Crossbow exemptions for those over 60

[stoneam2006]

There is an easy solution to this....

First 2 weeks trad only

2nd 2 weeks compound only

3rd 2 weeks xbow only

Then everyone has their own time to be out there and if you happen to be good enough to use all 3 your lucky if not have your 2 weeks and wait for gun season

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Edit this is not what I want but I believe most against xbows don't want to give up their time in the woods just like xbow guys want more

Edited June 8, 2016 by stoneam2006

[Jmp209]

I think deer density and control is a different issue that should be addressed by DEC on a local level like you mention. BUT, if you can go hunt with your compound legally based on those densities, I see no reason why anyone should be prohibited from using a crossbow in the same area.

They kind of go hand in hand though, bow/muzzleloader tags can be used in any area during their respective seasons. I'm not sure how that could be controlled at a local level. I think no matter what decision is made some will be happy and some will hate it. If it had no major negative impacts on deer populations and allowed more people to enjoy the season then I don't oppose certain changes. I just get the impression that many hunters are getting a sense of entitlement that they should be able to choose when, how and where they hunt with no regards to deer management. That's statement is not directed at you in any way nor is it about QDM.

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[Jmp209]

There is an easy solution to this....

First 2 weeks trad only

2nd 2 weeks compound only

3rd 2 weeks xbow only

Then everyone has their own time to be out there and if you happen to be good enough to use all 3 your lucky if not have your 2 weeks and wait for gun season

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Edit this is not what I want but I believe most against xbows don't want to give up their time in the woods just like xbow guys want more

Why should some be punished with a shorter season that they've always hunted to be equal with people who just want more?

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[moog5050]

They kind of go hand in hand though, bow/muzzleloader tags can be used in any area during their respective seasons. I'm not sure how that could be controlled at a local level. I think no matter what decision is made some will be happy and some will hate it. If it had no major negative impacts on deer populations and allowed more people to enjoy the season then I don't oppose certain changes. I just get the impression that many hunters are getting a sense of entitlement that they should be able to choose when, how and where they hunt with no regards to deer management. That's statement is not directed at you in any way nor is it about QDM.

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I kind of see your point in saying that a crossbow may allow for more kills in a given season, but I don't think DEC takes into account the point you are raising when setting tag limits so it really is a separate issue. Would DEC lower tag numbers if crossbows are included? I don't think so. Just my opinion.

[stoneam2006]

Why should some be punished with a shorter season that they've always hunted to be equal with people who just want more?

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Why should people who are willing to adapt with technology be punished and have a shorter season? It's still a string projected arrow and point. Archery

And we are still talking a required bow course

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Edited June 8, 2016 by stoneam2006

[Bowguy 1]

I kind of see your point in saying that a crossbow may allow for more kills in a given season, but I don't think DEC takes into account the point you are raising when setting tag limits so it really is a separate issue. Would DEC lower tag numbers if crossbows are included? I don't think so. Just my opinion.

Guys I don't see the crossbow alone doing much damage even though I dont like em they are limited range. The number of guys who try may increase n that could up the harvest. Bear in mind guys who don't bowhunt may not automatically get within the 20 yards or so. Don't think crossbows alone w decimate herds

[stoneam2006]

Guys I don't see the crossbow alone doing much damage even though I dont like em they are limited range. The number of guys who try may increase n that could up the harvest. Bear in mind guys who don't bowhunt may not automatically get within the 20 yards or so. Don't think crossbows alone w decimate herds

Well said and those who never bow hunted may not go get the course either. So realistically it will be more compound guys switching over or using both

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[Jmp209]

I kind of see your point in saying that a crossbow may allow for more kills in a given season, but I don't think DEC takes into account the point you are raising when setting tag limits so it really is a separate issue. Would DEC lower tag numbers if crossbows are included? I don't think so. Just my opinion.

None of us know how it would all play out exactly, hence why there's so many opinions. If the decision were to be made to allow crossbows I just want to make sure it is for the right reasons and not just to appease a group of people who want more. I think it could be an excellent opportunity for some people if it's not a "rob Peter to pay Paul" kind of deal. Like someone else previously posted, I'm not in the fight against them but I'm also not going to fight for them.

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[Jmp209]

Why should people who are willing to adapt with technology be punished and have a shorter season? It's still a string projected arrow and point. Archery

And we are still talking a required bow course

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I don't see it as a punishment to the crossbow hunters. They have 2 more weeks than they ever have before and a lot of it still seems to boil down to "but, they have more!" If crossbows prove to be no problem at all then I'm not against increasing their use. I just think it is something that should be eased into and see how it's implementation plays out before going whole hog and allowing them all archery season.

