those that might look like they are getting conditioned to people are likely fawns that have no base of experience with people to decide exactly what to do.

I'm thinking that deer get more comfortable maybe depending on the amount of human contact... but I haven't encountered what I would call "tame" deer either.

[skully]

I know when I had hounds we use to run every deer out of the area chasing fox.  Sometimes they use to run right across the main rd to get away from us.

[Tacti_Steve]

I know when I had hounds we use to run every deer out of the area chasing fox.  Sometimes they use to run right across the main rd to get away from us.

Interesting in the 15 years I've been running hounds I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've run deer completely out of a 100 acres plot aside from them just kicking across a wide open field.

[skully]

especially when they were running gray fox in the thick stuff and the deer had no where to hide.  They would shoot right across the street to safety.......

[Tacti_Steve]

But they returned right...It didn't truly upset their pattern or movements.

[skully]

sure they returned but usually not within a couple of days so yes I would say it totally upset there pattern and movements.........

[growalot]

 

I would say it totally upset there pattern and movements.........

 

I suppose you could really only know that if you know their pattern in the first place....Here  doe and buck are on a 2 to, usually for buck, 3 day rotation...It takes them that much time to make their "rounds" around the hill. Now fawns stick to a strict scheduled...but once they have gone through their first winter and are in a group with a lead doe they to go to a wide home range.

[Tacti_Steve]

And that is what this study did was understand their normal patterns and movements and then introduced hound hunting to the area to see its impact. And there was a control area right next to it, to ensure other environmental factors were accounted for. It was a really well done study.

[Tacti_Steve]

sure they returned but usually not within a couple of days so yes I would say it totally upset there pattern and movements.........

In this instance we'll have to agree to disagree. I like though that you are the first houndsmen I've run into that has thought that way. 

[growalot]

Well I was going to post some pics but the site won't except my pics now...even when resized to 200x300 which is pretty tiny...says files to big...what size file do you see it will except....

[Tacti_Steve]

I haven't done pictures on this site yet. Can you try posting them to photobucket or a site the like and then use the img /img on the url? Are they pictures of a different study? 

Edited January 16, 2016 by Tacti_Steve