now is your chance to tell D.E.C. WHATS WRONG WITH DEER MANAGEMENT

[WNYBuckHunter]

[Buckmaster7600]

I avoid these types of "events" because there is usually a few idiots in the crowd that ruin it for everyone because their ideas are the only ones that matter. I will certainly try to log in and watch but given my experience with the governments use of technology there will be some type of glitch and it won't work.

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Edited May 3, 2016 by Buckmaster7600

[Larry]

I’m pretty happy with the way things are. The DEC has given us the ability to manage deer if you own land the way you want. You can put antler restriction on your land or not. You can say no does can be killed or if you want to kill more does you can get DMAPs or even deer damage permits. The only thing I would like to see is the late southern bow season go into January and crossbow though the whole bow season.

[Doc]

I’m pretty happy with the way things are. The DEC has given us the ability to manage deer if you own land the way you want. You can put antler restriction on your land or not. You can say no does can be killed or if you want to kill more does you can get DMAPs or even deer damage permits.

Yes, that is one thing that has not really been talked about all that much. The conflict between the sanctity of private property ownership rights, and the fact that the transient property (deer) that wanders from one owner's property to another also has to be managed. That is a management task that is unlike anything that other government agencies are challenged with. I think when you look at how the DEC has to juggle those two conflicting tasks and the fact that so much of that is completely out of their control, perhaps they really are not doing that bad of a job.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Doc

[Larry]

Well said doc
I forgot one more thing it’s something I hate but we are not doing are part. The DEC at lease for a few years have MANDTORY REPORTING ON ALL DEER TAGS USED AND UNUSED. With the fine being you don’t receive the tag or tags you didn’t report on the next season and the fine is not assess till after you have paid for the tag or tags. At the very lease this would validate how well their harvest estimates are, and force us to do what we should have been doing all along.

[Doc]

Well said doc

I forgot one more thing it’s something I hate but we are not doing are part. The DEC at lease for a few years have MANDTORY REPORTING ON ALL DEER TAGS USED AND UNUSED. With the fine being you don’t receive the tag or tags you didn’t report on the next season and the fine is not assess till after you have paid for the tag or tags. At the very lease this would validate how well their harvest estimates are, and force us to do what we should have been doing all along.

I absolutely agree with the mandatory reporting of each tag issued (successful or not), but I think one thing that the DEC is a bit goosey about making the next years tags dependent on complying with the reporting law is that they do not want to be denying antlerless permits because they apparently are already suffering for lack of doe harvest participation. The fine should be a financial one that is designed to sting a little bit. The thing that would make them obey this law is the knowledge that the computer would catch you and there is no way to escape that. A simple sort on tags issued, vs. tags reported would instantly pop out a list of violators. In fact if you wanted to get fancy, you could have the computer issue warning notices after the close of the season, followed up by an actual fine notice if there was not immediate compliance within a two week window.

[G-Man]

Fines and tag reporting can't happen as there is no guarantee of a season the next year, we do not have the right to hunt and fish and season is contingent on the lawmakers passing it every year. .. just think you do that and now you can't get a tag if you have any out standing debt,or parking ticket, ect.. best Way to manage our game, get the right to hunt and fish in nys constitution to be managed by a game department.. then your monies go toward game amd game management, more ecos,biologists, wildlife staff in general. .. that would be sonething!

[Doc]

Fines and tag reporting can't happen as there is no guarantee of a season the next year, we do not have the right to hunt and fish and season is contingent on the lawmakers passing it every year. .. just think you do that and now you can't get a tag if you have any out standing debt,or parking ticket, ect.. best Way to manage our game, get the right to hunt and fish in nys constitution to be managed by a game department.. then your monies go toward game amd game management, more ecos,biologists, wildlife staff in general. .. that would be sonething!

I often thought that NYS should have a dedicated department that puts all of its resources toward fish and wildlife management. But then, I wonder if that kind of division wouldn't still result in parceling out inadequate resources. There is nothing that guarantees additional wildlife resources just because a new Fish and Game department is constructed. The fact is that the DEC has dedicated those kinds of sub-divisions already. Unfortunately the man at the top is a political appointee whose loyalties are not toward the department, but rather to the governor that appointed them. And there will always be a "man at the top" whose interests may or may not be dedicated to fish and wildlife activities instead of the political interests of his benefactor.