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[stoneam2006]

I don't see it as a punishment to the crossbow hunters. They have 2 more weeks than they ever have before and a lot of it still seems to boil down to "but, they have more!" If crossbows prove to be no problem at all then I'm not against increasing their use. I just think it is something that should be eased into and see how it's implementation plays out before going whole hog and allowing them all archery season.

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They have been legal for 2 years and have caused 0 issues...they were eased in and that was without being required to have the course. Now full inclusion with required bow course should be passed. IMO

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[Jmp209]

They have been legal for 2 years and have caused 0 issues...they were eased in and that was without being required to have the course. Now full inclusion with required bow course should be passed. IMO

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I can back them to an extent but I don't think I'll ever agree that everyone should be allowed to use them during the entire archery season. My opinion means very little when it comes to making the laws and should matter even less to those that choose to use one. If it's legal and ethical then nobody should be shamed for their choices but it also doesn't mean that there shouldn't be exclusions to their choice. Not all things in life can be equal, someone's always going to have more than someone else.

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[stubby68]

So what's wrong w powder burning guns? Let anyone chose their challenge level. I think we shouldn't discriminate. Let em all in.

The same weak arguements imo for the crossbow. It's a step up from this, which was a step up from that etc. Supposed to be a "primitive" season. Next step from crossbow is a rifle so let's just skip a step n be done?

 

    A Crossbow is no more primitive then a compound. Heck Crossbows were around before compounds, hundreds of years before. A flint lock in a lot of ways is as if not more primitive then a compound.So if it is suppose to be primitive then you would have no problem with flints then?

[stubby68]

Why should some be punished with a shorter season that they've always hunted to be equal with people who just want more?

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          How many times has a bow hunter said shorten gun season and make bow season longer? I will tell you too many to count. Was not too many years ago bow hunters got  2 weeks added to there season. They wanted it and got it. Gun hunters wanted more time as well but they didn't get it. Heck some years because of the way the dates fall gun hunters lose days and bow gains. Bet you don't have problem with that.

[Jmp209]

How many times has a bow hunter said shorten gun season and make bow season longer? I will tell you too many to count. Was not too many years ago bow hunters got 2 weeks added to there season. They wanted it and got it. Gun hunters wanted more time as well but they didn't get it. Heck some years because of the way the dates fall gun hunters lose days and bow gains. Bet you don't have problem with that.

As I've said before, one of my biggest concerns with full inclusion would be an increased harvest in areas that are already low. In my area deer numbers are low and all I hear are complaints about there being no deer. Do you think including another implement for a longer amount of time will help that situation? Will success rates during archery season not increase due to use of a crossbow? Can you honestly say these decisions won't affect the harvest rates in any negative manner? How many people who are pushing for full inclusion are looking at the big picture and not just trying to get a bigger piece of the pie? My stance on the issue will probably never change, I'm not fighting against it but nobody has given me a good reason to support it either. All I've heard is "they have something, why shouldn't I?" When was rifle season shortened that allowed for archers to have more time afield?

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[Buckmaster7600]

I have always looked at archery season as something you earn, you have to put time in to become proficient with a vertical bow traditional or compound. That is lost when you allow Xbows in archery. I'm not against Xbows because I believe they are inevitable but I also do not go out of my way to support them. As far as youth, disabled or "elderly" I have no problem with them using them but it will be very difficult to manage. I have always said that "elderly" should be included in the youth season. What age makes you "elderly" I don't know but I have a 95 year old neighbor whom still hunts and I couldn't imagine that any hunter in the world would have a problem with him and others in his position getting "first wack" at getting their deer.

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Edited June 8, 2016 by Buckmaster7600

[Jmp209]

I have always looked at archery season as something you earn, you have to put time in to become proficient with a vertical bow traditional or compound. That is lost when you allow Xbows in archery. I'm not against Xbows because I believe they are inevitable but I also do not go out of my way to support them. As far as youth, disabled or "elderly" I have no problem with them using them but it will be very difficult to manage. I have always said that "elderly" should be included in the youth season. What age makes you "elderly" I don't know but I have a 95 year old neighbor whom still hunts and I couldn't imagine that any hunter in the world would have a problem with him and others in his position getting "first wack" at getting their deer.