[G-Man]

I often thought that NYS should have a dedicated department that puts all of its resources toward fish and wildlife management. But then, I wonder if that kind of division wouldn't still result in parceling out inadequate resources. There is nothing that guarantees additional wildlife resources just because a new Fish and Game department is constructed. The fact is that the DEC has dedicated those kinds of sub-divisions already. Unfortunately the man at the top is a political appointee whose loyalties are not toward the department, but rather to the governor that appointed them. And there will always be a "man at the top" whose interests may or may not be dedicated to fish and wildlife activities instead of the political interests of his benefactor.

Well if it was a seperate fish and game department it would be a lot harder to shift monies to enviromental projects from licenses and Robertson putting taxes. Now all thay have to do is write in improve habitat and the money goes to replace boilers in nyc. Tracking funds would be much easier as its one department instead of 50 ..

[Doc]

Well if it was a seperate fish and game department it would be a lot harder to shift monies to enviromental projects from licenses and Robertson putting taxes. Now all thay have to do is write in improve habitat and the money goes to replace boilers in nyc. Tracking funds would be much easier as its one department instead of 50 ..

That is true. Things would be much easier to keep track of with a lot better transparency.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Fines and tag reporting can't happen as there is no guarantee of a season the next year, we do not have the right to hunt and fish and season is contingent on the lawmakers passing it every year. .. just think you do that and now you can't get a tag if you have any out standing debt,or parking ticket, ect.. best Way to manage our game, get the right to hunt and fish in nys constitution to be managed by a game department.. then your monies go toward game amd game management, more ecos,biologists, wildlife staff in general. .. that would be sonething!

 

They dont need a season for 2016 to fine you for not reporting your 2015 tags.

[G-Man]

They dont need a season for 2016 to fine you for not reporting your 2015 tags.

If no season how do I get my fine? I can see paying it to get new licence. . Or do we have to create a new organization to collect fines ?

[gjs4]

They don't want to fine people for not reporting tags for two reasons-

1) it gives them all sorts of leeway in creating how the "the other 60%" of the harvest went

2) it would reduce license sales, including fraudulent (spouses, etc) other ones through data ackonowledgment

 

The DEC is about making Albany happy- not you as the hunter. If you're one of the few fine posters on here thanking them for their job- you're probably bordering someone who manages their land and reap the benefits, and further setting back their goals because rest assured the DCE doesn't know animal numbers they just doctor the take ones.

[dbHunterNY]

Fines and tag reporting can't happen as there is no guarantee of a season the next year, we do not have the right to hunt and fish and season is contingent on the lawmakers passing it every year. .. just think you do that and now you can't get a tag if you have any out standing debt,or parking ticket, ect.. best Way to manage our game, get the right to hunt and fish in nys constitution to be managed by a game department.. then your monies go toward game amd game management, more ecos,biologists, wildlife staff in general. .. that would be sonething!

 

after last night I'm looking through some of this again.  I agree with Doc about fines but I completely agree DEC's game department needs pull.  i get things like discharge setbacks that are controlled by the legislative body.  however, some things just have no place going through the legislative body every year.

[dbHunterNY]

They don't want to fine people for not reporting tags for two reasons-

1) it gives them all sorts of leeway in creating how the "the other 60%" of the harvest went

2) it would reduce license sales, including fraudulent (spouses, etc) other ones through data ackonowledgment

 

The DEC is about making Albany happy- not you as the hunter. If you're one of the few fine posters on here thanking them for their job- you're probably bordering someone who manages their land and reap the benefits, and further setting back their goals because rest assured the DCE doesn't know animal numbers they just doctor the take ones.

 

DEC to save face and function extrapolates data and does field data collection at places like deer processors.  They've openly said it would be better if hunters reported their take, more so than they do now.  2% confidence factor is built into modeling sure.  no model will ever be as good as more complete actual harvest records.  DEC has said it would help and it's against the law not to report, so all hunters should be reporting their take.  we all understand lax attitude is a precedent, but if we care anything about hunting we should be changing to report our harvest.  luckily people who manage their land are most likely getting DMAPs and they're most likely the most accurately reported and recorded by DEC.

 

[dbHunterNY]

anyone link into watch the webinar last night?  anyone go to an actual location?  most likely Q&A content after with each DEC staff/biologist had more to discuss.

[b3h]

Yep. Webinar. Pretty much just a presentation.

Ol dog on a stray

[Larry]

going on tonight had to work on the 10th

[gjs4]

_{same presentation as the spew at the QDMA one}

 

_{love the insertion of personal opinions after options- such as the impending September ML season.}

[dbHunterNY]

_{same presentation as the spew at the QDMA one}

 

_{love the insertion of personal opinions after options- such as the impending September ML season.}

 

like I previously posted probably the Q&A session after had more beneficial info.  the presentation was pretty basic for those who are already "plugged in" as to is going on with DEC with respect to deer.