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Thats pretty much exactly how I feel on the situation. To me its not as simple as being dead for or against. Every scenario is different.

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[Buck_shooter]

[Buck_shooter]

[SteveB]

Steve they aren't archery equipment no matter how guys twist it imo

They are according to the IBO, several other archery organizations, and way more than 50% of the states.

There is one reason that someone chooses a compound over a trad bow - they want or need something easier.

There is no other - trad bows have been used effectively for 1000's of years. Just have to put in the time to become proficient and/or accept some limitations.

Kind of funny how 2 recurve hunters on this thread support full inclusion, but some compounders want their level if easy to be the bar.

There is a word for that.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

So what's wrong w powder burning guns? Let anyone chose their challenge level. I think we shouldn't discriminate. Let em all in.

The same weak arguements imo for the crossbow. It's a step up from this, which was a step up from that etc. Supposed to be a "primitive" season. Next step from crossbow is a rifle so let's just skip a step n be done?

Compound is primitive? that is precious. 

 

[stoneam2006]

They are according to the IBO, several other archery organizations, and way more than 50% of the states.

There is one reason that someone chooses a compound over a trad bow - they want or need something easier.

There is no other - trad bows have been used effectively for 1000's of years. Just have to put in the time to become proficient and/or accept some limitations.

Kind of funny how 2 recurve hunters on this thread support full inclusion, but some compounders want their level if easy to be the bar.

There is a word for that.

Like x100000

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[Bowguy 1]

A Crossbow is no more primitive then a compound. Heck Crossbows were around before compounds, hundreds of years before. A flint lock in a lot of ways is as if not more primitive then a compound.So if it is suppose to be primitive then you would have no problem with flints then?

Let me see I think gunpowder was invented in the 9th century, the crossbow was a couple hundred before but the bow is at least 64,000 years old with arrows found believed 71,000 years old. The bow is the most primitive weapon.

None of this matters what matters is the idea behind the seasons. We're sport hunters, in order to make things sporting we make things harder. I understand the mentality of some that all get to play, everyone gets a prize.

If that's the way you wanna go n it's legal so be it. I'll never consider it archery though

[Bowguy 1]

Wonder how Steve feels he has any idea what guys use? Assumptions are never good

[Bowguy 1]

Compound is primitive? that is precious.

It's the idea behind a season. We know none of it is primitive. Id be the first guy to raise his hand if it actually went really primitive. It'd be great. Making your own stuff, practicing, woodsmanship. Leave an awful lot of guys going hungry.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Bowguy 1

[stubby68]

As I've said before, one of my biggest concerns with full inclusion would be an increased harvest in areas that are already low. In my area deer numbers are low and all I hear are complaints about there being no deer. Do you think including another implement for a longer amount of time will help that situation? Will success rates during archery season not increase due to use of a crossbow? Can you honestly say these decisions won't affect the harvest rates in any negative manner? How many people who are pushing for full inclusion are looking at the big picture and not just trying to get a bigger piece of the pie? My stance on the issue will probably never change, I'm not fighting against it but nobody has given me a good reason to support it either. All I've heard is "they have something, why shouldn't I?" When was rifle season shortened that allowed for archers to have more time afield?

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                      No I can not say it will not affect harvest rates. A lot of areas I hunt are low in deer numbers as well. In those areas would be good to cut back on all hunting not just keep others out.                    

                        In one of my areas  we have a little over 400 acres. Deer numbers were low. the previous owners were big bow hunters so too much bang bang was not the problem. We stopped all bow hunting and cut back on hunting it with guns. Been 3 years now and we are seeing some improvement. Still no bow hunting and never will be, even crossbow.

                          Last year 20150 gun season 3 weeks bow was 7 weeks. in 2014 gun was 4 weeks bow was 6. looks like 2016 will see a 3 week gun season  and bow will be 1 day shy of 7 weeks.  Like I said some years bow gains gun looses . Bow season use to start on the 15th that was changed to the 1st for an opener. That gave bows 2 more weeks.

                            My point is do not cry about other hunters wanting more when bow hunters get more then they do. If tables were turned and gun had more then bow , you would want some of that.

 

                              For the record I do not want bows or crossbows in the woods.And no I do not want to gun hunt that time of year. Anything that has no possibilty of killing an animal where it stands should not be used. Cutting a deer with a razor and letting run until it bleeds out is cruel in my book. That however is a point for another day. Stated this to show you i am not for crossbows. I am however against bow hunters alwasy trying to make this all about them.