[gjs4]

like I previously posted probably the Q&A session after had more beneficial info.  the presentation was pretty basic for those who are already "plugged in" as to is going on with DEC with respect to deer.

 

I agree BUT I was unable to chat in a question and after the first question was asked it cut out midresponse. I couldn't get back on. Was there any good discussion or just the words from the clouds?

 

Find it so darn sad we are wasting our license dollars on so many tangent (though essentially non related) issues....CWD, lead fragments in meat, dying raptors.......I feel like every conversation with the DEC hierarchy is just like a parent saying "because I said so".

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I agree BUT I was unable to chat in a question and after the first question was asked it cut out midresponse. I couldn't get back on. Was there any good discussion or just the words from the clouds?

 

Find it so darn sad we are wasting our license dollars on so many tangent (though essentially non related) issues....CWD, lead fragments in meat, dying raptors.......I feel like every conversation with the DEC hierarchy is just like a parent saying "because I said so".

Well they are DEC and it does include more than just deer but to waste money on things like CWD any longer is just pissing it away and any monies spent on Raptors and such should come from other than big game permit dollars.

[gjs4]

Absolutely. The lead in meat campaign should come from the DOH. Total crap.

I wish hunters could think this chit out and push back. Around 50mill a year in NY hunting licenses... Don't you wonder where it goes and what you should get back?

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[dbHunterNY]

I agree BUT I was unable to chat in a question and after the first question was asked it cut out midresponse. I couldn't get back on. Was there any good discussion or just the words from the clouds?

 

Find it so darn sad we are wasting our license dollars on so many tangent (though essentially non related) issues....CWD, lead fragments in meat, dying raptors.......I feel like every conversation with the DEC hierarchy is just like a parent saying "because I said so".

 

wasn't much time for discussion.  audience asked how much or further how they are going to promote protection of yearling bucks.  it wasn't yet known and still being thought about on how to proceed, with an emphasis on leaving it voluntary decision.  their data they've seemed to collect and draw conclusions from didn't seem to show the need to do otherwise.  lot of folks from different walks of life asking about antler restrictions but the questions were rephrased or pretty much ignored.  including if DEC intends to take another look at those areas with forced antler restrictions.  the areas and hunter satisfaction hasn't really been looked into since their implementation.  DEC said they had no current intentions to re-evaluate hunter satisfaction in those areas.  so for better or worse those areas are stuck with them legislatively for now with no idea if should be removed or kept. other generalized public concerns related to deer and ticks.  as well as urban deer population control were brought up that really can't be answered other than it's always being looked at and anything to help would be evaluated and if appropriate implemented.  other stuff in relation to buck management zones that were created were asked about and touched on.  the zones were created for the hunter satisfaction study that was done.  they would be a great platform and basis for implementing future management decisions but nothing is currently decided on for the near future.  current deer management plan ended in 2016 with nothing falling right in line for 2017.  in overly deer populated areas, Hurst seemed to now have preference to extending early bow seasons into September, over an insertion of an early muzzleloader season, and have that portion be antlerless only.  he seemed to now be onboard with ditching anything that'd restrict opportunity.

 

in the near future DEC seems to be making efforts to work with landowners, QDM co-ops, and other deer interested groups to stream line their data collection efforts to get more and better data.  this is huge.  I can see this leading to less man power/funding to collect data with more funding left to go toward something else.  also if they push to get better data they'd be allowed to see actual data and trending better.  the "painted picture" of the deer herd won't be lagging behind the actual deer herd situation so much.

 

they're more open to see results of landowners managing the deer on their own land.  as well as improving the data portion of their management tasks.  seems logical and the exact opposite of a "cart ahead of the horse" direction.

[dbHunterNY]

Absolutely. The lead in meat campaign should come from the DOH. Total crap.

I wish hunters could think this chit out and push back. Around 50mill a year in NY hunting licenses... Don't you wonder where it goes and what you should get back?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

yea after the seminar Hurst kind of acknowledged that we've been consuming deer that were killed with lead bullets for a long time now.  I think it's definitely something someone else like DOH should be tasked with.  Hurst definitely expressed concern for lead shot game being consumed by raptors and other smaller animals.  That I do think falls under DEC watch and can't fault them there.